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poly versus monogamy


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poly versus monogamy - 4/21/2005 2:41:24 PM   
ShiftedJewel


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Ok, this topic has probably been beat to death before, but I'm old and as my sisters t-shirt says, my brain is low on RAM. lol

I've been thinking about this for a long time... How many people have been in a monogamous relationship that just didn't work out? No particular reason, it just failed. And of those people that have experienced that, how many of them eventually found themselves in another monogamous relationship? Some have done it several times before finding the "perfect" place for themselves. Some are still looking. And I don't have any figures on it, but would guess, going by the population increases, that very few tried it once, it sucked, and they never tried it again.

I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, (it just comes naturally to me.... ok, that was bad, sorry) I just want to show you how silly it sounds to me. No, I am not saying that everyone should rush out and jump into a poly relationship either. I fully understand that it just isn't for everyone, and that's ok. But to judge the intire genre based on one bad experience isn't fair either. That's like saying you dated a guy in high school whose breath could make bricks crumble therefore the intire male population must be in dire need of mouthwash. It's rediculous.

If the idea of poly makes you uncomfortable, if you found no fulfillment in a poly relationship, if your partner is the end all, be all of your world and you see no reason to have others involved in it, great! So be it and to hell with anyone that says your wrong. But please don't base your opinions solely on the one try in a relationship where everyone got jealous of everyone else, or someone lied or was manipulative... those things happen in monogamous relationships too.

Just food for thought, that's all.

Jewel

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RE: poly versus monogamy - 4/21/2005 6:02:28 PM   
ScooterTrash


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From: Indiana
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Nodz to SJ, is so true. You hear the stories of "I tried it once and it just didn't work out" so they close the door on poly. It would be interesting if everyone also did that with mono relationships...the world would be full of singles...hmmm. Good point, no it's not for everyone but then again, one try does not make it all bad, either of them.

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RE: poly versus monogamy - 4/21/2005 8:12:32 PM   
stormsfate


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I have nothing against either, and obviously am very happy with our current dynamic, but in thinking back over my life and the people I have known, I can't imagine trusting any previous partner enough to be in a poly relationship with them.


best regards,
fate

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RE: poly versus monogamy - 4/21/2005 9:04:40 PM   
gretchen


Posts: 117
Joined: 3/8/2005
From: Santiago, Chile
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I could never be in a poly relationship for two simple reasons. One: the country I'm living in (conservative, and catholic society); and Two: I'm just way too territorialistic (it might be almost pathologic).
So, I just would like to follow my preference, to prevent bad episodes of anger or competitive stress. This doesn't mean tha I didn't had bad monogamous relationships before.

In Chile and most of Latin America, is very common for the man to cheat on his partner, to cheat on his lover, to cheat on his lovers sister, etc. And chilean women are pretty much the same. Here, in the southern hemisphere, we are constantly cheating each other. So, as you can see, I had bad experiences in monogamous relationships...or maybe they were poly??

The most important reason of cheating instead of comunicating your wishes of having a poly relationship, is the presure of "what would others think of me if I manifest my desires?". Nobody wants to be stared or judged, even when your choice is valid, safe and sane, and your partner completly agrees.

I recognize that this country is totally ignorant on this matter, and on most of the aspects of BDSM...It's quite sad!


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RE: poly versus monogamy - 4/22/2005 6:54:23 AM   
PAcpllooking


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We think that when it comes to being poly you either are or you arent. Its really not something that you can learn to be.
There are not that many real poly people out there, just like there arent that many real BDSMers out there. We have tried two live ins and they didnt get past the trial periods mainly because they werent who they said they were.
On an interesting note, we see more men put in their profile they are poly. The funny thing is that what we have seen is its the men who cant really handle it as well as the women.

William

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RE: poly versus monogamy - 4/22/2005 7:10:22 PM   
Kwix


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My sub and I are as devoted in a monogamous relationship as you can get. That having been said, poly is/has definately been on our plate for a while, but finding the right "fit" in a person is difficult. Just as dating 2,3,15 times to find the perfect "one" takes time, finding the "other one" can take even longer as you are now looking for the perfect person for TWO people.

My $.02USD

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RE: poly versus monogamy - 4/24/2005 2:08:18 AM   
Emmmrld


Posts: 55
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From: Las Vegas, Nevada
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This is a long time debated topic, that I do enjoy talking about, mainly because I am looking for more ways to further understand myself as well as others in the lifestyle.

I think that the biggest problem with the term poly is that people use different definitions for that word. If we all use a different set of schema to define the term poly relationship then communication amongst ourselves becomes strained and breaks down. Couple that with people trying to discover who they are, when they know they do not fit into mainstream societal definitions of a sexual being, I think they grab onto partial concepts or what they perceive to be truths with out fully thinking about what it is that they want and are saying. For instance the term intimacy is often confused with sex.

That being said I would like to define the terms I am choosing to use so that those reading can follow along.

Intimate/Intimacy: Merriam-Webster defines this to be - 1) to make known especially publically or formally 2) to communicate delicately and indirectly. In other words, this is a close relationship with another person which may not involve sexual intercourse or stimulation on any level. Intamacy can happen through deep conversations, an understanding, or shared moments. Intimacy can happen between a variety of relationships - friends, lovers, or even family members.

Sexual or Sexual Relationship: Persons engaging in activities to bring one another to satisfy sexually or bring to climax.

Polyamourous Relationships (poly for short): This term means to me that more than two persons (does not matter the gender) are engaged in a relationship (sexual or intimate) with another person(s).

Monogomous Relationships (mono for short): Persons who are in engaged in a relationship with one partner.

Swinging (swing for short): Sexual encounters which generally happen with coupled partners who swap partners for an evening of sexual encounters. May or may not have re-occuring encounters with the person in either the same night or on other occassions.

Open relationship: This term is really a very vague term that should be defined by those who wish to participate in such a relationship.


The common misconception I think I see/hear with people who are discussing relationships, trying to get to know one another is that they throw out terms, make assumptions but do not define the meanings to the terms they use.

I think that men hear the term poly and think that it is a way to be able to be with more than one woman, which is not the societal norm. The problem with this is that often times (both through observation and perosnal experience) they do not think about the responsibilities that come with being a poly partner requires huge amounts of communication, responsibility and time.

"I don't share well" ... The common analogy I've heard from many of my poly friends about poly relationships is that it is like a family situation. Parents who have more than one child love all of their children equally - just in different ways because each child is different.

I have found that it is rare to meet someone who has been able to make a poly relationshp work. I would say that was because of the lack of communication and ability to make each person in the relationship feel as though they have a place to be. Using the parenting analagy - my parents have both done their best to spend time with us as a family unit as well as with each child to develop those bonds with us individually. Sure there were times that I felt my brother got more attention than me, as my brother has said the same in return. Those are NATURAL feelings that we experience. However, my parents always tried to be mindful of this and always tried to plan accordingly. For instance if my brother spent time with my dad camping, my mother would do something fun with me.

Now, the interesting thing to this is that there are two persons who can distribute the attention to make each person feel special. I've often speculated if poly works best/most successful where there is a couple, who are secure in a relationship with themselves but do not have matching kinks. I think of some friends of mine who he is a male dom who is VERY happily married to a woman who as it turns out is a domme as well. They have shared that they tried to sub to the other only to find out that was not their kink. They both have submissives. While they do play outside of their relationships with their submissives, to my knowledge their sexual relationships are only with each other and their respective subs. One of the subs is a married woman whose husband is not kinky at all. Again, they are happily married, but do not have matching kinks. I have yet another friend who is married and involved with poly partnerships.

The one common thing that all the couples that I have referenced is that they took the time to build a strong foundation with one another, communicate and continue to communicate to make it work. Often times I have met men that from the start of the relationship want to engage in various types of poly relationships - from intimate to sexual, rather than build a strong relationship where that c/would come later down the road.

I've had many poly people in my time try to explain poly life to me in that way. Yet they do not want to stop and hear my definitions for terms, what I am looking for only hear that I am mono and then try to "convert" me. This drives me completely insane. They do not like people not knowing/understanding their way of life but seem to lack the same courtesy. It mainly comes when I state that I would like to build a relationship with someone and not be poly or state that I'm mono. I do not see anything wrong with wanting to build a solid foundation in a relationship before inviting others in.

Another misconception I've run accross is that if you play a scene once with more than one person that you are some how deemed poly. NOOO. Have people missed the concept of fantasy fullfillment? Fantasies do not mean that is how you want your relationship to be all the time.

Trust and communication are not things that just happen in a relationship. These are things that are built over time, through actions and words. I've heard that "oh you don't trust me", well if you can't be straight with me, can't tell me you are seeing someone, can't communicate what it is you WANT to be doing with me or another, then why should I trust you? Because you are dominant and say to? Reality is that it doesn't matter if you are in a relationship that involves swinging, poly, open, bdsm or other trust and communication must happen for it to be successful and fullfilling. Trust and communication can only happen when all partners in the relationship are dedicated to understanding their partner (regarless of their chosen role) and working towards making the relationship work.

ALL relationships take work. Poly and open ones taking more work than mono relationships, in my opinion because there are more personalities and dynamics involved in making it successful. Too often I have noticed that those claiming to be poly rarely have their own life in control. I often wonder how the hell they think they are going to engage in a poly relationship that engages in controlling others when they can't maintain everyday life responsibilities.

For me personally, I am mono in my relationships. I am open to having open or poly relationships however, I would really like to find someone who is willing to spend some time in focusing their attention on me and not trying to spread it between others. To me it is critical that when you are building a relationship that you actually spend time doing so and not spread yourself thin focussing on too many different things. Sure I have fantasies that involve more than one person and would love to enjoy those but that doesn't mean that I want to do that every Friday night. ;)

I think for the poly communities to be better understood by those that are more mono in relationships there should be some deeper understanding that while it is perfectly ok for poly folks to be poly, it is also ok for mon folks to be mono. :) Maybe the approach should be one of trying to educate, but listen to a persons concerns and experiences before passing judgement that they do not understand the poly lifestyle. Also, I think that educating people on terms of use with in poly communities needs to happen. There are far to many people thinking poly means one night stand, harem, ok to cheat on my wife and it does not.


Cheers!

~Emerald

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RE: poly versus monogamy - 4/24/2005 7:39:57 AM   
chainedgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash

Nodz to SJ, is so true. You hear the stories of "I tried it once and it just didn't work out" so they close the door on poly. It would be interesting if everyone also did that with mono relationships...the world would be full of singles...hmmm. Good point, no it's not for everyone but then again, one try does not make it all bad, either of them.


The reason most people try something (albeit half heartedly) and then decide it isn't for them, is basically that they feel society's pressure to conform more than others. i think the number of bdsm couples who seek repeatedly for the right "one" to join them is testament to the fact that we are already accepting we are outside society's "norm".


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RE: poly versus monogamy - 4/28/2005 6:39:31 PM   
ScooterTrash


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From: Indiana
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quote:

I think of some friends of mine who he is a male dom who is VERY happily married to a woman who as it turns out is a domme as well. They have shared that they tried to sub to the other only to find out that was not their kink. They both have submissives. While they do play outside of their relationships with their submissives, to my knowledge their sexual relationships are only with each other and their respective subs.
Gee, I wonder why this sounds so familiar..lol. Yes this is our situation for the most part, not exactly, but close and although it is somewhat of a different dynamic than what most see, as with one Dom/me and multiple subs, we feel it works extremely well for us. In some ways it seems to be easier to manage, but that's just my opinion.
quote:

The one common thing that all the couples that I have referenced is that they took the time to build a strong foundation with one another, communicate and continue to communicate to make it work.
All I can say to that is I believe that is the key to any relationship, especially poly.

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RE: poly versus monogamy - 5/1/2005 6:54:06 AM   
rockh4


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I hear people say "communicate" quite often... it seems to me that what is actually needed is honesty and simply Honoring each other. Be direct. Be honest. Be respectful of the other person's identity and self. Doing these things leads to effective communications. Not doing them is often the reason commincations fail.

So, keep your secrets if you must, just don't lie or misrepresent anything about them.

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RE: poly versus monogamy - 5/1/2005 7:53:03 AM   
ShiftedJewel


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Joined: 12/2/2004
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quote:

The reason most people try something (albeit half heartedly) and then decide it isn't for them, is basically that they feel society's pressure to conform more than others. i think the number of bdsm couples who seek repeatedly for the right "one" to join them is testament to the fact that we are already accepting we are outside society's "norm".


That is sooooooooo true. As someone else said, on a different post, sorry, but I can't remember who it was... if we were all raised around poly households it would be consider normal even by society.

quote:

I hear people say "communicate" quite often... it seems to me that what is actually needed is honesty and simply Honoring each other. Be direct. Be honest. Be respectful of the other person's identity and self. Doing these things leads to effective communications. Not doing them is often the reason commincations fail.

So, keep your secrets if you must, just don't lie or misrepresent anything about them.


Excellent point and true wisdom.

Jewel




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RE: poly versus monogamy - 5/1/2005 3:55:10 PM   
ansfrid


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gretchen
I could never be in a poly relationship for two simple reasons. One: the country I'm living in (conservative, and catholic society); and Two: I'm just way too territorialistic (it might be almost pathologic).

I'll give you point #2. Some people just are. If you feeling up to it, you may want to explore why you feel that way, but on the other hand, maybe you just do, and no one can deny that to you if you are honest about it. As to point #1 though, the only way I could agree with it is if you would face actual persecution as a result. If so, then absolutely, you need to look out for your safety, but otherwise, why not challenge that system (yes I know point #2, you may not feel the need to challenge it, but I would put this to anyone that subscribes only to point #1). Many social changes only came from people challenging the status quote, including racial rights, women's rights, gay rights, they all come from someone standing up to the conventions that have settled on society. It's not particularly accepted here in Canada or the US either, but I choose to stand in the face of the winds of opposition, because I feel it is right for me.
quote:

In Chile and most of Latin America, is very common for the man to cheat on his partner, to cheat on his lover, to cheat on his lovers sister, etc. And chilean women are pretty much the same. Here, in the southern hemisphere, we are constantly cheating each other.

This is better than poly?

Don't get me wrong, if monogamy is best for you, then everyone should wish you all the best, and much happiness. However, cheating is preferable to multiple relationships bred in honesty?

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RE: poly versus monogamy - 5/2/2005 6:53:53 AM   
SmilinFSub


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I don't believe humans are monogamous by nature. If we are growing spiritually and intelluctually I believe we grow sexually as well with the passage of time.

Most humans either cheat or think about cheating. I think polys are among the most authentic creatures on the planet. I am not poly yet but if the right situation showed up, however, COUNT ME IN.

;)

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RE: poly versus monogamy - 5/2/2005 7:36:00 AM   
ShiftedJewel


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Hello SmilinFSub and welcome to the boards and hiya neighbor!

I honestly wish I could say that I don't believe that most humans either cheat or think about it, but I think you may be right. I know of a few that have never considered it. For my husband and I, it isn't an issue. We both know that if we meet someone that we would really like to "play" with it's a simple case of talking to the other and letting them know. Our theory is that being open and honest about it takes the thrill out of it.

quote:

I don't believe humans are monogamous by nature.


I completely agree, monogamy is society based. It's what we (generic "we") were raised to strive for, the "perfect" 2.5 kids the "perfect" one on one marriage. Poly isn't the first to challenge that and I'm sure it won't be the last.

Jewel

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RE: poly versus monogamy - 5/2/2005 6:47:33 PM   
gretchen


Posts: 117
Joined: 3/8/2005
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ansfrid

quote:

ORIGINAL: gretchen

In Chile and most of Latin America, is very common for the man to cheat on his partner, to cheat on his lover, to cheat on his lovers sister, etc. And chilean women are pretty much the same. Here, in the southern hemisphere, we are constantly cheating each other.


This is better than poly?

Don't get me wrong, if monogamy is best for you, then everyone should wish you all the best, and much happiness. However, cheating is preferable to multiple relationships bred in honesty?



Well...I was thinking there that maybe a polyamorous culture in this country would end all the misunderstoods in every relationship with tendencies to cheat. I really wasn't posting to say that cheating and lying is better that a consensual poly agreement. I think that if polyamorous relationships had a better reputation here, and people's mind a little bit more of tolerance, it could be the best way of handling the stress that some couples have, because of the constant untrust they feel for each other.

Sorry if it looked like I was making a disaproval judgement. It was absolutely not my intention. I grew speaking spanish, so english can be a little tricky for me sometimes. Just sharing my experiences and thoughts on this. I'm not trying to get people upset.

< Message edited by gretchen -- 5/2/2005 6:49:12 PM >

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RE: poly versus monogamy - 5/4/2005 8:09:26 AM   
SmilinFSub


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Heya Jewel...

I have an American friend who married a Korean man. He is the oldest in his family and the couple is divorcing bc he needs to carry on his family's name w/ a Korean woman.

OK....Americans have this ideal of 2.5 kids and the white fence. I believe the ideal, however, is commercially generated and it not out of tradition or genuine desire. Most of us 'go with the flow,' and don't think about how brainwashed we are.

Poly could stop the spread of discontent and STDs, I believe.

gr8 day!

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RE: poly versus monogamy - 5/30/2005 4:11:00 PM   
FangsNfeet


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I'm just to jealous to poly or swing. Though I may allow it I would still be a little jealous with the idea of my pet even getting a massage from someone else male or female. To have a session from someone else I would have to watch the entire time. Sex with someone else is an unbarable thought. As for me being with someone else, well just because we both have are meals dosen't mean we can't keep checking out the menu but that's as far as it goes. And my pet is enough for me to handle as it is anyways.

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RE: poly versus monogamy - 6/4/2005 6:52:13 PM   
synrgy33


Posts: 50
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emmmrld


Sure I have fantasies that involve more than one person and would love to enjoy those but that doesn't mean that I want to do that every Friday night. ;)

I

Cheers!

~Emerald





I have to admit I am poly curious.. well I wouldn't even say that, more of an open relationship type curious. My Dominant is into Open relationships and I freely admit and have from the get go I don't share well with others. Now having said that. If we're at a play party or what not, and Sir pulls out His floggers and He's fantastic at them *bragging here* and a submissive wants to be flogged. (Hopefully she would ask me if I minded and in the end the decision is His and His alone) but I would be all for it. I love to sit back and watch my Sir flogg others. It's beautiful not only to feel when I'm on the recieving end but to watch. I don't understand poly relationships and how they all work. It doesn't mean I'm for them or against them, they're just something I don't totally understand. My Sir has over and over explained things to me about His thoughts on the subject and I totally understand what He is saying, it still just confuses me, LOL. I admit sometimes I come up with the short brick in the stack. LOL. I hope though that with my non understanding that I continue to ask questions to further my education on a topic that holds great interst for me.

My qualms stem from having low self esteem. With that mindset of mono relationships.. I will use He and me as in general not specifics to my relationship persay. "If *He* loves *me* then why aren't *I* enough? If He needs another submissive, what's wrong with me. If He needs to have sex with another, what am I doing wrong. Etc. Low self esteem. *laughs* but I think many of us who don't understand poly/open relationships think along these same lines. I won't say all but some, as I try never to speak for others.

syn~SD~

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RE: poly versus monogamy - 6/4/2005 6:57:48 PM   
synrgy33


Posts: 50
Joined: 4/4/2005
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OOps, I cut her post for a reason and then forgot to respond on it.. LOLOL...
Okay so here's Emeralds post again.. LOL...


quote:

ORIGINAL: Emmmrld


Sure I have fantasies that involve more than one person and would love to enjoy those but that doesn't mean that I want to do that every Friday night. ;)

I

Cheers!

~Emerald


What I was going to say regarding this is the last relationship I was in, he wanted a swingers type of relationship which I was okay with as we were both involved. But it was something he wanted ALLLLLL THE TIME!!!! COME ON! LOL. It grew boring after awhile. Mostly because the couples were more interested in me then him and he was rather very pushy about things, and so then we'd or he'd argue with me about it afterwards. He never understood that I'm sorry I have standards, and I'm not going to just jump into bed with everyone either male or female. He felt that every person he chated with we should meet then go have sex with. LOL.. Okay I'm slutty but NOT that desperate or slutty. *s*

:)

syn~SD~

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RE: poly versus monogamy - 6/5/2005 11:18:56 PM   
shay


Posts: 61
Joined: 11/15/2004
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~grins to Mistress ShiftedJewel (and yes i have the right to call Her that)~

Never give up, never give in, and never say never. i have tried poly three times now, and each has been a "learning experience". Each time i walked away saying never again. Each time i have wound up drawn back to polyamory relationships. Is it because of the D/s in our lifestyle? Is it because i want a M/s relationship so much? Or could it just be i am a bisexual female who loves taking care of Others? i honestly dont know.

But i refuse to give up, refuse to give in. i believe the right poly relationship exists out there for me. Two who wish the love and devotion i have to offer. Hopefully Two who enjoy a good scene, a good romp in bed and being loved.

Thanks for the wonderful post, from one who loves You truly, always will.
shay

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