RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up

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RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up

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RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/21/2005 8:19:45 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3610
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The thing is, I'm sure your mother was saying the exact same thing about your generation.

I'm not saying rules are bad, nor are standards- but rules for BEHAVIOR, not looks. I happen to think there's no reason we shouldn't allow public nudity (some people are literally most comfortable in their skin and as much as we harp on the "accept who you are and it's not looks that matters" until we make clothes optional, it's more just pretty words than meaningful statements).

As far as what parents decide, they absolutely have the right to dictate clothing to their children to a high degree. However this is again based on values, and their values aren't wrong just because they deviate greatly from yours.

Why would a boy NEED to look so outrageous? I have no idea, it may well be for that reason. But I think it's wrong to tell people they need to have the "right reasons" for looking how they want to look. What about a slave who has a breast enlargement just because the dom told her to? How many would be ok with that?

He's not doing anything to hurt anyone, he's not doing anything non-consensual, and he feels this is what he wants. It's not going to cause anyone to flunk out of school or even get a lower grade in geometry.

(in reply to ruffnecksbabygir)

Post #: 41

RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/21/2005 8:27:29 AM

siamsa24

Posts: 2052
Joined: 2/2/2004
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quote:

He's not doing anything to hurt anyone, he's not doing anything non-consensual, and he feels this is what he wants. It's not going to cause anyone to flunk out of school or even get a lower grade in geometry.

If he was suspended for wearing a trench coat I feel that may cause someone to get lower grades and that it may effect the learning process. When I was in school we were not permitted to wear coats around the building because of the panic that it could cause. My school did not have metal detectors until my senior year and it is very easy to hide a gun or other weapon in a large coat. I am not saying that this was his intent because I don't think that it was. However, I believe that if an individual's clothing causes panic or is openly offensive then it should not be permitted to be worn in school.

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Post #: 42

RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/21/2005 8:34:05 AM

EmeraldSlave2

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The entire problem with this particular situation being that he had been in school for quite awhile, with the clothing and make-up, without incident. Why suddenly they decided "enough is enough" I don't know, but it makes for a very bad precedent.

But I tend to agree with the concept that TRULY disruptive accounts should be taken care of. This is why I don't advise a student to walk in the school naked today, it WOULD cause issues. I personally don't find anything WRONG with it and hope one day that it does become acceptable, but there are reasonable grounds to walk on.

The issue tends to be finding a reasonable middle ground, which usually fails and schools end up doing extreme things like suspending 5 year old boys for trying to kiss a girl on the playground, a high school student for taking aspirin in the afternoon, or some kid for pretending a pencil is a gun in a game.

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Post #: 43

RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/21/2005 8:37:07 AM

ruffnecksbabygir

Posts: 412
Joined: 1/4/2005
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well, if an adult wants to get breast implants i don't see how that relates to a child going to school looking like a clown on crack.

Personally i think the parents are responsible, completely responsible....they allow their kids to walk out of their house looking that way and then wonder why they're outcasts. Kids, specially teens, will always try to push their limits, they will try to see how much they can get away with, if they have mature adults as parents with atleast a lil common sense, there will be some form of boundary and limits set.

Emerald slave, yes my mom & dad both said the same thing about my generation, of course....but my goodness, something just isn't right when kids can't even be safe in their own schools...i mean, when i was growing up, which really wasn't even THAT long ago, the worse that would happen to you is you'd get beat up or a wedgy! now you go to school and risk being shot to death or stabbed....i am not saying it has to do with how kids dress or wether boys wear make up or not...but over all, kids have very few limits anymore...there's a total lack of respect for authority and kids just run around with WAY too much time on their hands, no respect for themselves or others and the mentality that they need to gratify themselves first and foremost and screw everyone else...everything goes, all is relative, there is no right or wrong anymore so why should they not go on a rampage? what is there to stop them?

< Message edited by ruffnecksbabygir -- 4/21/2005 8:44:17 AM >

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:Disclaimer: The above is only this slave's opinion:

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Post #: 44

RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/21/2005 8:45:46 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3610
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffnecksbabygir

well, if an adult wants to get breast implants i don't see how that relates to a child going to school looking like a clown on crack.

The issue is we're talking about a "teen." I don't ascribe to the idea that a person is incapable of reasonable thought before 18 and then suddenly can have all reasonable thought after 18.

I think teens are generally pretty good at understanding fashion and using it how they want.

quote:

Personally i think the parents are responsible, completely responsible....they allow their kids to walk out of their house looking that way and then wonder why they're outcasts.

Hmmm who said this kid is an outcast? In a lot of places, looking like that is fairly accepted, even with an entire group of people dressing similarly.

quote:

Kids, specially teens, will always try to push their limits, they will try to see how much they can get away with, if they have mature adults as parents with atleast a lil common sense, there will be some form of boundary and limits set.

Who says there isn't here? The issue is that YOUR boundary and limits is pretty far from THEIR boundary and limits. I think this particular instance isn't anywhere near inappropriate, or even "getting away with" something.

(in reply to ruffnecksbabygir)

Post #: 45

RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/21/2005 8:56:17 AM

ruffnecksbabygir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

The issue is we're talking about a "teen." I don't ascribe to the idea that a person is incapable of reasonable thought before 18 and then suddenly can have all reasonable thought after 18.

I think teens are generally pretty good at understanding fashion and using it how they want.

Hmmm who said this kid is an outcast? In a lot of places, looking like that is fairly accepted, even with an entire group of people dressing similarly.

Who says there isn't here? The issue is that YOUR boundary and limits is pretty far from THEIR boundary and limits. I think this particular instance isn't anywhere near inappropriate, or even "getting away with" something.

I won't argue because it's obvious we have completely different ways of looking at this. I don't believe that it's a matter of MY boundary and limits compared to THEIRS, or OUR society compared to OTHERS .... i just see it as a black and white issue without so many "shades of grey" If you want to look like a freak don't complain when you're treated as such, that simple....i'm not saying that particular kid is good or bad, but bottom line, a pink mohawk and hot pink eye shadow is not, and should not, be acceptable in any school...call me crazy, but hey it's only my opinion : )

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:Disclaimer: The above is only this slave's opinion:

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Post #: 46

RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/21/2005 9:05:22 AM

EmeraldSlave2

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffnecksbabygir
If you want to look like a freak don't complain when you're treated as such, that simple....

But who complained? Again for this particular instance the big problem is that it became an issue for no reason, it had been acceptable and suddenly wasn't acceptable.

quote:

i'm not saying that particular kid is good or bad, but bottom line, a pink mohawk and hot pink eye shadow is not, and should not, be acceptable in any school...call me crazy, but hey it's only my opinion : )

Not crazy, just your values. Lots of people would have said in your generation that men with long hair should not be acceptable in any school. There's always a "line" for cultures in any particular moment in time. I wonder what our generation will consider outrageous...

(in reply to ruffnecksbabygir)

Post #: 47

RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/21/2005 9:40:10 AM

ruffnecksbabygir

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ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

But who complained? Again for this particular instance the big problem is that it became an issue for no reason, it had been acceptable and suddenly wasn't acceptable.

Who's complaining? I thought the kid & his mom are bitching about the fact that the kid was suspended from school and crying "witch hunt" .... did i misread
It had been acceptable? or maybe it was just tolerated for a while until they (the school) got fed up and decided to do something about this kid who was walking around the school looking like he was ready for a spot in the rocky horror picture show! ?

Not crazy, just your values.

hmmm, not sure what my personal values have to do with any of this...the kid was wearing a hot pink mohawk and more makeup than a hooker for crying out loud!.....how screwed up have we become that a kid showing up to school like that would seem acceptable to anyone.

< Message edited by ruffnecksbabygir -- 4/21/2005 9:42:05 AM >

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:Disclaimer: The above is only this slave's opinion:

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Post #: 48

RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/21/2005 10:13:46 AM

onceburned

Posts: 2081
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffnecksbabygir.

It had been acceptable? or maybe it was just tolerated for a while until they (the school) got fed up and decided to do something about this kid who was walking around the school looking like he was ready for a spot in the rocky horror picture show! ?

But I think that is the point. It had been acceptable, and then suddenly it was unacceptable. With no warning and no discussion.

quote:

hmmm, not sure what my personal values have to do with any of this...the kid was wearing a hot pink mohawk and more makeup than a hooker for crying out loud!.....how screwed up have we become that a kid showing up to school like that would seem acceptable to anyone.

What we write and say often incorporates our values. You very clearly are saying that the kid's appearance is unacceptable in a school setting. I am not necessarily disagreeing on that point, but I do think that the school should have handled it with more forethought and tact.

< Message edited by onceburned -- 4/21/2005 10:17:03 AM >

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Post #: 49

RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/21/2005 10:17:35 AM

EmeraldSlave2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffnecksbabygir
Who's complaining? I thought the kid & his mom are bitching about the fact that the kid was suspended from school and crying "witch hunt" .... did i misread

Well I'm sure they are against anything to do with his being suspended due to what he looks like or is wearing, but the fact is that the school accepted it for a good long while before arbitrarily deciding enough was enough.

The "witch hunt" phrase was used to denote that they were arbitrarily seeking out problems that really were NOT problems at all as an excuse- and frankly that's what it looks like the school did.

quote:

It had been acceptable? or maybe it was just tolerated for a while until they (the school) got fed up and decided to do something about this kid who was walking around the school looking like he was ready for a spot in the rocky horror picture show! ?

Well schools shouldn't get "fed up" unless there's a sudden change, which was not made mention of. If schools don't want to accept this, then they shouldn't allow it to go on and on and then decide to do something arbitrarily. What sort of values does THAT teach kids? The school made it a far worse problem by allowing it and THEN suspending him.

quote:

hmmm, not sure what my personal values have to do with any of this...the kid was wearing a hot pink mohawk and more makeup than a hooker for crying out loud!.....how screwed up have we become that a kid showing up to school like that would seem acceptable to anyone.

It's your personal values because you consider it inappropriate. I don't think it's a big deal at all.

You're calling ME crazy/screwed up now because I consider it acceptable. Frankly, if this is your measure of the world becoming "screwed up" I can't believe you're involved in "kinky S&M" at all. A far greater majority of the world would consider what YOU do to be far more dangerous and wrong than looking outrageous in school. A boy walking around school looking like a freak isn't a sign of anything except a boy who wants to look like a freak, just as in your generation a boy walking around with long hair wasn't a sign of anything except a boy walking around with long hair.

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Post #: 50

RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/21/2005 12:28:43 PM

ruffnecksbabygir

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quote:

You're calling ME crazy/screwed up now because I consider it acceptable. Frankly, if this is your measure of the world becoming "screwed up" I can't believe you're involved in "kinky S&M" at all. A far greater majority of the world would consider what YOU do to be far more dangerous and wrong than looking outrageous in school. A boy walking around school looking like a freak isn't a sign of anything except a boy who wants to look like a freak, just as in your generation a boy walking around with long hair wasn't a sign of anything except a boy walking around with long hair.

Waaaaaait a minute! i didn't call you screwed up or crazy...sorry if that's what it seemed like, i sincerely appologize for it : )

i know i am kinky and into S&M, i don't however parade around schools, churches, parks, grocery stores, etc etc etc dressed with a strap on, cuffs, spiked collar and crotchless leather jumpsuit ....that would be inappropriate, to say the least....although i AM an adult and am able to dress however i feel like, it's only a matter of common sense.

Anyhow, please don't take my last post so personally, i don't know you well enough to call you crazy or screwed up, i was speaking in general terms but doesn't mean that YOU are screwed up... i actually love reading your posts no matter HOW different we are in many aspects we have something in common, we are both opinionated as hell and don't shy away from speaking our minds.

By the way, MY generation is pretty close to yours hon, you are 25 i am 31....stop making me feel like an old fart!! lol

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Babygirl

:Disclaimer: The above is only this slave's opinion:

"And Those Who Danced Were Thought To Be Quite Insane By Those Who Could Not Hear The Music" -- Angela Monet

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 51

RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/21/2005 12:40:22 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 2326
Joined: 6/18/2004
From: Palos Verdes Estates
Status: offline

POINT of INFORMATION

I just want to interject something here for consideration. It's a subject that beth and I are at odds. Very few, if any, of us are independently wealthy and can afford to live the way we do without some kind of compromise to our personal desires in appearance. One of the reasons beth and I look forward to Folsom Street Fair so much is that for at least that day - we can strut our stuff and, in my case, not have to wear my daily business "costume". Until I get my remote BDSM B&B open I expect I'll have to continue to live this double life.

This boy needs to go through an exercise I call - "Project Out". It calls for consideration of consequences to actions or decisions. Five, ten, or even twenty years what will he be doing? Where will he work? There are just so many body piercers needed. Not everybody has the artistic talent to be a tattoo artist. The entertainment industry may be generally more accepting, but the average income of someone in the industry who has obtained a SAG card is less then the average McDonald's worker. The porn side industry has a waiting line of people wanting to "break into the business".

When I see young person needing to "express" themselves with a Kelly green mohawk, a face full of piercing, or other body modifications that can't be hidden by standard clothing I wonder if they have given consideration to their future. I hire and unfortunately have to fire people too sometimes. Appearance counts. Not just for me, but for my clients. Bill Gates wouldn't get an entry level programmers job with me if he showed up looking like this boy.

Sure, MY loss, maybe even MY prejudice; but pragmatically I can not afford the image hiring this person would project onto my business. Even in a business where he would not have to work in the public eye, I would have to make sure he was on vacation when my investors or bankers visited, or my big clients stopped by to chat. Maybe not so much here in SoCal, but in most parts of the United States it's a fact. Even in SoCal, I'm sure my conservative Banker, would raise an eyebrow and call for an audit, "just to be sure" about my decision making abilities.

The school is impotent to do anything about this. As long as we make school attendance mandatory Civil Libertarians are right in defending this boys right to dress as he prefers. If school and education was a privilege earned by adhering to rules of dress and general decorum the mandatory uniform policy can be a part of the "earned" privilege.

Do the young people adopting this look know, understand and appreciate these facts of life? Yes! I think youth is MUCH smarter then most in the older generation give them credit. Their parents allow the "look". At some point school is over and the parents tell them they need to get a job and get out of the house. They could go out every day in full regalia of green hair, and 3 pounds of metal in their face and fill out applications till the cows come home and not find one. Smart move huh? But they "tried".

Should the world be this way? The answer really is immaterial. It IS this way.

Quoting from a humor post I made today; "The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist."

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Post #: 52

RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/21/2005 1:17:36 PM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3610
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffnecksbabygir
Waaaaaait a minute! i didn't call you screwed up or crazy...sorry if that's what it seemed like, i sincerely appologize for it : )

Ahh well first you said to "Call you crazy" for your own ideas...and then you asked how screwed up we are if we accept such a thing. Since I accept such a thing, I figured you must think I am screwed up.

Though trust me, I didn't take it personally, I was just pointing out how your language worked itself out. Personally I think this is hysterical when I read your signature line- I guess you just aren't hearing that boys music?

quote:

i know i am kinky and into S&M, i don't however parade around schools, churches, parks, grocery stores, etc etc etc dressed with a strap on, cuffs, spiked collar and crotchless leather jumpsuit ....that would be inappropriate, to say the least....although i AM an adult and am able to dress however i feel like, it's only a matter of common sense.

My point was not about propriety, my point was about being screwed up. Dressing weird doesn't make someone screwed up, just because you think it's inappropriate doesn't make it so. Just as someone telling you that S&M is inappropriate doesn't make it so...they just aren't hearing your music.

quote:

By the way, MY generation is pretty close to yours hon, you are 25 i am 31....stop making me feel like an old fart!! lol

HA!

(in reply to ruffnecksbabygir)

Post #: 53

RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/21/2005 1:30:00 PM

ruffnecksbabygir

Posts: 412
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

My point was not about propriety, my point was about being screwed up. Dressing weird doesn't make someone screwed up, just because you think it's inappropriate doesn't make it so. Just as someone telling you that S&M is inappropriate doesn't make it so...they just aren't hearing your music.

Dressing weird DOES NOT make you screwed up, what i said was screwed up was not seeing anything wrong with a kid going to school wearing a hot pink mohawk and paink eye shadow and being surprised that the school would not allow it.....

I wouldn't need anyone to tell me that me S&M is inappropriate because i know where i can wear fetish, or kneel infront of my Master and i know where it is completely inappropriate to do so.....yes, i can hear the music but that doesn't mean i must play it full blast and disturb my neighbors either....

I'm not saying the kid was wrong to dress that way, but it was completely out of place to go to school looking like that...and again, i don't even blame the kid as much as i do the parents for allowing it.

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:Disclaimer: The above is only this slave's opinion:

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Post #: 54

RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/21/2005 1:58:30 PM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3610
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffnecksbabygir
i know where it is completely inappropriate to do so

I think this is the key statement here- you believe that what you consider inappropriate IS inappropriate.

Now, I'm not denying your right to decide what is or isn't inappropriate in your eyes. I'm merely pointing out that many others will disagree with you and we can't consider ourselves absolutely right or wrong when it comes to such subjective judgements.

I personally don't see why the parents are any more to "blame" when we're talking about a high school student here- they aren't dumb blocks of wood and I think they are very aware of their fashion choices and what the consequences might be. Personally I think kids who start smoking should be punished, but could care less about clothes.

Now, what have the arguments been for why outrageous dress shouldn't be allowed:

It distracts kids

Yes, but not to any significant degree which would affect learning. If you think kids geometry grades and quality of education is going to decrease because some kids are wearing outrageous outfits, I'd want to know if they had ADHD.

It's a professional place and should require professional attire.

Most people actually haven't said "professional attire" but "uniforms." If the argument is to make kids able to make their own good judgement in dress choices, uniforms defeat the purpose. If you want to suggest that kids wear "business" or "business casual" to school, I think that would be logical.

I understand that as a society there will always be certain rules within them which will contradict with my own personal values. I understand the goodness in rules and standards. I just don't understand why people get so up in arms over someone's appearance.

(in reply to ruffnecksbabygir)

Post #: 55

RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/22/2005 12:58:55 AM

Shymissa

Posts: 76
Joined: 12/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

quote:

Where did you get this data? I mean what evidence supports this claim?

RealLife
(outside this computer)

Well please take me to the green haired man's office....i would love to see it. then I can take you to 250 HR professionals that would all say that it is totally unacceptible

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Post #: 56

RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/22/2005 1:00:03 AM

Shymissa

Posts: 76
Joined: 12/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMacComb

Umm you really need to get out more. I dont know where you live but every large city has tons of punk rockers, pierced everything, tatooes, baggy clothes, almost no clothes, thongs sticking our low rise jeans and T-shirts that say everything from Fuck this to Fuck that. Other than lawyers and a few "suits" in corporate America, every one is causally dressed. Doctors wear scrubs, no lab coat. Teachers wear shorts and sandels. Police officers wear shorts and ride bikes. On and on etc.
Your version of a 'freak" is pretty judgemental. Are you here to support alternative lifestyles or just to bait others?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shymissa

Where did you get this data? I mean what evidence supports this claim? Most professions do not allow you to look like a freak. Anytime you deal with the public you have to look normal. That is how life is. Im sorry that it is like that but we live in a society and societies have rules.

There may be a lot that exist but there are a lot of autistics roaming about and we don't see them promoted to CEO too often either

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Post #: 57

RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/22/2005 3:03:26 AM

darkangel

Posts: 2339
Status: offline

quote:

There may be a lot that exist but there are a lot of autistics roaming about and we don't see them promoted to CEO too often either

Not really understanding the relevance to this comment, but willing to bite...

Autistic individuals like Donna Williams(artist/composer) and Temple Grandin(scientist) are well known for reciting their experiences of life with autism. There is also massive 'speculation' that other individuals may or may not have autism in different fields of work like doctors, scientists and yup, CEOs...

The one thing, whether true or false about these individuals being autistic individuals or not, is that they had an advanced way of interacting with other people, to other autistic individuals. (If you know anything about autism, you will understand this statement and I would recommend for people who like to learn more click HERE.) How someone dresses or how an individuals looks can be compared to autism, I am at a loss. But I am sure you will be willing to share what you meant, shymissa.

That was just my addition of useless(to some) information.

Peace and Love

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Do not scorn, or frown because I walk a different path to you...

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Post #: 58

RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/22/2005 5:47:36 AM

siamsa24

Posts: 2052
Joined: 2/2/2004
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quote:

How someone dresses or how an individuals looks can be compared to autism, I am at a loss. But I am sure you will be willing to share what you meant, shymissa.

Yeah, I don't get that part either.....

As far as people with autism go though, I worked with an autistic boy for over a year. Working with him on speech and non-verbal communication as well as the alphabet and numbers (he was 5). My personal theory on autism has been seen as odd, but after working with this boy I am even more convinced that it is closer to explaining the cause then anything else I have read.
I simply believe that individuals with autism are on a different plane of existance then the rest of hte world. That they see, feel and hear things that are beyond our sight, feeling and hearing. They have "hyper-senses," if you will.
In the time that I worked with this boy he improved by leaps and bounds. He was aware that he was different and we worked together to create a usable strategy for him to use for concentration and learning. If he could do this and be successful at the age of 5 I can only imagine what he will be able to acomplish later in life. Already he has a facination and understanding of insects that I could never hope to achieve.

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Post #: 59

RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/23/2005 5:46:15 AM

BlkTallFullfig

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire
It isn't about being a hypocrite. This country gives each and every one of us the chance to have an education for free.

Say what? Why am I paying perpetual student loan than?
Are you talking about some other country maybe? M

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