RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up

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RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up

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RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/16/2005 12:15:30 PM

siamsa24

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I couldn't find a picture of out exact uniform, but it was something similar to the one below, but with a different school emblem on the sweater.
These were the required uniform for K-12, if you were not wearing the full uniform (pants, shirt and tie for boys, skirt, knee socks or tights, polo or shirt and tie for girls with black shoes for both) then you were sent home to change. We even had strict uniforms for gym class.
Boys had to be clean shaven at all times, side burns could not extend below the ear lobes and hair could not touch the tops of their ears or the backs of their collars. Everyone's hair had to be its natural color and in a proper, conservative hairstyle. Girls were limited to one earring per ear and boys were not allowed to have any piercings at all.
There was a whole handbook for the dress code that was given out before school started and there was no excuse for not knowing what the dress code was and students were punished for violating it (believe me, you meet that paddle once and you never want to again).
Personally, I think that I developed free expression just fine. I just did it outside of school and school hours.

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< Message edited by siamsa24 -- 4/16/2005 12:16:14 PM >

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RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/18/2005 1:07:01 PM

Shymissa

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the boy has to obey by certain rules and policies. Most schools have a generic dresscode that says any clothing or makeup that is distracting to the learning process. A boy in makeup is distracting and so is a girl in too much make up. Girls cant wear a micromini to school why should a boy be able to wear make-up?
Also make-up makes him a target. The role of a principal is to ensure that all students are safe...wearign make-up to highschool is essentially aying "hit me" We have to remeber that the columbine igh school tragedy occured because two students were pushed too far this is a measure to protect this boy from the kind of scorn that causes a teen to act out so violently.
Can you, as a man wear heavey makeup to work? No, so why send the message to a child that they can. Schools prime children for society and the workplace and heavy "club" makeup has no place there.
We dont let students war swastikas to school why should we then let them wear heavy makeup?

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RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/18/2005 1:14:49 PM

MadameDahlia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shymissa

Also make-up makes him a target. The role of a principal is to ensure that all students are safe...wearign make-up to highschool is essentially aying "hit me"

Make up says "hit me"?
That's like saying that a girl who wears a short skirt is saying "Rape me".

Why would you blame the victim? No one has the right or freedom to injure another person.

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RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/18/2005 2:00:27 PM

Mercnbeth

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From: Palos Verdes Estates
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quote:

Just getting the required amount of credits and no real education....sub4hire

Most 11th and 12th graders in the system are doing just that. The State of California requires all High School students, starting with the class of 2006 to take and pass an "exit" exam before they are allowed a diploma. This exit exam tests student's "10th grade-level mathematic and english abilities". That, and the required "credits" is all one needs to be certified to graduate. Many children are already capable of Algebra I and what they consider to be 10th grade english at the end of 8th grade, however, they are left to languish in a system that teaches to the least common denominator and, at least in California, is more concerned with teaching English as a second language, then going beyond a 10th grade english education.

quote:

I thought we went to school to learn the subject matter so that we may learn the skills necessary to become a productive member of our society...MrThorns

it's a nice thought. the reality of "compulsory education" is that there is no real education to it. they should change it to "compulsory daycare" to reflect a more accurate description of what it is.

quote:

Can you, as a man wear heavey makeup to work?...Shymissa

depending on where you work, sure you can!!! not all of us are sitting at a desk in an office full of people who all dress and look the same or wear the uniform and dress code of a national fast food chain.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 4/18/2005 2:45:04 PM >

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RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/18/2005 3:22:35 PM

Shymissa

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadameDahlia

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shymissa

Also make-up makes him a target. The role of a principal is to ensure that all students are safe...wearign make-up to highschool is essentially aying "hit me"

Make up says "hit me"?
That's like saying that a girl who wears a short skirt is saying "Rape me".

Why would you blame the victim? No one has the right or freedom to injure another person.

The idea is to preent children from being a target. School aged girls shouldnt be allowed to wear short skirts and low cut tops to school because that too sends the wrong message. A school has to be a relatively uniform place so that students may learn and feel safe from persicution. When this boy is made fun of and has to sit with the guidance counsler that means there is a child with a legitimate issue not getting the opportunity to speak to someone. You cannot wear heavy make-up and short skirts to work why should you be allowed to at school? Shouldn't we teach children that there is a time and place for everything? If he wants to wear makeup let him do it after school and on weekends but it most certainly does NOT belong in the classroom.
A boy in full make-up in class is no less distracting than a teacher wearing a corset to cover their english lesson. It is uncalled for. Schools have an obligation to ensure the safety of education of the greatest number of students and the importantce of this duty outweighs the student's right to express themselves

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RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/18/2005 3:28:56 PM

Shymissa

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This is absurd. One, I never have or will work at a fast food resturant...in fact i don't even know anyone that has. THe people I know have occupations that range from Trader to web designer, Fireman to surgeon and salesperson to DA ....no one I know has ever been able to parade around at work like a freak ...sure if you sell shit on ebay from home while practicing knot-tying you may be able to get away with it but there are very few occupations that allow you this "freedom"

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Post #: 26

RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/18/2005 3:49:14 PM

darkangel

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I always have a real hard time when watching American reactions to 'goths' /'Freaks' and anyone else other than the school preppies and cheerleaders.

In the UK, we are inundated with american teen dramas/comedy/peerpressure shows and again, in the uk, I would say, it is seen as quite strange.

When I was a teen, I dressed in ra-ras, wore goth makeup and clothing, and it was unusual for a boy not to have his ear pierced, or a girl not to have something pierced!

In my childrens schools, the majority of boys have long hair, and although there is a uniform, it is still splashed with the uniqueness of each child. Baggies here, a hoody there, makeup, hair dyes.. all par the course.

England is always seen and stuffy and upper class with sexual inhibitions. Yet, place an English Brit in an American school and watch the fallout!

Doctors may not be able to wear jewellary and makeup for health reasons, so its true not all jobs will accept such. I am fortunate to be an artist... my individuality is even kind of 'expected'... but Demon is a highly respected IT expert, with mulitple facial piercings, long hair and a unique clothing style. Never effected His Work. Demons best friend worked as a forensic photographer in the Met police... no problems with His individual appearence.

Oh, and on a side note... yes kids can be cruel and played a part in columbine, but moreso... where are the parents of these children? What about the teachers? What about the pressure plagued onto kids from an early age with fundemental beliefs that tries to place people into catergories, rather than encouraging their individual skills. Oh, and not forgeting an Americans 'right to arms'.

What is it they say? Guns don't kill, people do?... hmmm... yesssssss.... sure.....

Just a thought, as it is curious how different a culture can be, especially when its goverment tries to portray nothing but advancement and superiority.

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RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/18/2005 3:54:53 PM

sub4hire

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quote:

Most 11th and 12th graders in the system are doing just that. The State of California requires all High School students, starting with the class of 2006 to take and pass an "exit" exam before they are allowed a diploma. This exit exam tests student's "10th grade-level mathematic and english abilities". That, and the required "credits" is all one needs to be certified to graduate. Many children are already capable of Algebra I and what they consider to be 10th grade english at the end of 8th grade, however, they are left to languish in a system that teaches to the least common denominator and, at least in California, is more concerned with teaching English as a second language, then going beyond a 10th grade english education.

I was in the class of 84 and I had to take an exit exam. They just change the name through the year's. My nephew graduated in 2002 he had to pass an exit exam.
In other state's they are not quite up to par just yet. Some are, some aren't. I'm not an expert on the system to know which one's are vs which ones are not. Only from personal knowledge.
I know if I had a child in Oklahoma I'd be learning to become a tutor or paying someone a hefty sum to tutor my child for me.
While doing homework with my neices and nephews it hasn't quite gotten that bad here yet.
Of course it also varies from district to district as well. Unfortunately there are no absolutes anymore.

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RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/18/2005 10:28:23 PM

MsMacComb

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I guess equality doesnt mean much to some people?
Either have all students in the US wear one style of school uniform or dont. Arbitrarily letting some kids wear one thing and other not, based on one persons ideals is NOT teaching them how our society works. Those that think that people with mohawks, tats, peircings etc arent productive members of society and gainfully employed need to get out more. The fact is all those wierdo geeks make more than most people, which includes those here. Who do you think designs your computers, new technology and many other professions?

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RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/19/2005 1:17:01 AM

Shymissa

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Where did you get this data? I mean what evidence supports this claim? Most professions do not allow you to look like a freak. Anytime you deal with the public you have to look normal. That is how life is. Im sorry that it is like that but we live in a society and societies have rules.

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RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/19/2005 1:40:21 AM

darkangel

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ummm... true, societies have rules. But then I wasn't born a robot. I was born unique... just like you. I understand your 'concept', but reality is that people are not what others want them to be. The just exist. Thats evolution, without it, we would all still be blobs in the sea or all be living to over 500 years of age, depending on which therory you subscribe to.

If you wished for what you asked for, you wouldn't be in the USA you so obviously support, which professess democracy, because what you speak of is communism, no more, no less.

Peace and Love

**typo edit

***editing AGAIN...lol... just adding without creating another post.

Demon had a look at this post as it's something that He is interested in.

He states, that societies have above anything else, expectations and preconceptions and it's those that create the 'rules' - written and unwritten. And those rules will only change when people expand their horizons and open their minds to the reality that people are individual and no one is the same. Look beyond the exterior and you will find that their are alot of beautiful and artistic goths... and alot of well dressed assholes in suits, wearing gucci.

< Message edited by dark~angel -- 4/19/2005 2:39:24 AM >

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RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/19/2005 1:43:18 AM

darkangel

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quote:

Where did you get this data? I mean what evidence supports this claim?

RealLife
(outside this computer)

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RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/19/2005 5:56:13 AM

SteeLnPet

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I think I am going to be sick...
the pure hypocrisy...
Merc, Beth, Angel, Demon- thank you for being reasonable people...

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RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/19/2005 10:28:58 PM

perverseangelic

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From: Davis, Ca
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shymissa
Can you, as a man wear heavey makeup to work? No, so why send the message to a child that they can.

We dont let students war swastikas to school why should we then let them wear heavy makeup?

Please tell me why on -earth- a man cannot wear makeup? Societal pressure?

Well, isn't it time to remove that pressure? Why do we insist that people follow arbitrary appearance codes because of their gender? It -is- pretty dang arbitrary. In other cultures, men make themselves us.

Also, yes, us tatooed and peirced people can and are gainfully employed. As tattoos and peircings and other body modifications and alterations become more prevelant, they are also becoming less stigmatized.

yes, I'm turning around on my original statement. I think I was wrong. Though I admit I think that this kid is going about things the wrong way I do not understand why we as a society place restrictions on apperance in this way.

Like it or not, school -is- a testing ground for personality. High school is probably the first time where kids have the independance and desire to test out who they are. It's a relativly safe enviorment, in that they are still dependants, and can experement with self-identity without the need to support themselves. I believe it's important to have an idea of who you are before you attempt to be independant.

Yes, I've done a lot of growing in college, but I also did a lot in high school. That's where we're figuring things out, and phsycial expession is part of that. Yes, school is also a place for getting an education, but I think part of that education is self-exploration, and yes, I think self-exploration is often tied with expermentation with personal appearance.

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RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/20/2005 12:18:27 AM

MsMacComb

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Umm you really need to get out more. I dont know where you live but every large city has tons of punk rockers, pierced everything, tatooes, baggy clothes, almost no clothes, thongs sticking our low rise jeans and T-shirts that say everything from Fuck this to Fuck that. Other than lawyers and a few "suits" in corporate America, every one is causally dressed. Doctors wear scrubs, no lab coat. Teachers wear shorts and sandels. Police officers wear shorts and ride bikes. On and on etc.
Your version of a 'freak" is pretty judgemental. Are you here to support alternative lifestyles or just to bait others?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shymissa

Where did you get this data? I mean what evidence supports this claim? Most professions do not allow you to look like a freak. Anytime you deal with the public you have to look normal. That is how life is. Im sorry that it is like that but we live in a society and societies have rules.

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RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/20/2005 2:11:54 AM

darkangel

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I really enjoyed your post, perverse... this in particular lept out at me...

quote:

Why do we insist that people follow arbitrary appearance codes because of their gender?

Really good point.
And it isn't just apperence codes because of gender, but it reaches out much further.
After all, it isn't so long ago that women were burning their bras for the rights we have today, and people riding buses for others rights. Without their strength and commitment, the world might still be an even less understanding place...

Peace and Love

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RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/20/2005 4:12:33 AM

siamsa24

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I find this to be consistant even in Ohio. I live out in the middle of nowhere, but I work a little over an hour away in the city. Around home eveyone is conservative, "proper" haircuts, light makeup (if any) and there are certain expectations. In the city, however, it's a slightly different story and the "dress code" is more flexible.
In my earlier posts I was supporting the rights of schools to have dress codes and to enforce them. I think that it is debatable whether or not this particular boy's appearence violated his dress code, but I know that even here at college there is a specific rule against wearing trench coats to class. If a clear rule was broken I believe that punishment is deserved, if there wasn't a rule and the administration feels that they need one then maybe that needs to happen.
I went to a public school for a little while and I did find it harder to concentrate. I don't think that it had everything to do with the dress codes, but I'm sure that had something to do with it. My family has never had much money and when I had a uniform it didn't matter, everyone looked the same anyway, but it makes a big difference in a public school setting. I didn't own any expensive clothes and not many clothes in general and it made a big difference in my education experience.
For my work, there are times I can kick back, but there are other times that I can't. One day I can go to work in jeans and a t-shirt, but the next day would have to wear a suit, it depends on what I am scheduled to do that day. I think that if people can show proper judement in what they choose to wear that dress codes are not needed.
I kind of got rambling there, but I believe there are many shades of gray in this discussion.

Was there a rule against wearing trench coats to class in that school? If so, then he deserved the punishment that he received. If not, then he didn't. There are rules everywhere you go, sometimes you get punished for breaking them and sometimes you don't, that's life. Sometimes I get ticketed for speeding, sometimes I don't. I know the law and it is my own fault if I break it and I can say that they discriminate because I drive a beat-up old car, or because I am young, but I still broke a law.

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RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/20/2005 12:22:13 PM

EmeraldSlave2

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If people think clothes are going to change the quality of education a student gets, they obviously are just looking for a quick easy visible "change" to point to.

I repeat again- long hair in men used to be considered scandalous, boys got sent home for it, they considered THAT a large distraction and a downfall of the next generation. Would we be so strict now? There's lots of long-haired successful males these days, and I think if you talk to any person who wears "freaky" types of clothing, they are acutely aware of how they would have to change if they wanted to fit into a certain position. They aren't ignorant.

There's always a "line" and there will always be people who push "the line" and people who think crossing "the line" is sending us all into a downfall.

The reality is that most of us are too sucked into our own issues to have one person looking a bit outrageous to change much of anything. If the kid was raised well and has a good discipline, they will get a good education, whether they are naked or in plaid.

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Post #: 38

RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/20/2005 1:28:03 PM

siamsa24

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The point of my post was more to bring up the fact that there are rules everywhere you go and if you break the rules then you have to expect a punishment (at least be aware of the fact that you may receive a punishment). Some rules are less strict then others, but they still should be obeyed because they are generally there for a reason.

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RE: Boy suspended for wearing make-up - 4/21/2005 7:33:33 AM

ruffnecksbabygir

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quote:

Why do so many people feel that school is a place for an expression of individuality? I thought we went to school to learn the subject matter so that we may learn the skills necessary to become a productive member of our society. You want to express yourself? Great! Write an essay, paint a picture, build something, be an exceptional athlete, join a theatre group, chess club...whatever.

MrThorns, never have i agreed with you on anything before, until now...

There are always those who crave attention of any form and will go to great lengths to get it, no matter how idiotic they may look.... they're not trying to be "unique" just trying hard to stick out and go against the grain....i have no problem with being creative and being "yourself", but come on now, is it really necessary to go to school looking like a freak inorder to "express your individuality"? And why would any parent in their right mind allow this nonsense? i have seen kids in my son's school, mind you he's only 9, that wear earings (7,8,9, yr old boys) that have bleached hair, their pants down to their ankles and about 10 sizes too big, and meanwhile i am thinking, at what point do their parents decide to step in?
Then they wonder what went wrong with their kid....duh.
My parents may have been a little more "uptight" than most, but, i remember not being able to wear nail polish, or makeup, or even shave my legs until i was like 14! yeah, i know that's a lil extreme, specially by today's standards, but i see 8 & 9 yr old girls walking around with makeup and red nail polish, dressed like they're ready to go clubbing, call me old fashioned, or just call me old, but i still get lil shocked when i see that sort of thing lol.
my friends daughter is 9, walks around with highlights in her hair, makeup on, and a cell phone in hand....at that age i was playing with barbie's and watching captain kangaroo! yeah, i know times have changed! i'll end my rant here. : )

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