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New to Poly - Need Advice - 8/10/2005 8:56:21 PM   
tanarria


Posts: 8
Joined: 1/5/2005
From: tana
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I'm new to the poly lifestyle, but not new to the idea. My Master and I have spoken about being poly for years. With our long distance relationship (he in FL, me in PA), we were waiting until living together (soon, I hope!) until building our family. We have always both had other play partners, always casual, until recently.

I met a local man who is poly, lives with his primary partner and has a few other partners for play, sometimes casually, sometimes not so casual. I am one of the not so casual partners. I am curious about one of his methods of poly. It seems that he will claim a night for a certain partner. For instance, he might say, "Friday is tana's night" then that will be the night I spend in his bed, but he will still play and socialize with others during the other activities, but the main focus will be on me. Is this common practice in poly for the Dominant to separate out the other members into individual "nights"? What about a "family" night where everyone is just together, enjoying everyone else's company? I feel sometimes like he segregates us, rather than builds us as a family. Again, is this common practice?

Also, how do you deal with one partner that is very selfish? One of his "friends with benefits" partners is very aggressive with going after him for attention or sexual pleasures where I am much more passive with waiting until I am asked or called to his side. He likes her aggressive nature and I have expressed to him that I won't fight her or anyone else for his attentions. Frankly, I deserve better than that! He understands that, but it seems as though I'm always on the losing side of it because he seems to turn his attentions to whomever makes the most noise for attention. I can't change my personality to be more aggressive when it comes to wanting to be with him, but I can't sit idly by either. Any suggestions on this front would also be welcome. Thank you!

tana
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RE: New to Poly - Need Advice - 8/10/2005 10:16:23 PM   
luvdragonx


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Welcome to the boards!

While many will tell you, myself included, that there are as many ways to do Poly as there are people, what's important is what YOU want out of it. If you feel that his methods and practices aren't contributing to building the cohesive family unit that you want, it's not for you. What this sounds like (to me) is an open Poly family as opposed to a closed one. The behaviors you describe don't seem to be that of a Dom who wants a happy, harmonius family. Giving the squeakiest wheel the grease, separation and indulging an aggressive partner are all sending up red flags for you. I think you have your answer as far as what you should do. There are some other posters who currently live in closed Poly families, so hopefully they will chime in soon and give you their perspectives. Good luck.

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(in reply to tanarria)
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RE: New to Poly - Need Advice - 8/11/2005 5:10:12 AM   
ShiftedJewel


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Joined: 12/2/2004
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quote:

Also, how do you deal with one partner that is very selfish? One of his "friends with benefits" partners is very aggressive with going after him for attention or sexual pleasures where I am much more passive with waiting until I am asked or called to his side. He likes her aggressive nature and I have expressed to him that I won't fight her or anyone else for his attentions. Frankly, I deserve better than that! He understands that, but it seems as though I'm always on the losing side of it because he seems to turn his attentions to whomever makes the most noise for attention. I can't change my personality to be more aggressive when it comes to wanting to be with him, but I can't sit idly by either.


As luvdragonx said, there are as many different ideas about how a poly home is run as there are colors.

In the attempt to be as non-judgemental as possible I'm going to try to speak in wide generalizations (is that a word?). From my point of view, and going on what you have told us it seems a little like he is an attention hound. That he pays the most attention, spends the most time, with the one(s) that make him feel the most wanted, desired, needed, manly, Domly... whatever you choose to call it and, again, just my opinion, it shows a lack of self-esteem and that he may have issues of insecurity. And yes, you deserve better then that. If you being the submissive that you are isn't "enough" for him then perhaps you should consider looking elsewhere... otherwise you are facing a very long and unfulfilling life with this man. You shouldn't have to ever fight for attention. We don't "deal" with a "selfish member" because we don't accept that behavior, it is detrimental to the whole group, like a weed in a garden, if we were to let one in... well, I'm sure you get the idea.

We have a closed poly family and there are times when alone time with each person involved is necessary to enforce and build that bond between two individuals. But in the same respect we also understand that we have to grow as a "family unit" as well. It is not just important that everyone get along and share in that close bond, it's necessary in order to keep a peaceful and productive household going.

I hope I have helped a little.

Jewel


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ShiftedJewel of PhoenixRisen

(in reply to tanarria)
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RE: New to Poly - Need Advice - 8/11/2005 10:19:07 AM   
ChereeAmoor


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We are in a closed triad, and there are times when 2 of us are alone together - it HAS to be that way. There are other times when all of us are together, another must. Important as well are the times when all 3 of us are totally separate from each other. This guy is not building a poly family. It seems more like he is running a hutch full of fuckbunnies. If it is Tana's Night, then that is IT - no other people need to be horning in on that.

You say, Tana, that you deserve better than that, and I agree. You are a prize, a treasure, and the whole world is full of people who would give almost anything to have your love - never never never settle for less. One of the many tricks to poly is talking, but the other half of that is listening - and it doesn't seem as if you are being listened to.

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
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RE: New to Poly - Need Advice - 8/11/2005 2:19:14 PM   
KnightofMists


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First I understand that the techniques of handling the poly relationship that is being demonstrated is by a Man that is other than your Master. You really haven't expressed much about your relationship with this man.. and frankly I don't think you need to since it is irrelevant to your question and is for your consideration not anyone elses.

now to your question... there is alot of relationships in a poly family... ever person has a relationship with every single person in the family... It is important that each relationship within the family can be constructive and positive and contribute to the Well-Being and happiness of the entire family. For that to happen, everyone in the Family will and do spend time individually with the other members in the family. It is important for this to occur so that each relationship can be nutured and grow. However, it is a balance... there indeed needs to be a good healthy amount of Family time. Activities that are group directed and builds upon all the individual relationships that exist in the house. In my opinion. The family is only as good as the weakest relationship in the house.

Now, It is important to consider the authority structure and dynamics of any particular house. In what I call the Dom Centred Poly House. You will have one individual that is the Power center in the house.. all individuals primary relationship is with the singular Dom of the house. He/She is the center of the family and functions as the decision maker within the family. Such a house will have everyone gravitate to this center point. As a person in the center the Dom does make the special efforts to ensure that each intimate member of the family will have one on one time that is intimate. The further one goes from the centre, the less intimate time this person is going to enjoy with the Dom over the course of time, and likewise, the closer to the centre the more time will be enjoyed with the Dom. This setup can be potentially very destructive when the chemistry of the house is out of balance. Meaning... That one individual is recieving much more individual time at the expense of others individual time for others of equal importance within the family. Now I express this since your comments seem to indicate that the Poly family you are witnessing seems to be of this type of structure.

You also are seeing what occurs when a particular person in such a structure is overly agressive in gaining the attention of the Dom in the centre. the danger of the structure is that an such aggressive behavior for the attention of the Dom can be reinforced and perpetuated by the very actions of the Dom. If such Dom gives the perceptions that his attention will be rewarded with the so called- squeeky wheel gets the grease - then the Dom has underminded the very foundation that he is trying to build. There is nothing wrong that Individual time is enjoyed with each and every member of the house with the Dom in the center. but it is another balance that must be maintained. So in the Dom Center Poly Family... you have at a minimum... the balance of individual relationship against the entire family. as wells at the Dom must maintain a balance between the various relatioships of the Family.

Now, assuming I am accurate in my opinion that you are describing a Dom-Centre Poly family structure. You need to assess your relative closeness to the Dom. This position comes with it expecations of interactions that you can expect or not expect. It comes with it an understanding of what needs and wants you desire to be fullfilled, but also and an appreciate of others and various closeness to the Dom Centre. From what you write, it is clear to me that you have already an appreciation of the level of closeness that various people have to this particular individual. His Primary, His not so causal and His causal play partners. He even express an understanding and preception of your own closeness to Dom and based on that you have expectations of interaction that you see as comparable to your closeness. I suspect you expect and apprieciate that the Primary will and does have more one on one time that yourself... I suspect you expect and appreiciate that causuals will have less one on one time than yourself, I suspect you expecct those you view as having a equal closeness to the Dom as yourself, would have an equal one on one time as yourself. Now the problem is when you precieve this to be out of balance. The question thou, is it is out of balance in the Eyes of the Dom.... do you precieve yourself to be closer than what the Dom actually percieves yourself to be, or possible another is closer to the Dom that you actaully precieve that person to be. Thru communication with the Dom you can appreciate a better understanding... but such an understanding needs to be consistent with the behaviors demonstrated on the part of the Dom. It could very well be that the Dom's behaviour are inconsistent than the thoughts and feelings he conveys. This type of situation is very difficult and often destructive. Another possibility is that the relative closeness that you have with the Dom is not satisfying your needs and wants in the poly situation and required a great closeness. You would need to communicate a desire for more and discover if it is possible. It could be very likely that the situation will not allow more than already exists for you... and therefore you could be very required to make a very difficult choice, but a neccessary one for your own long-term happiness

KoM

(in reply to tanarria)
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RE: New to Poly - Need Advice - 8/11/2005 4:56:12 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tanarria
Again, is this common practice?

It's "common enough." I think more relationships would work better if there were SOME clear system of how things would work and what expectations are there. For my dates I often have special weekends or dates with just one person and let my other partners know just so they know where I will be and what's going on. If I am with more than one partner I will often say "I am the boyfriends escort here" so that they know we can all be "together" but my main attentions and focus will be with him.

It shows that not only do *I* recognize the time and energy issues upon myself, but I recognize the need to communicate and clarify it with my partners so we can all enjoy our time together.

quote:


Also, how do you deal with one partner that is very selfish?

You don't.

quote:

One of his "friends with benefits" partners is very aggressive with going after him for attention or sexual pleasures where I am much more passive with waiting until I am asked or called to his side. He likes her aggressive nature and I have expressed to him that I won't fight her or anyone else for his attentions. Frankly, I deserve better than that!

Then end the relationship and find someone who works with you. The problem is not A) that someone else is aggressive and will get more attention OR B) that the dom will react to the aggression and give her attention.

The problem is C) you're not happy with that dynamic. You've communicated your preferences, he's communicated his responses. If you feel you aren't getting what you need, then you should end it. This is the same in monogamy as it is in poly.

(in reply to tanarria)
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RE: New to Poly - Need Advice - 8/11/2005 5:42:31 PM   
domtimothy46176


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This is an excellent point that I don't see made very often. Now that I've (finally) learned that I'm not capable of changing anyone other than myself, I find I'm a much happier person and my relationships run much more smoothly.
There's infinitely more happiness to be harvested from a relationship with someone who is compatible with you, as they are, than there is by attempting to change how someone talks, believes, behaves, etc.
This is one more reason why I always advise those who are looking to slow down and invest the time getting to know the entire person, rather than just the role or orientation. People are who they are and must be dealt with on that basis.
Timothy

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*DISCLAIMER* The above consitutes the thoughts, opinions and actions
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(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: New to Poly - Need Advice - 8/11/2005 6:12:15 PM   
tanarria


Posts: 8
Joined: 1/5/2005
From: tana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: luvdragonx

Welcome to the boards!

What this sounds like (to me) is an open Poly family as opposed to a closed one.


Thank you!

What is the difference between open and closed poly families? I've never heard this term before?

(in reply to luvdragonx)
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RE: New to Poly - Need Advice - 8/11/2005 6:18:10 PM   
ShiftedJewel


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We have a closed poly family... it means that no one goes outside of the household for play and/or gratification.

Jewel


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ShiftedJewel of PhoenixRisen

(in reply to tanarria)
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RE: New to Poly - Need Advice - 8/11/2005 6:18:39 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


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I also want to point out that this dom is not doing anything WRONG, the dom is not lying, the dom is not hiding, the dom is not ignoring, the dom is actually very clear in making person to person dates and keeps them.

What the other sub is not doing anything WRONG, the sub is behaving naturally to her personality, she is comfortable asking for things, she is comfortable being out and active about what she wants. I don't even feel her behavior as selfish- Tanarria hasn't mentioned her actively taking attention, or trying to subvert time away from others or being resentful of time with others.

What Tanarria is doing is not WRONG, she is behaving naturally to her personality, she is comfortable sitting back, she is comfortable being passive and quiet and wants someone to actively respond to her.

What the dominant is doing is reacting positively to an aggressive personality. That's not wrong or right, it's just how he is. It so happens that Tanarria is not an aggressive personality. This in itself is no big deal. However, combining ALL elements together is causing Tanarria to be frustrated and feel left out. How much of this is Tanarria actually not getting enough attention and how much is a problem of comparing herself to someone else? Only Tanarria can say and both end with the same result- Tanarria is unfulfilled.

One option? Someone changes their personality/responses. Tanarria could become more aggressive. This would heighten the likelihood that the dominant would respond and give more attention, it would allow Tanarria to feel like she is actively doing something in her relationship instead of being run over, and it would allow Tanarria to be in service to the dom instead of inconveniencing him and making him spend more time coaxing and being direct with her (this is certainly not the primary concern, but I think important in a Ds dynamic).

Or the Other Woman could become more passive or find a new partner to be aggressive with. This would "eliminate the competition" however, another one almost certainly would wait in the wings. Again, I have heard no specific examples of truly selfish behavior, and I think Tanarria would agree that expecting the Other Woman to change her personality is no more fair or appropriate than asking Tanarria to change her personality.

The dominant could change his responses. He could decide that his approach with Tanarria would be more served if he gave her more direct attention and that their relationship is something worth the time and energy that she would be fulfilled with. The likelihood of this is unlikely however and Tanarria would likely always have doubts that this dom wouldn't return to his old habits when another aggressive partner came around.

So what's the other option other than one or more people changing who they are? Tanarria accepts the situation for what it is and learns to be happy with it.

Another option? Tanarria accepts the situation for what it is, understands that she is not fulfilled with it and ends things on good terms and finds other relationships which DO suit her personality.

Again, I don't think anyone is doing anything WRONG here, they are simply working in a relationship as who they are, in a very open way.

(in reply to tanarria)
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RE: New to Poly - Need Advice - 8/11/2005 6:24:24 PM   
tanarria


Posts: 8
Joined: 1/5/2005
From: tana
Status: offline
quote:





From my point of view, and going on what you have told us it seems a little like he is an attention hound. That he pays the most attention, spends the most time, with the one(s) that make him feel the most wanted, desired, needed, manly, Domly... whatever you choose to call it and, again, just my opinion, it shows a lack of self-esteem and that he may have issues of insecurity. And yes, you deserve better then that. If you being the submissive that you are isn't "enough" for him then perhaps you should consider looking elsewhere... otherwise you are facing a very long and unfulfilling life with this man. You shouldn't have to ever fight for attention. We don't "deal" with a "selfish member" because we don't accept that behavior, it is detrimental to the whole group, like a weed in a garden, if we were to let one in... well, I'm sure you get the idea.
Jewel



Jewel - nice to "see" you here. I've missed you in chat....smile.

Anyway.....I do appreciate your advise. You are very perceptive based on the words I've shared. I have had similar perceptions of this man, but I am able to overlook them for the incredible excellence I've found on this side of the relationship. I can live with the short-fallings of this man (I believe we are all destined to be human and have faults, they just show in different areas....smile.) I'm not making excuses for him and I'm not saying I'm anywhere near done with what has been going on. I believe he is fairly new to the concept of poly "family" where my Master and I have been talking about our desire for a "family" concept for years. I think I have something to teach him about being in a poly family, believe it or not......however, I'm also not naieve enough to think I can change someone without their desire to want to improve an existing relationship. You know me well enough to know I won't stay in a relationship that is bad for me for very long. But I have to at least know I gave it my best shot .....the benefits can be endless.

Regards,

tana


< Message edited by tanarria -- 8/11/2005 6:27:43 PM >

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
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RE: New to Poly - Need Advice - 8/11/2005 6:33:25 PM   
ShiftedJewel


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quote:

Jewel - nice to "see" you here. I've missed you in chat....smile.


I've missed you as well tana... glad to see you finally made it to this side.... Welcome to the boards!!

Jewel


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ShiftedJewel of PhoenixRisen

(in reply to tanarria)
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RE: New to Poly - Need Advice - 8/11/2005 6:47:59 PM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 267
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From: Indiana
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First off..hi ya tana. I understand your situation and I see why you have chosen to explore this in this fashion. It sounds as if you are correct in your assumption that perhaps there is some training involved, perhaps for all involved. There really is no room for selfishness, nor is there a need. As someone else stated, there needs to be a clear understanding of the expectations of all. Not being familiar with how an open relationship would work, I can't get down to brass tacks here, but I have to assume that some things are universal. No one can expect to be the center of attention all the time, nor should the "Master" attempt to even appear like he is trying to do so. On the other hand, he should be very willing to share his time accordingly. If he seems to favor one over another, this can bring feelings into the relationship that even though suppressed, may surface and start be bring that jeolousy factor into play. It sounds to me like there simply has to be open communication among all involved and get some little things out in the open. It doesn't sound as if anything is broken at this point, but perhaps a mild tuneup may be in order. Honesty and communication is the ultimate fix to problems such as this.

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(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
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RE: New to Poly - Need Advice - 8/11/2005 6:49:19 PM   
MstrHellsFury


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You know me well enough to know I won't stay in a relationship that is bad for me for very long. But I have to at least know I gave it my best shot .....



I would have interjected my thoughts an opinions here but it is of little use as I see you've already made up your mind on a course of action...I just want to wish you well as you journey down that road...and hope you see that time clearly... when you've given it your best shot...enough said on my part...

Fury

(in reply to tanarria)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: New to Poly - Need Advice - 8/11/2005 6:50:14 PM   
tanarria


Posts: 8
Joined: 1/5/2005
From: tana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

Again, I have heard no specific examples of truly selfish behavior, and I think Tanarria would agree that expecting the Other Woman to change her personality is no more fair or appropriate than asking Tanarria to change her personality.



We go to a club together. 5 women and this man. Sat. night he will be with me at Libertine in Atlantic City. We are out to dance and have fun and allow his primary to have some fun time out and time with him before he leaves for the rest of the weekend. The agressive one spends the night hanging on him, following him around, and putting herself physically between him and the primary partner.....i know 1) it's not my place to say or do anything about it and 2) it's not my problem either...grin. 3) it's his responsibility to do something about it and 4) it's up to the primary to let her feelings be known to him and anything I involve myself in this situation will not be looked upon favorably.

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

Another option? Tanarria accepts the situation for what it is, understands that she is not fulfilled with it and ends things on good terms and finds other relationships which DO suit her personality.

Again, I don't think anyone is doing anything WRONG here, they are simply working in a relationship as who they are, in a very open way.


Okay - this is the point where I come in. I WANT to accept the situation for what it is. An agressive casual partner that feeds this man's ego and low self-esteem issues. Acknowledging I am passive and choose to be that way, rather than fight anyone for attention. I am frustrated by 2 things - My anger building when I see her acting (in my eyes) inappropriately and her seemingly lack of respect (in my eyes) for the primary relationship. The primary does have issues with it - Other friends of the primary couple have expressed their distaste with the situation and I tend to feed on their frustration as well. I am having the biggest problem putting my vicously protective nature on the shelf while I watch someone I do care about and respect deeply get trampled on - again acknowledging it is HER place to speak up and let her feelings be known, not mine.

Yes, part of this IS about me and my wish for more attention at times, but the bigger issue with thinking this through here...... is how much I have distate for someone who doesn't seem to naturally respect the primary relationship......AND even bigger, the fact that HE doesn't seem to really get it either......my problem? Not really except how *I* am allowing it to affect me....

I truly appreciate everyone's comments!

tana

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: New to Poly - Need Advice - 8/11/2005 6:58:31 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tanarria
I am having the biggest problem putting my vicously protective nature on the shelf while I watch someone I do care about and respect deeply get trampled on - again acknowledging it is HER place to speak up and let her feelings be known, not mine.

Yes, part of this IS about me and my wish for more attention at times, but the bigger issue with thinking this through here...... is how much I have distate for someone who doesn't seem to naturally respect the primary relationship......AND even bigger, the fact that HE doesn't seem to really get it either......my problem? Not really except how *I* am allowing it to affect me....

I truly appreciate everyone's comments!

tana

Who isn't respecting the relationship? The person with the aggressive personality, the dominant who accepts it, or both?

He is the one allowing his attention to be taken.

You say others have this issue...and you are absolutely right in that it's their issue to bring it up. Have you done that yet?

Otherwise your issue here is to accept the situation, and it's FINE to say that you don't want to accept it. Anger and frustration are normal reactions to have, but it's not your "fight" and again- everyones a willing partner here, that whole consent thing.

(in reply to tanarria)
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RE: New to Poly - Need Advice - 8/11/2005 9:26:58 PM   
DomButNotForgotn


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I support you in whatever path you choose to take in this situation, and I really appreciate all the posts in reply to your OP.

What does not surprise me at all is that there is come confict, some unsopoken resentment, and a minor power struggle on a poly situation.

Working through those issues is hard, whether the poly fmaily is open or closed. Listening is important, for the Dom, and frankly, I don't know how he juggles his responsibilites to his harem. Good luck.

< Message edited by DomButNotForgotn -- 8/11/2005 9:27:47 PM >

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: New to Poly - Need Advice - 8/12/2005 8:38:11 PM   
MstrHellsFury


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just knowing how much I invest in just dealing with two...no wonder there's so much drama trying to juggle five...now I have a much larger question...Why even interject yourself into a situation where so many have so little...where's the quality...where the difference in seperation of needs to be met...where's the sanity...or is this man such a godlike creature everyone just has to have even the smallest piece of him in whatever fashion...at first I felt sorrow for the situation...now I'm beginning to feel pity for all involved...call it what you will...I don't see this as poly..I see this as a very good juggling act...this is MHO ...


Fury

(in reply to tanarria)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: New to Poly - Need Advice - 11/7/2005 8:08:03 AM   
Haileypain


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I truly hate for my first post to a serious topic, be ever so slightly negative but I must agree with the other reply's above. That say, that this atmosphere is not condusive to a healthy relationship.

In my relationships all are equal in my eyes. Pitting one against the other breeds a negitive household. Not healthy. I lavish attention on all my subs equaly and place no one sub in perticular, in a higher rank then any other. They may be talented in their own ares, but all are beneath me equally.

That's not to say my style is the only style, I would never be so arrogant. But if it makes you uncomfortable, then this perhaps is the wrong family for you.

You may be a sub, but you are still a person. Complete with emotions and feelings. IMO only, a true Mistress/Master respects the gift of submission and therefore respects her/his subs emotional requirements. How can a sub serve one who she/he feels uncomfortable with. There must always be a mutual understanding.

_____________________________

Mistress in training

(in reply to MstrHellsFury)
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RE: New to Poly - Need Advice - 11/7/2005 9:41:41 AM   
princessluvme


Posts: 1
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tanarria,

The amazingly beautiful, yet complex world of poly is that there are so many variables. It is up to you to be responsible for finding the poly style that works for you. I know that can be hard for a submissive, and someone new to poly. If your needs aren't being met by your current situation, there ARE alternatives.

Ask for what you want. Stand up for yourself if you get tread upon.

Anyone, even a sumissive, poly, casual or not so, deserves to be treated with respect. That includes you, don't forget it.

(in reply to tanarria)
Profile   Post #: 20
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