RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker?

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RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker?

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RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 12/24/2005 2:54:26 PM

mitsu

Posts: 42
Joined: 9/7/2005
Status: offline

"Another theory I have is that F's between 20-40 may be preoccupied with rearing children whether single or married. Hence, from what I've seen here, the propensity of real DOMs seem to be between the ages of 42-54. This is a time they have matured as women and it also is a time they are more emancipated from the demands of motherhood."

Although I agree with you, cloudboy, that life experience does help to develop a refined and developed dominance, this is the most offensive post I've ever read. You're saying that women of childbearing age are more concerned with "rearing children" than their own personal (but not professional?) lives, and that professional doms have only a financial interest in lifestyle. I am a professional. I am also a student. Money is not my primary concern, but it does help me pay for my studies, which are very important for me. I have a deep love for dominance, submission, and am a "lifestyle" masochist. I know many people who are both kinky AND parents. I don't know any pro doms who are what you called "reguar."
It's hard to find compatible play partners. It's hard to find true dominants. But a professional session doesn't have to be topping from the bottom - unless all CONSENSUAL bdsm play involves topping from the bottom, since the sub is always agreeing to get something out of it that she/he wants: the experience of submission.

(in reply to michaelGA)

Post #: 21

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 12/26/2005 6:25:50 AM

mistressravyn

Posts: 2
Joined: 12/9/2005
Status: offline

I am glad to see someone other than Myself was offended by this "cloudboy". Thank you for your words of truth mitsu. I, however, feel compelled to add My .02 worth.

I am a Pro Domme but I am not the average. I am single, 33 yrs old with NO children therefore I am NOT more preoccupied with "child-rearing" than with my work. I do not advertise to be anything I am not. I say up-front in My ad here on collerme that I expect a tribute and I say why. I describe Myself exactly as I am (not height/weight proportionate) and I get contacted at least 20 times per day! I do not offer sexual favors therefore I do NOT consider Myself a prostitute!

As far as topping from the bottom goes, the men and women who choose to serve Me are required to divulge all of their interests, fetishes, fantasies AND their limits before I even begin sessions with them. Is it not the duty of ALL dominants out there whether pro or not to respect the limits of their subs? If so, then if what cloudboy has said is true, are not ALL subs topping from the bottom then?

One more thing, yes I am a PRO and I am mighty proud to be one and NO ONE is going to make Me feel less than human because I have chosen this as My lifestyle AND career!

(in reply to mitsu)

Post #: 22

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 12/26/2005 1:12:14 PM

tasha_tart

Posts: 139
Joined: 2/20/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistressravyn

One more thing, yes I am a PRO and I am mighty proud to be one and NO ONE is going to make Me feel less than human because I have chosen this as My lifestyle AND career!

On the contrary; more people should aspire to support themselves doing something they love.

Tasha

_____________________________

My Own Little Vanity Site

"Sex without love is an empty experience. But as empty experiences go, it's one of the better ones."...Woody Allen

(in reply to mistressravyn)

Post #: 23

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 12/26/2005 8:42:50 PM

mitsu

Posts: 42
Joined: 9/7/2005
Status: offline

Yes, tasha_tart! I just wanted to add that I see no inherent ethical problem with prostitution, and while distinguishing pro domination from prostitution, I don't mean to offend any prostitutes out there who love their jobs and do them well! Yes, s/m is sexual, and although there are legal definitions of sex, we all know that they do not encompass the vast range of objects and activities that bring sexual feelings to different people. There are many jobs in which people put themselves at risk, physically and mentally, for money, and people who take these jobs solely to make money or gain power are considered whores. I think that I can speak for many pro doms when I say that I don't consider myself a whore.

(in reply to tasha_tart)

Post #: 24

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 12/27/2005 12:05:43 AM

kc692

Posts: 672
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: McWhips

Technically speaking, asking money in exchange for sexual services is prostitution.

I have not looked at the forums for a little while, and when I look, some of the same people are still on the same subject...I have not read ahead, so this is probably answered, but since when is it assumed or expected that Pro Dommes give sexual services?

edited for a typo...

< Message edited by kc692 -- 12/27/2005 12:06:28 AM >

(in reply to McWhips)

Post #: 25

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 12/27/2005 5:26:59 AM

JohnWarren

Posts: 1931
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: McWhips

Technically speaking, asking money in exchange for sexual services is prostitution.

Since professional domination is legal in areas where prostitution is illegal, this means it's not prostitution.

_____________________________

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www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to McWhips)

Post #: 26

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 12/27/2005 5:51:35 AM

RumpusParable

Posts: 82
Joined: 7/7/2005
Status: offline

In reference to whether it's always pro-dommiing:

There is a difference between someone who is a pro-dom and someone who is a dom and receives monitary or other tributes/gifts -it's the same one that makes the difference between a prostitute or escort and someone you're dating or married to.

In both cases, one person may be the primary giver of gifts and/or income, but the social relationship is different.

In reference to whether there's a problem:

I see no problem with it under either a pro or non-pro understanding.

If one is seeing a professional, there's a business deal there of some sort... as long as both parties are in agreement, I don't see anything negative there.

If one is not seeing a professional and this is a non-business relationship, whatever contributions to their shared interests each is willing and wanting to put in is between them... if it were hiking we were speaking of, would it be a pro question if one person bought the share waterfilter or tent? Again, as long as everyone in the arrangement is okay with it, I don't see anything negative there.

< Message edited by RumpusParable -- 12/27/2005 5:59:08 AM >

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 27

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 12/27/2005 9:51:11 PM

DarkDove

Posts: 20
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Tennessee
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Women who accept money to dominate are not dominant b/c they are being topped from the bottom. The controlling element here is the money from the sub (or client) going to the PRO DOM. Put another way, whoever pays the piper calls the tune. I don't think PRO DOMS are hookers, but, they are making money by enabling a client to achieve his or her own sexual/sensual fantasy. Clearly this is very close to what hookers do.

--cloudboy

I have to disagree with this statement. I am considering going Pro Dom myself. I do not now nor will I ever cater to a submissive. I dont think that most Pro Doms do either. Usually it is understood that she runs the show and does not take requests for clothing, scenes etc. It is just a matter of the client finding the Dom that suits him/her best.

On that note of catering to a submissive. If I became a Pro Dom I would make sure that I got to know my clients. I would want to know exactly what kinks they were into.. what buttons to push.. how to manipulate and twist their fetishes and desires to use them to my own advantage. I do this with my slaves I dont see it as catering to them I see it as knowing their weaknesses and as a form of control.

Dark Goddess

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 28

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 12/28/2005 8:04:11 PM

amayos

Posts: 473
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England (living in New Hampshire)
Status: offline

There simply IS no problem with it, other than what some "highly moral" individuals perceive as a problem. I receive tributes in the form of gifts from time to time, and that certainly doesn't make me a hooker (last time I checked). ^_^

We all exchange and receive tributes, gifts and money in our romantic/sexual/whatever interactions. I don't see what we do as "prostitution" at all, from either side of the fence.

(in reply to openmindedslave)

Post #: 29

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 12/29/2005 9:07:14 AM

cloudboy

Posts: 514
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

>Since professional domination is legal in areas where prostitution is illegal, this means it's not prostitution.<

So, the definition of "professional domination" depends on the legality of prostitution? So DOMS operating in Las Vegas and Amsterdam are prostitutes while those operating in less prurient states are professional business women.

Do Platonic ideals or essences play any role in your analysis?

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 30

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 12/29/2005 9:09:51 AM

cloudboy

Posts: 514
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

>You're saying that women of childbearing age are more concerned with "rearing children" than their own personal (but not professional?) lives<

No, that's what you are saying. What I said is that women with children (who have child rearing responsibilities) have less time for KINK development.

(in reply to mitsu)

Post #: 31

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 12/29/2005 10:17:49 AM

JohnWarren

Posts: 1931
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

>Since professional domination is legal in areas where prostitution is illegal, this means it's not prostitution.<

So, the definition of "professional domination" depends on the legality of prostitution? So DOMS operating in Las Vegas and Amsterdam are prostitutes while those operating in less prurient states are professional business women.

You think that prostitution is legal in Las Vegas?

What I was saying was that the law makes a clear distinction that the person I was replying to did not.

_____________________________

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www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 32

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 12/29/2005 12:18:20 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 514
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

>You think that prostitution is legal in Las Vegas? <

Mistakenly, I did. Seems I had the wrong county in mind.

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 33

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 12/29/2005 12:24:56 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 514
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

>I have to disagree with this statement. I am considering going Pro Dom myself. I do not now nor will I ever cater to a submissive. I dont think that most Pro Doms do either. Usually it is understood that she runs the show and does not take requests for clothing, scenes etc. It is just a matter of the client finding the Dom that suits him/her best. <

It seems to me that a paying client gets what he wants or shops elsewhere.

>On that note of catering to a submissive. If I became a Pro Dom I would make sure that I got to know my clients. I would want to know exactly what kinks they were into.. what buttons to push.. how to manipulate and twist their fetishes and desires to use them to my own advantage. I do this with my slaves I dont see it as catering to them I see it as knowing their weaknesses and as a form of control. <

In the end, if you become a true business woman about it, you'll figure out the ways to best maximize your income while servicing your clients. I've only had one friend go from KINK to PRO back to KINK. She said that going pro "ruined it." So, she went back to KINK. I can't say how representative her experience is of others.

(in reply to DarkDove)

Post #: 34

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 12/29/2005 1:25:01 PM

DarkDove

Posts: 20
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Tennessee
Status: offline

Ultimately what they want is for us to be in control. They want us to push their limits, to delve into their minds and show them things about themselves that they didnt even know were there. I dont feel I cater to my slaves in the least, they are there to serve me and please me if they get confused and think that I am there to entertain/amuse them I remind them of their place if the persist they are dismissed. If I go Pro that will hold true for clients as well. They come to me because I am a Domme and they wish to serve me if they are there for any other reason I would suggest they find someone else.

Dark Goddess

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 35

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 12/29/2005 3:31:40 PM

Foibey

Posts: 54
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline

Excuse me, I'm feeling wordy and I've got my pro-sex-work-feminist hat on.

The legal arguments are fuzzy. There're places where professional domination involving isn't considered "prostitution", with the sole exception of cases which include watersports or scat play (no really!). Laws vary from place to place around the world, and many of them are wrong or stupid.

Personally it'd seem pretty clear to me that a large number (the vast majority I'd guess) of clients of professional doms are handing over cash because they get off sexually on what is going on - on some level, a sexual service is being bought.

I think one of the major issues appears to be the stigmatisation and perceived disempowerment of "hookers", implicitly suggesting that the dom is lowering themselves by taking on subs for tribute because the vast majority believe people who fuck for cash are somehow lowering themselves and connect the two professions by their provision of a sexually-related service. I think in answering the title question it's probably vital to question what exactly it's asking. It really sounds like "hooker" is being used as a social symbol, cause prodoms clearly aren't the same thing as prostitutes whatever connections there may be between the professions, and if it's just a social symbol for someone debased and demeaned then the original poster probably has some personal issues around sex work they have to think about and deal with.

oh, and:

quote:

The controlling element here is the money from the sub (or client) going to the PRO DOM.

WTF? The prices pros command, and then get to tell clients how they're going to be spending the time? There's a huge amount of variety amongst prodoms and some aren't dominant, and are doing it out of necessity. A whole load of other ones are doing it because it's a job they love and they're in a situation where they can do it.

< Message edited by Foibey -- 12/29/2005 3:37:50 PM >

(in reply to DarkDove)

Post #: 36

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 12/30/2005 7:19:59 PM

AAkasha

Posts: 960
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

>I have to disagree with this statement. I am considering going Pro Dom myself. I do not now nor will I ever cater to a submissive. I dont think that most Pro Doms do either. Usually it is understood that she runs the show and does not take requests for clothing, scenes etc. It is just a matter of the client finding the Dom that suits him/her best. <

It seems to me that a paying client gets what he wants or shops elsewhere.

>On that note of catering to a submissive. If I became a Pro Dom I would make sure that I got to know my clients. I would want to know exactly what kinks they were into.. what buttons to push.. how to manipulate and twist their fetishes and desires to use them to my own advantage. I do this with my slaves I dont see it as catering to them I see it as knowing their weaknesses and as a form of control. <

In the end, if you become a true business woman about it, you'll figure out the ways to best maximize your income while servicing your clients. I've only had one friend go from KINK to PRO back to KINK. She said that going pro "ruined it." So, she went back to KINK. I can't say how representative her experience is of others.

There are plenty of pros that have so much demand they can pick and choose their clients, as well as charge a premium. Why? Because they are exceptional at what they do. What makes them exceptional? Because they offer a service that contains real power exchange, they aren't just saying "give me a list of what you want me to do to you." Submissives that seek an excpetional domination session and are willing to pay a premium seek out femdoms that are talented at getting into their head and making the experience mindblowing by actually taking control.

There are plenty of subs that have gone to "paddle pay for play" and leave unhappy because they don't feel they've really had a power exchange experience. They will happily pay double for something real.

Not all pro femdoms do sessions as their only source of income. They have the luxury of screening clients and maybe taking one client out of ten. They have the luxury of telling a sub "I won't dominate you for any amount of cash because you just want me to do x,y and z. Go down the street for that."

Several years back I did a lot of phone sessions. People asked me if I felt like it wasn't real (I also dominated men on the phone for my *own* pleasure a lot, and paid the phone bill myself) and I said no -- because if I didn't feel a good connection with the sub and he wasn't really submitting for *me* I would end the call, not charge him and wait for the next one. There was no shortage of men wanting to sub for me -- for a fee. I turned down more than half. Why? I didn't need the money. I did it for fun for the most part, or to help pay for expensive bondage toys and it meant I wouldn't have to wait as long. If all the men that wanted to sub to me on a given night were just giving me a laundry list, I'd say screw it, I don't need your money -- there are plenty of phone dommes that will just say back to you what you want to hear.

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha'sWeb - All original femdom erotica and articles since 1995
http://www.akashaweb.com
AUDIO TRAINING Starts Feb. 22!** Relationship Help

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 37

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 12/31/2005 1:05:15 AM

DarkDove

Posts: 20
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Tennessee
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

There are plenty of pros that have so much demand they can pick and choose their clients, as well as charge a premium. Why? Because they are exceptional at what they do. What makes them exceptional? Because they offer a service that contains real power exchange, they aren't just saying "give me a list of what you want me to do to you." Submissives that seek an excpetional domination session and are willing to pay a premium seek out femdoms that are talented at getting into their head and making the experience mindblowing by actually taking control.

There are plenty of subs that have gone to "paddle pay for play" and leave unhappy because they don't feel they've really had a power exchange experience. They will happily pay double for something real.

Not all pro femdoms do sessions as their only source of income. They have the luxury of screening clients and maybe taking one client out of ten. They have the luxury of telling a sub "I won't dominate you for any amount of cash because you just want me to do x,y and z. Go down the street for that."

Several years back I did a lot of phone sessions. People asked me if I felt like it wasn't real (I also dominated men on the phone for my *own* pleasure a lot, and paid the phone bill myself) and I said no -- because if I didn't feel a good connection with the sub and he wasn't really submitting for *me* I would end the call, not charge him and wait for the next one. There was no shortage of men wanting to sub for me -- for a fee. I turned down more than half. Why? I didn't need the money. I did it for fun for the most part, or to help pay for expensive bondage toys and it meant I wouldn't have to wait as long. If all the men that wanted to sub to me on a given night were just giving me a laundry list, I'd say screw it, I don't need your money -- there are plenty of phone dommes that will just say back to you what you want to hear.

Akasha

Nothing new to add just wanted to say Im a fan AAkasha.
Dark Goddess

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 38

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 12/31/2005 8:19:06 AM

planomaid

Posts: 2
Joined: 10/4/2004
Status: offline

I think a lot of people get too involved in the pay-for-sex debate. To some sex is an extremely intimate and loving act that should NEVER be cheapened by equating it to a businss transaction. Others think it is immoral, some believe it is demeaning to women, while many others find it to be a source of income or just a better alternative to masturbation. Usually a person will fit somewhere within that definition.

Personally I don't see anything wrong with prostitution. I wouldn't (or have in 39 yrs) used one myself because of my own reasons. But what happens between two consenting adults is their business and none of mine. That being said, I also don't see anything wrong with imposing some limits on it. There are areas that it does not belong in, and certain, ah, "advertising" activities that would be inappropriate in public areas.

I think pro-domme work is also the same. Here in TX it is illegal to fondle someone in a public venue (like the local dungeon) for pleasure. But you can smash their balls, squeeze their tits or whip them all in the name of pain and its perfectly legal. Go figure! Guess the politicians who wrote the law didn't take that into consideration!

I have a number of friends who are pro's. Some enjoy the lifestyle so much that it spills over into their personal lives. And like every other business endeavor they see an ebb and flow of business. Sometimes its great, sometimes its extremely slow. There can be a rash of competition, and people who price their services lower than you in an attempt to get more market share. And others who just put on a black leather skirt and call theirself a dominatrix and have not a clue in the world about what they are doing. These women are a danger to their clients and can sometimes cause headaches for other women in the same area by veiling prostitution with domination.

As to the comments about topping from the bottom, or the mistress doing/wearing what the client asked for. Hmm, how to answer that in a relatively PC-way. Oh, hell, I'm not PC very often so why bother? :) Obviously if you are a business person, and your business happens to be domination, you must cater to your customers needs and demands ~ to a certain extent ~ or they will go elsewhere. Now, if you are in high demand or a sole provider, then like every other business you can ratchet up your rates and/or impose other rules on your customers until you are at the level of business you desire. Of course, if you are in a competitive market, then you may find yourself running specials or putting out extra advertising to get more business. I think a prodomme should run her business like other small business people do. It's very hand's on and you work to make sure your customers are happy. I don't really understand those women (and the rare man) who let reality and fantasy get all mixed up. But, to each their own, and if that is the way they choose to life their life then I wish them all the luck in the world at being happy and successful.

(in reply to DarkDove)

Post #: 39

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 1/1/2006 7:51:59 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 514
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

>There are plenty of pros that have so much demand they can pick and choose their clients, as well as charge a premium.<

Yes I'm sure your are right. I cannot think of anything more entirely depressing than this fact.

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 40

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