RE: Do you need to be numb to survive in a poly relationship? (Full Version)

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EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Do you need to be numb to survive in a poly relationship? (10/20/2005 4:58:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrHellsFury
if I respond to this with..there's always an exception to everything...does this make me insecure...do I now have to consider myself as being generalized....am I no longer unique....I guess I'm just a number...guess I'll take a seat now and wait...

Fury

Even Jesus Christ doubted and worried if he was doing the right thing sometimes.



DrkAngl -> RE: Do you need to be numb to survive in a poly relationship? (10/20/2005 5:31:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenxx

Most victims of abuse find it nearly impossible to leave. To say suck it up, get over it, stop snivelling etc.. etc.. shows a lack or understanding of the basics of abuse.


That is very true. It took my late husband pulling out the butcher knife to make me realize he wasn't interested in getting help and that life around the house was getting very dangerous for me and my son. I'd left him twice already, but was suckered into the "I'll do better" routine, like most women are. Not to mention the fact it was my first marriage and I tried like hell to get things working.

Abuse can and usually does turn ugly very quickly and I speak from 2 1/2 years of experience from that end. If he's doing this now, what's next? It never gets better, only gets worse. And if this guy REALLY cared, he'd treat the person he cared for with far greater respect and understanding.

The only reason I survived is because I got mad enough to fight back and refused to be pushed around. It's been 11 years now and I've still not fully healed mentally from all that crap. I still don't trust most men. The sooner one gets out of a relationship like that, the better.



Soulhuntre -> RE: Do you need to be numb to survive in a poly relationship? (10/21/2005 12:41:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: softsilkandlace
He tells me he only does them to "get my goat". And that after a while I will get numb to them and it won't bother me. I questioned him tonight that if he knows it hurts me and bothers me why does he choose to continue to do it?

I questioned myself," Is this how I am to be trained to deal with my emotions?" I am a very sensitive and emotional person and can easily be brought to tears (could be menopause?).


There have been a lot of posts here that leap from this line onto the "abuse" bandwagon. Because apparently in this modern world anything that isn't happiness, sweetness and light couldn't possibly be just unpleasant anymore - it has to be "abuse".

My immediate comments below are not directed to the OP but rather to the fairly long "abuse" bandwagon that followed it.

<rant>
Heres the dirty little secret modern society, feuled on Oprah and Dr. Phil, seems to have forgotten. You can largely control your emotions, instead of walking through life like an open wound. If emotions where TRULY out of our controlt hen therapy and anger management would be utter failures as concepts... instead of borderline failures :)

Hell... there was a time when people who couldn't handle stress or adversity looked upon this inability as the problem it was and tried to fix it - now they applaud themselves for being "sensitive" and demand that anyone who doesn't help shelter them be considered evil.

It is, quite frankly, baffling to me.

I am of couse also baffled by how easily total strangers seem to feel comfortable in tellign another total stranger that their partner is abusive (a very serious concept) based on a sum total "case file" of 10-12 sentances that only encopass a trivial portion of only one side of a story.
</rant>

As to your specific situation it may be good or it may be bad - but I doubt seriously it rises to the level of "abuse". But hey, I know people who consider depriving a submissive of a orgasm for more than a week emotionally abusive so clearly my concept of "abuse" and the onepeople toss around so casually these days are out of sync.

I can't speak to whether his method will be effective for you or not. I do know that the technique absolutely can be effective. It isn't a matter of becoming numb as you simply beginning to recognize the symptoms of an inappropriate emotional state and control, divert or correct it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: softsilkandlace
It makes me question myself it I am cut our (or wired as some put it) to be in a poly relationship irreguardless of how much I love both of them.


It's possible you aren't. It may be that your emotions are out of your control (what you call sensative) to the point where youw ill nto be able to handle the stress of a poly relationship. That doesn't make you a bad person, and itsure as hell doesn't make this guy an abuser.



sunshine333 -> RE: Do you need to be numb to survive in a poly relationship? (10/21/2005 4:11:58 AM)

Soulhuntre,
just wanted to back you up. i'm completely on board with all that you said about the abuse bandwagon. it seems to popping up on every other thread. i (or you) should have started a whole new thread about this. i think it's that important.

the problem is this: the little boy who cried wolf.

there are plenty of "real" abusive situations out there and plenty of women who need help escaping them. i think we're doing those women an injustice by calling unpleasantries "abuse". those women need to be taken seriously.

and i agree with you, once again, Soulhuntre about how quickly and without knowing the whole story people make assumptions and give advise. i realize that sometimes we (humans) can't help but to project our own experiences and references on other people's situations. and, of course, we have the best intentions. i just think there's gotta be a more constructive way to be helpful.

just my humble opinion.
~sunshine



taliaTW -> RE: Do you need to be numb to survive in a poly relationship? (10/21/2005 3:31:09 PM)

I've read this entire thread three times now. I am new to the list but this topic is an on-going issue for me. I am married and I live in a poly relationship. My husband and I took his slave of two years and moved her into our home over 5 years ago. It has NOT been an easy road for any of us.

To give some background, I maintain my marriage, but also have a relationship with my own Dominant long distance, meeting about 12 times a year for a weekend and a few weeks during the summer. It was intended for the four of us to have a poly relationship in both life and in lifestyle, however, due to insecurities, jealousy, and the nasty word "emotions", it hasn't been come to pass yet.

I see similarities in the words of the writer and the words of my husband's slave. She also feels he does things to bother her or hurt her just to get her goat. That couldn't be farther from the truth. He is attempting to give her the tools to manage her emotions and grow to the point she can handle a poly relationship. She has an immense amount of attn and time from him, quality time, where she is shown that she is special. Yet she still feels that we dont love her or care about her because he is trying to teach her to grow and thrive in her submission, which is what she claims to want.

A dominant can only do so much to "help" his bottom. If he tries to "help" her, by not doing the things that will make her grow or bail, he is not the dominant, she is.

I wish you well.
talia



softsilkandlace -> RE: Do you need to be numb to survive in a poly relationship? (10/21/2005 6:19:29 PM)

Thank each of you for your comments, opinions and suggestions. The relationship is very dynamic and it is very difficult to explain all in a short thread. Again, I thank all who took the time to read and respond. I will keep your comments, opinions and suggestions in mind.



domtimothy46176 -> RE: Do you need to be numb to survive in a poly relationship? (10/21/2005 6:28:40 PM)

Thank you talia for opening the door. I have been in just such a situation with a submissive. I once invested 4 years in a young submissive, attempting to teach her that there were other factors in life besides her feelings. Soulhuntre nailed it when he referred to the way modern society seems to have lost touch with some basic realities.
Feelings are an internal state, based on perceptions. Allowing oneself to be ruled by emotions handicaps one's native intelligence. We all feel unappreciated, unloved, unwelcome, unneccessary at times and it may have absolutely nothing to do with the external reality. It's great to "feel" wanted, but I would much rather be shown how much I'm appreciated by concrete actions designed to fulfill my needs.
I tease my current girl all the time, despite the fact that she hates it. I will continue to do so until such time as she learns to take life and herself less seriously. She will either learn the lesson I'm trying to teach her or she'll continue to be unhappy with the teasing, the choice is hers. Part of my job is helping her become a more fulfilled person and increasing her ability to serve me as I prefer to be served. Those adjustments won't always be enjoyable but she agreed to them when she became mine.
We tend to see more posts dealing with how folks feel than those dealing with how best to fulfill our respective commitments. Doesn't that seem a bit odd? Perhaps the original poster might do better to ask, "What are some tips for maintaining my composure and remaining pleasing to master when he's in the mood to 'get my goat'?"
Timothy



sunshine333 -> RE: Do you need to be numb to survive in a poly relationship? (10/22/2005 3:49:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: domtimothy46176

Thank you talia for opening the door. I have been in just such a situation with a submissive. I once invested 4 years in a young submissive, attempting to teach her that there were other factors in life besides her feelings. Soulhuntre nailed it when he referred to the way modern society seems to have lost touch with some basic realities.
Feelings are an internal state, based on perceptions. Allowing oneself to be ruled by emotions handicaps one's native intelligence. We all feel unappreciated, unloved, unwelcome, unneccessary at times and it may have absolutely nothing to do with the external reality. It's great to "feel" wanted, but I would much rather be shown how much I'm appreciated by concrete actions designed to fulfill my needs.
I tease my current girl all the time, despite the fact that she hates it. I will continue to do so until such time as she learns to take life and herself less seriously. She will either learn the lesson I'm trying to teach her or she'll continue to be unhappy with the teasing, the choice is hers. Part of my job is helping her become a more fulfilled person and increasing her ability to serve me as I prefer to be served. Those adjustments won't always be enjoyable but she agreed to them when she became mine.
We tend to see more posts dealing with how folks feel than those dealing with how best to fulfill our respective commitments. Doesn't that seem a bit odd? Perhaps the original poster might do better to ask, "What are some tips for maintaining my composure and remaining pleasing to master when he's in the mood to 'get my goat'?"
Timothy




sunshine333 -> RE: Do you need to be numb to survive in a poly relationship? (10/22/2005 4:00:19 AM)

oops ... was trying to quote only the last line of that post ... about rephrasing the question.

"What are some tips for maintaining my composure and remaining pleasing to master when he's in the mood to 'get my goat'?"


anyway ... good point Timothy. and something i've been battling with since i began in this lifestyle. i (and i'm sure i'm not alone in this) constantly fight the urge to want to adjust a relationship to suit my needs ... forgetting my place. i have to remind myself at those difficult times ... "be pleasing ... be pleasing ..."

there is a special kind of humility in slavery ... that when kept healthy and non-resentful ... allows a slave to gratefully accept what she is given. it's a hard path sometimes ... and i've only had short glimpses at that goal ... but that letting go is one of the freedoms in slavery.

humbly,
sunshine



domtimothy46176 -> RE: Do you need to be numb to survive in a poly relationship? (10/22/2005 8:54:12 PM)

I think it must be excruciatingly difficult to make one's desires subordinate to those of another. I have the greatest respect for those who can do so. As much as I believe myself to be disciplined and controlled in my actions and reactions, I simply can't fathom the amount of self-discipline a pleasing slave must possess.
Timothy



DrkAngl -> RE: Do you need to be numb to survive in a poly relationship? (10/23/2005 11:06:52 AM)

Learning to control ones emotions is easy enough for some and with a lot of work. For me, it just came naturally I suppose, but the topic of abuse is something I shall forever be emotional about due to being victum at one time. I refuse to ever be so again.

Meditation can help one get a grip on things, so to speak, if that's what you want. To me though, someone else trying to do that by taunting you, that's plain right out mean and in my opinion does more harm that good. It's not a way to teach someone how to control emotions, but that's my style and my beliefs. Whatever works for whomever. For me, this is what works.

Talking to the other, making a list on what they want to work on. There are ways to do it without the verbal abuse. Too much verbal abuse can make a person apathetic. Apathy is not a good thing.




BuxomGoddess -> RE: Do you need to be numb to survive in a poly relationship? (10/24/2005 12:33:40 AM)

No, you do not need to be numb in a poly relationship. I've been in them for over 20 years, and they are about mutual respect, trust and love. You can and should be ultra sensitive to your own and everyone else's emotions. Everyone else in the relationship should also be very supportive, sensitive and emotionally tuned in. Poly relationships have added dimensions that make communication, reassurance and self reflection even more important. Being emotionally "numb" for any reason is dangerous for you and your relationships, poly or not. My definition of a Master is someone secure enough to assure me of my position, who has no need to make me feel jealous. One poster said her 16 year old tries to "get her goat" and i would rank that as typical albeit inappropriate behaviour for a teenager, not an adult and certainly not a Leader or Dom; They are held to a much higher standard in my world. i have to wonder why a girl doesn't intrinsicly know this is not okay.



misstyger -> RE: Do you need to be numb to survive in a poly relationship? (10/25/2005 8:27:29 PM)

I am a secondary. Playing on your insecurities is cruel. He should be doing his best to alleviate your fears, not compound them. Poly relationships create more insecurity than regular relationships and they have to be handled differently for them to survive. Please read my blog. It is specifically for secondaries. It contains my philosphy about poly and I can tell you now, your Master is breaking rules not only on a poly front, but also from my bdsm point of view. www.polygrrl.blogspot.com



phoenixMF -> RE: Do you need to be numb to survive in a poly relationship? (10/28/2005 8:54:16 PM)

Hi Silk,
I've read your post a few times... I see 2 issues here... not one. The first issue is this man saying mean things to you for kicks... the second issue is if you are cut out for a poly relationship. Unless you like him doing that in some masochist way... leave. He knows it's making you suffer and doesn't care... if he cared, he would stop doing it.

This man and his childish tormenting of you, has nothing to do with you being able to live in a poly family. Actually, the fact that you are identifying a problem, have brought it up to this man for discussion, are taking your time to get other opinions from experienced people who have been in poly families and that you are giving it a lot of thought, and not having a knee-jerk reaction.... tells me that YOU ARE cut out to be in a poly family....

just not in THAT poly family.

I'm also wondering... what types of comments are you talking about? Are they horribly offensive? or just playful jabs? How hurtful are they? Can you please give us one or two examples, so we can get a clearer read on the situation you presented us with?

If you don't feel comfortable sharing that with us.... that's ok. No biggie.

Just a tip: If you have zero reaction to his jabs, he'll stop doing them after awhile.
~ phoenixMF



seaMist -> RE: Do you need to be numb to survive in a poly relationship? (10/28/2005 10:05:28 PM)

Greetings softsilkandlace,

Poly can be something that is beautiful and it should be. It should not be something that makes you cry or for the people involved to intentionally try and upset you. That is abuse no matter how you look at it. While you can honestly care and love one or both of them, the thing you must consider is it healthy for you to in this situation? Being submissive or even slave does not mean one must accept everything thrown your way just because someone says.
A poly relationship should be complete and open communication, trust and commitment from each individual involved. There should never be someone “trying to get your goat” or make you numb. That is just nonsense and bs if you ask me.
If you asked him why he deliberately hurts you and he still continues then I would seriously consider what your options would be. This does not sound like a healthy relationship for yourself and at this time I think that is the person you need to be most concerned with since obviously he isn’t.

Just my two cents worth,

seaMist_Kah’s



anopheles -> RE: Do you need to be numb to survive in a poly relationship? (10/29/2005 6:55:12 PM)

If you have to be numb to be in a poly relationship, aren't you missing the beauty of it? Especially if you are the 3rd member to a relationship that was already established.....



kisshou -> RE: Do you need to be numb to survive in a poly relationship? (10/30/2005 2:55:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domtimothy46176

Thank you talia for opening the door. I have been in just such a situation with a submissive. I once invested 4 years in a young submissive, attempting to teach her that there were other factors in life besides her feelings. Soulhuntre nailed it when he referred to the way modern society seems to have lost touch with some basic realities.
Feelings are an internal state, based on perceptions. Allowing oneself to be ruled by emotions handicaps one's native intelligence. We all feel unappreciated, unloved, unwelcome, unneccessary at times and it may have absolutely nothing to do with the external reality. It's great to "feel" wanted, but I would much rather be shown how much I'm appreciated by concrete actions designed to fulfill my needs.
I tease my current girl all the time, despite the fact that she hates it. I will continue to do so until such time as she learns to take life and herself less seriously. She will either learn the lesson I'm trying to teach her or she'll continue to be unhappy with the teasing, the choice is hers. Part of my job is helping her become a more fulfilled person and increasing her ability to serve me as I prefer to be served. Those adjustments won't always be enjoyable but she agreed to them when she became mine.
We tend to see more posts dealing with how folks feel than those dealing with how best to fulfill our respective commitments. Doesn't that seem a bit odd? Perhaps the original poster might do better to ask, "What are some tips for maintaining my composure and remaining pleasing to master when he's in the mood to 'get my goat'?"
Timothy


domtimothy,

these are incredibly wise words and one of the best posts I have ever read on the forums. Not only does it point out what the mindset should be but it also reminds everyone that there is always two ways to view any situation. A person can choose to view something as either a positive or a negative (glass half full or half empty).Too many people forget how short life can be and waste alot of time in their precious life by dwelling on the negative. Maybe they are unconsciously trying to control every aspect of a relationship hoping to make it "perfect". Since that perfection is unobtainable dissastisfaction sets in.

thanks again for the awesome post

kiss



lovingmaster45 -> RE: Do you need to be numb to survive in a poly relationship? (10/30/2005 5:37:02 AM)

I agree with MrDiscipline4
quote:

I also think that you're 48 years old, not 3. You shouldn't have to be taught how to deal with your emotions, you should know how to by now and deal with them. Especially if you've been in the relationship for two years!! He has shown both consistancy and stability. If you can't get past your emotional crutches you'll never be able to stand on your own two feet in the relationship.


I would NEVER take on an emotional cripple in a poly environment. It is bad enough when it is one-on-one dealing with a woman who has "issues"; dealing with one who is as old as you who still has not figured it all out is tiring and just not worth the effort.

Harsh yes; but just calling it like I see it; and I see a lot of "crippled" older sub male and female.



domtimothy46176 -> RE: Do you need to be numb to survive in a poly relationship? (10/30/2005 6:57:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou

domtimothy,

these are incredibly wise words and one of the best posts I have ever read on the forums. Not only does it point out what the mindset should be but it also reminds everyone that there is always two ways to view any situation. A person can choose to view something as either a positive or a negative (glass half full or half empty).Too many people forget how short life can be and waste alot of time in their precious life by dwelling on the negative. Maybe they are unconsciously trying to control every aspect of a relationship hoping to make it "perfect". Since that perfection is unobtainable dissastisfaction sets in.

thanks again for the awesome post

kiss



kisshou,

I've run into that "perfection" trap many times. I think it's common enough to be considered a part of the human condition. I, myself, have sometimes fallen into the trap of thinking, "Everything is good, yes, but if I could just get her to do *blank*, everything would be perfect." Luckily, I either catch myself or have it pointed out to me before it becomes destructive.
No matter what else I may be, I'm still prone to the shortcomings of being a mortal man. I am less than perfect and always will be. I can have the best of intentions and still be perceived as an insensitive ass. My perceptions of others' behaviors and motivations will always be fallible and subject to error.
All any of us can do is try to remember that we're only seeing the end result and not neccessarily the motivation. None of us would fare well if all of our actions were interpreted from the viewpoint of having malevolent motivations and we don't serve our own best interests by assuming the same of others.
As difficult as it may sometimes be, I try to give others the benefit of the doubt until such time as they show me that they aren't worthy of my time and effort. I don't believe myself to be an optimist as much as a realist. Folks make mistakes but most try to do a reasonably good job, given decent incentives. While it's easy to see the bad in people, if that's what you're looking for, the good is also there if you remain open to the possibility of finding it.
Timothy



Belladonna82 -> RE: Do you need to be numb to survive in a poly relationship? (11/1/2005 2:29:31 PM)

Numb? Naww...but you have to have your emotions in check....There is always a chance of being hurt in poly.....but its a chance many are willing to take....i have taken the chance and so far nothing bad has happened...yet....but its a chance ......just think hard about it before you beg for the collar....cause once its on....The only one with the power to take it off is the Master...and he might not want to let you go....in Gorean ways....a slave is a slave until sold,traded,or freed..and that rarely happens......so good luck and hold your heart in tight cause it likes to run away if given a chance...that the curse of being human.......



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