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Bdsm and spirituality? - 7/27/2005 8:31:30 PM

leatherylace

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How does Bdsm fit in with spirituality?

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RE: Bdsm and spirituality? - 7/27/2005 8:34:28 PM

Kinkypupper

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It does very much so.

It just does not fit in with "religion"

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RE: Bdsm and spirituality? - 7/27/2005 8:35:12 PM

IronBear

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There have been numerous sects in various religions who believe in the mortification of the flesh to release the true spirit… Not my path and it probably wouldn’t be considered true BDSM but a group using BDSM techniques..

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RE: Bdsm and spirituality? - 7/27/2005 8:37:27 PM

quietkitten

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I don't think spirituality and religion are the same.
Considering that everyone's spirituality is unique to them, I don't believe there is a concise answer to this question.

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RE: Bdsm and spirituality? - 7/27/2005 8:38:36 PM

IronBear

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kinkypupper

It does very much so.

It just does not fit in with "religion"

Care to expand on that Kinky? I'm genuinly curious about this?

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RE: Bdsm and spirituality? - 7/27/2005 8:56:19 PM

perverseangelic

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I find it fits in pretty well with my religion :)

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RE: Bdsm and spirituality? - 7/27/2005 9:16:59 PM

onceburned

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Raven Kaldera, who is a dom and writing from a neo-Pagan perspective, has given this a lot of thought:

quote:

I've found that spiritual BDSM can be broken down into three major areas. I work with all three. They are:

1) Using carefully applied pain in a specific ritual context in order to bring the bottom into an altered state by using their own endorphins, and thus bring them closer to Spirit.
<snip>
2) Using intense psychological theater in a ritual context to create a personally-tailored emotional ordeal for the bottom, whereby they travel to the dark places in themselves and come out safely, and having learned useful things in the process.
<snip>
3) Using full-time serious D/s as a spiritual path.
<snip>
I would say that the theme of the point where my sexuality and my spirituality cross is one of redemption. The monster in my psychic basement is awesome. Turning his every tainted desire and drive and need into something useful, something that serves others, something that serves the Spirit, and yet gets that monster's needs met adequately, that's the challenge that drives and structures my entire life, not just my sex life.

http://www.sensuoussadie.com/articles/ravencalderaordealpath.htm

Edit:
BTW, even though Raven uses pagan imagery and examples I think what he describes is fully transferable to Christianity.

< Message edited by onceburned -- 7/27/2005 9:24:26 PM >

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RE: Bdsm and spirituality? - 7/27/2005 9:49:58 PM

EmeraldSlave2

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bdsm spirituality???

Reposted from this thread:
My spirituality is very deep within me, and is related to all things, including BDSM. However, my spirituality has nothing particularly to do WITH bdsm and would remain the same even if I never was into bdsm.

SOme people do turn bdsm into a spiritual experience, even a religious type of life, based on how they feel and what they do. For me, it's just who I am.

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RE: Bdsm and spirituality? - 7/27/2005 9:56:23 PM

BittersweetLila

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I find my true Self by way of submission. Ultimately to God, and sexually to the one I submit myself to on this earth and agree to call Master. It is through submission that I find the deepest sexual and spiritual power.

Lila

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RE: Bdsm and spirituality? - 7/27/2005 10:10:01 PM

Padriag

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leatherylace

How does Bdsm fit in with spirituality?

I really can't answer this as I don't consider myself a spiritual person, but I'm very intrigued by how others view it and what spirituality means to them. Its a term I've frequently been mystified by since many seem to have their own very personal definitions of it.

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RE: Bdsm and spirituality? - 7/28/2005 3:48:09 AM

LadyShoshin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leatherylace

How does Bdsm fit in with spirituality?

I have been studying Shamanism and energy (Chi/Ki/Prana) work for many years now, while my shamanic teacher wondered at first how I could balance my shamanic ethics and being a Dominant, she now understands that Shamans work within their own community, as I work within the BDSM community. I am here for anyone needing my specific skills, but am respectful of other belief (or non-belief) systems. There are times when I use my energy healing skills during a scene, but only if Creator and my guide indicate it is necessary.

Do I hear voices? Yes, but none telling me to go to a clocktower with a rifle. *LOL*

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RE: Bdsm and spirituality? - 7/28/2005 5:32:38 AM

tinkJH

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It has no effect on me. It has, however effected Master. Or, at least his religion has, what he was raised with as a child. Some of the things he tells me just floors me and we've had to have many talks and come to many agreements over it. He is a witness or at least was raised one but has come to develope his own views and such. I was raised Baptist but.. that part of me died a long time ago.

However, we both have respect for how we were raised and what our views are.

Personally, I don't know where I stand anymore. I am spiritual, Yes. I am not religious, I hate religion. And I think God is not more then a spoilt child standing in his room and throwing a little tantrum going "but mommy! I dont wanna clean up!"

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RE: Bdsm and spirituality? - 7/28/2005 5:49:23 AM

ElektraUkM

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Quick, initial response:

Putting complete faith in God, and putting complete faith in Master are (to me) very similar practices. (not meaning to compare Master to God! Just meaning that the practice is the same)

~ Elektra

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RE: Bdsm and spirituality? - 7/28/2005 6:25:32 AM

mossy

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quote:

Raven Kaldera:: a Dom, writing from a neo-pagan perpective.
1) Using carefully applied pain in a specific ritual context in order to bring the bottom into an altered state by using their own endorphins, and thus bring them closer to Spirit.

2) Using intense psychological theater in a ritual context to create a personally-tailored emotional ordeal for the bottom, whereby they travel to the dark places in themselves and come out safely, and having learned useful things in the process. ~~~~~~~~~~~
Turning his every tainted desire and drive and need into something useful, something that serves others, something that serves the Spirit,

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
These 2 are true, as far as how bdsm relates to spirituality for me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Add to this for me::: honesty, honor, loyalty, integrity, work, cleanliness/ inner and outer
kindness, caring, truth, selflessness, compassion, and the greatest of these is...ummm.....errr.....LOVE

i can't do all these things perfectly, thank goodness, neither will whatever Master i eventually have. Pfew...what a relief!!!

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RE: Bdsm and spirituality? - 7/28/2005 8:26:00 AM

pinkpleasures

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quote:

Raven Kaldera:: a Dom, writing from a neo-pagan perpective.
1) Using carefully applied pain in a specific ritual context in order to bring the bottom into an altered state by using their own endorphins, and thus bring them closer to Spirit.

2) Using intense psychological theater in a ritual context to create a personally-tailored emotional ordeal for the bottom, whereby they travel to the dark places in themselves and come out safely, and having learned useful things in the process. ~~~~~~~~~~~
Turning his every tainted desire and drive and need into something useful, something that serves others, something that serves the Spirit,

It doesn't appeal to me, but i respect it, Sir.

pinkpleasures

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RE: Bdsm and spirituality? - 7/28/2005 8:47:18 AM

perverseangelic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

bdsm spirituality???

Reposted from this thread:
My spirituality is very deep within me, and is related to all things, including BDSM. However, my spirituality has nothing particularly to do WITH bdsm and would remain the same even if I never was into bdsm.

SOme people do turn bdsm into a spiritual experience, even a religious type of life, based on how they feel and what they do. For me, it's just who I am.

Yes.
Both elements are independant for me, however, there is easy overlap. I find that the sex act itself can be an act of worship for me,depending on what's going on in my life. The same is true for most pain play.

However, it doesn't -have- be worshipful. I guess both just co-exist with me, and overlap as I need and my gods dictate.

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RE: Bdsm and spirituality? - 7/28/2005 9:31:41 AM

darkangel

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Yes, If you are spiritual - then BDSM melds with your spirituality really well.

And - in opposition to KinkyP - BDSM and religion are well matched also - I would love to hear how He thinks it can't.

You can be into tantra, meditation, spiritual transference, or you can be pagan, wiccan, christian or whatever religion (apart from maybe some of the celebate based ones, but even then, there are branches of BDSM that meld beautifully) - and BDSM will combine with either your spirituality or your religion and only enhance your life.

Peace and Love

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RE: Bdsm and spirituality? - 7/28/2005 9:34:16 AM

darkangel

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quote:

Personally, I don't know where I stand anymore. I am spiritual, Yes. I am not religious, I hate religion. And I think God is not more then a spoilt child standing in his room and throwing a little tantrum going "but mommy! I dont wanna clean up!"

What I want to know, is when people see the word 'religion' they automatically think a single God - there are masses of religions. Paganism, buddism, hindu - Only closed minds see one...

Peace and Love

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RE: Bdsm and spirituality? - 8/1/2005 7:59:08 PM

LadySonelle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leatherylace

How does Bdsm fit in with spirituality?

It fits nicely.

I am Episcopalian/Anglo-Catholic and My lifepartner and slave, slave k. and I attend services regularly, are on Altar Guild and attend Rosary each week.

I do not require that My slaves attend the same church as I do, but I do want them to adhere to some form of spiritual exercise or worship. It is important to their well rounded development as it is to Mine.

In specifically Christian terms, BDSM enables Me to understand to some degree, what was suffered on the Cross, or during the scourging, the sufferings of the early martyrs and saints. But understanding is not comprehension on an emotional level. I can only dimly comprehend what a Divine Being, lowered to fleshly status and suffering, must have felt when seized, whipped, pierced and hung by hands and feet!

Spirituality and BDSM can be VERY complementary!

Lady Sonelle

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RE: Bdsm and spirituality? - 8/1/2005 9:53:31 PM

Padriag

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This discussion does absolutely fascinate me. Just to offer some different perspectives from a non-spiritual point of view.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElektraUkM

Putting complete faith in God, and putting complete faith in Master are (to me) very similar practices. (not meaning to compare Master to God! Just meaning that the practice is the same)

I would never have looked at it that way, to me they are totally different things. To me, God or any other deity are unknowns vs a Master who is physically present, tangible, known, etc. I thought about that and it was actually something from the Bible that I recalled which reminded me of what I was forgetting.

quote:

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

That faith, to a person of faith, makes God tangible in the absense of tangible proof. That is, for a submissive of faith, God is as real as their Master.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mossy

Add to this for me::: honesty, honor, loyalty, integrity, work, cleanliness/ inner and outer kindness, caring, truth, selflessness, compassion,

For me these things are not spiritual, they are what I call ethics. When I say I look for ethical qualities in someone else, the above is a good shopping list of what I mean. But what is interesting to me is that you consider them spiritual qualities. If you could elaborate on that I'd be very interested in hearing your thoughts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadySonelle

I do not require that My slaves attend the same church as I do, but I do want them to adhere to some form of spiritual exercise or worship. It is important to their well rounded development as it is to Mine.

I would never require a slave to attend or not attend any sort of religious services, it something I believe should be a personal choice and it is one area of a slave's life where I will not interfere or exercise any control. But the rest of your point reminded me of something else I'd like to share which some of you might find of interest. This is from Adlerian Counselling: A Practicioner's Approach - Thomas J Sweeney (4th Ed.)

quote:

The Five Major Tasks of Life

Adler believed that everyone is confronted by at least three major life tasks: Work, Friendship, and Love. Research during the last several decades fortifies the position these are indeed central life tasks to health and well-being. In addition, Mosak and Dreikers (1967) identified a forth and fifth task only alluded to by Adler. The fourth task is dealing with one's spiritual self in relation to the universe, God, or higher power. The fifth task concerns the individua's success in coping with self as subject, I, and as object, me.

Spirituality
Spirituality only recently has become a major topic of consideration among the helping professions. There is a growing awareness that it is a part of the human condition to need and want to deal with personal existential issues. As noted in chapter 2, research is corroborating the position that spirituality is a key component to both longevity and quality of life. Until recently, it has been relegated principally to the responsibility of the clergy.

I have generally found Adlerian Psychology useful, and although I personally disagree with the importance of spirituality, I do see its importance to others. More importantly to me personally is that most of the submissives I have dealt with have been spiritual in some way, ascribed to some religious belief. While I am not spiritual, I recognize it in others and their need for it. So imagine my quandry, I'm a dominant who identifies as a Master and as such feels a responsibility to care for any slave I own, to address and ensure their needs are met... so how does a non-spiritual Master deal with the spiritual needs of a slave? This is one of the main reasons I've paid attention to this thread and the comments made in it, why I try to understand the various points of views and also why I have paid particular attention to how Adlerian Counseling deals with spirituality even if I personally disagree with it.

Thoughts, commnents, etc. are welcome and I would hope more would post their experiences, beliefs, etc. The more you know... you know?

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A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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