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Chloroform anyone? - 5/26/2005 12:07:05 AM

MdBiM41

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Joined: 3/2/2005
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I have a sub I play with from time to time who is really into the rape scene....I have heard that some in the gay community play with Chloroform for the added effect of submission...does anyone here have any real time experience with this?

I would be interested in hearing thoughts on the matter, and perhaps some private chat.

Post #: 1

RE: Chloroform anyone? - 5/26/2005 12:47:21 AM

MzBerlin

Posts: 378
Joined: 7/3/2004
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MdBiM41-
Chloroform is NOT safe. I do not doubt that some people choose to play with it, and it's probably not confined to the gay community.
When you're dealing with an inhaled substance, it's VERY difficult to regulate the amount entering the body and being absorbed by the bloodstream. There is a reason that anesthesiologists go to school to learn how to monitor chemicals that effect levels of awareness.
I am all for forced fantasy, and have even had drugging fantasies myself, but I urge you to leave this at that- a fantasy.
B

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(in reply to MdBiM41)

Post #: 2

RE: Chloroform anyone? - 5/26/2005 1:32:11 AM

darkangel

Posts: 2339
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I completely agree with Berlin - chloroform used within a scene is an extreme risk - and certainly not to be performed - even by a trained medical practioner without proper back up. It must be kept in perfect and exact conditions because although it isn't flamable - it is volitile.

Chloroform when overdosed can kill. It will react with breathing pattens and lung function - it can damage the heart, and cause liver (it is a solvent) complications.

Apart from that - chloroforms impact on the environment is enormous. It is a toxic that cannot be disposed of safely, environmentally.

On of the reasons that it is advised you don't mix chemicals in the home like detergents and bleaches is because of the risk of activating chloroform agents and people passing out and dying from inhaling the fumes or causeing small explosions.

It can't be 'watered down' because it doesn't mix with water.

Apart from the fact that if you use chloroform on another, you also risk it upon yourself by a) Becoming intoxicated yourself via the fumes and b) It can effect via absorbtion as well - so skin contact is risky.

It can cause birth defects and lower sperm count.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

Blessings

~Angel~

a belle fille violente
Do not scorn, or frown because I walk a different path to you...

(in reply to MdBiM41)

Post #: 3

RE: Chloroform anyone? - 5/27/2005 12:21:03 PM

masterforyorlove

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Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline

I have heard that chloroform is illegal to use in the state of california without proof of the certification one needs to use the drug. I would make absolutely sure that the sub has no heart or breathing conditions at all before using it. Then again, who wants to go to sleep and miss the fun of being play-raped? I don't see the point of using Chloroform.

(in reply to MdBiM41)

Post #: 4

RE: Chloroform anyone? - 5/27/2005 4:17:31 PM

proudsub

Posts: 3896
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline

quote:

Then again, who wants to go to sleep and miss the fun of being play-raped? I don't see the point of using Chloroform.

I agree, and she would never know if anything non-consensual was done to her.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

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Post #: 5

RE: Chloroform anyone? - 5/27/2005 4:25:55 PM

cutenprettypet

Posts: 5
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

i actually have a fantasy with the drug... only a fantasy. but to reply for the point of using chloroform... as a sub, it would be a great thrill to wake up tied, looking into my Master's eyes, remembering i am safe, but not knowing where or how i got there. the thrill of the unknown and waking up slowly to His voice. (i understand it is very unsafe, and i have not wanted to complete the fantasy in real life) but i wanted to share my view on the drug, and that it is the thrill it gives through the power exchange scene.

much luck and love,
cutenprettypet

(in reply to masterforyorlove)

Post #: 6

RE: Chloroform anyone? - 5/27/2005 7:15:22 PM

snmsub

Posts: 34
Joined: 3/12/2005
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Chloroform is extremely dangerous... not only is it nearly impossible to dose correctly (even under medical circumstances), it can cause severe skin burns.. it can cause a reactive vomiting which can cause a person to aspirate and die. It is VERY flammable and under the right conditions can be explosive. It is not something to play around with under any circumstances... it is never used medically in North America anymore because of its unreliable and dangerous nature. Do yourself a big favour and do NOT even consider using this extremely dangerous chemical.

(in reply to cutenprettypet)

Post #: 7

RE: Chloroform anyone? - 5/27/2005 7:37:17 PM

MsSilvie

Posts: 248
Joined: 2/4/2005
Status: offline

Do not use chloroform for play, ever. It potentially causes severe liver damage as well as skin burns. You cannot control the amount someone receives with the "rag over the face" thing like you see on TV and you are just as likely to kill someone as to knock him or her out.

Chloroform is not used in medical settings any longer due to the risks involved. There are much safer anesthetics used in modern medicine.

Chloroform is not, however, flammable. Ether is the other substance people tend to think of when they think of knocking someone out. Ether is just as dangerous as chloroform AND it's highly flammable.

Just don't mess with either of them. Some things are best left to the world of fantasy.

< Message edited by MsSilvie -- 5/27/2005 7:38:19 PM >

_____________________________

Strange thoughts beget strange deeds.

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(in reply to MdBiM41)

Post #: 8

RE: Chloroform anyone? - 5/29/2005 12:52:17 AM

FelinePersuasion

Posts: 1727
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline

Instead of cloriform you could try something that is safe to injest like when you have to drink the chalk to go night night so they can put a tube down your throat, but even that could prolly be dangerous and is only medically used.

You could learn hypnotisim if you're both into it and make her go to sleep by hypno, but hypno only works with subjects that are willing and suseptible, it's not like those gag jokes where the guy intones looooooooooooooooook intoooooooo my eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeyes you'll act like a chicken an every one starts clucken.

(in reply to MsSilvie)

Post #: 9

RE: Chloroform anyone? - 5/29/2005 6:47:15 AM

darkangel

Posts: 2339
Status: offline

Any drug during a scene is extremely dangerous. Alcholol is a extremely dangerous during a scene.

Anything that takes away the ability to use a safe word is extremely dangerous.

Even the date rape drugs have extreme side effects of sezures, choking, heart attack, breathing difficulties, vomiting and choking.

Choloform is not flammable but is explosive if not kept in the correct environment.

Hypnotism is a really good alternative if you are really into trying something that induces an altered state of mind - but remember you are messing with a persons mind and it can cause sezures if done incorrectly also. (Personally, I still wouldn't recommend)

Peace and Love

_____________________________

Blessings

~Angel~

a belle fille violente
Do not scorn, or frown because I walk a different path to you...

(in reply to FelinePersuasion)

Post #: 10

RE: Chloroform anyone? - 5/29/2005 7:56:33 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 1886
Joined: 11/3/2004
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As a mindphuck you might put a little ammonia on the rag, or strong whiskey or that really hot mustard that the chinese have..then if everything else is ambient.....that may derive the correct response....lol

Ron

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(in reply to MdBiM41)

Post #: 11

RE: Chloroform anyone? - 5/29/2005 10:57:35 AM

fourpeas

Posts: 242
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline

Weird, I definitely have drugging fantasies too. I have talked about it with my Dom, in-depth, stating that I would really be turned on by waking up in a haze and not knowing where I was, only knowing that I was safe.

I wonder if there is another thread on other methods to acheive unconsciousness that are safer? Chloroform makes me think of butterflies... :(

I remember once when I was younger, I had a babysitter who made me pass out (I know, great babysitter) but basically all she did was have me hyperventilate and then she cupped her hands over my nose and mouth. I remember it was the coolest feeling coming to and not knowing where I was.

Does that fall into "breath play" or is this just an odd experience? Has anyone else tried unconscious things like this??

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 12

RE: Chloroform anyone? - 5/29/2005 1:40:45 PM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 2933
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fourpeas
I wonder if there is another thread on other methods to acheive unconsciousness that are safer? Chloroform makes me think of butterflies... :(

My reaction to this is a strange one... I am absolutely against use of chloroform or any counsciousness obliterating substance the effects of which we may not know or be able to gauge; alcohol is not among those substances for me though.
I agree with everyone who says substances should not be used which alter one's ability to use safeword... I sure hope though that people aren't playing with random strangers and taking risks like losing ability to safeword.. M

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"touching was and still is and will always be the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

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Post #: 13

RE: Chloroform anyone? - 5/29/2005 2:18:05 PM

darkangel

Posts: 2339
Status: offline

quote:

As a mindphuck you might put a little ammonia on the rag,

Precaution - ammonia can cause burning to the nostril membrances and causes breathing problems if inhaled and also induce vomiting to some people. And isn't safe to use in a closed environment.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

Blessings

~Angel~

a belle fille violente
Do not scorn, or frown because I walk a different path to you...

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 14

RE: Chloroform anyone? - 5/29/2005 5:52:35 PM

MsSilvie

Posts: 248
Joined: 2/4/2005
Status: offline

Anything that can alter your mental state can be dangerous, scene or not. Some of the people who have bottomed for me are in at least as altered a state as being moderately drunk, simply from playing. This is why people tend to get into trouble thinking that a safeword is a fail safe device. You do your discussion and negotiation before you start playing, and you stick to the limits you discuss ahead of time, before the endorphins and other happy brain chemicals start flowing.

Chloroform isn't explosive under any conditions that I'm aware of. It's quite stable. Again, you may be thinking of ether, which can form peroxides on storage. Both can cause skin irritation. Neither is readily absorbed via the skin, at least in comparison to some other chemicals that can pass the skin barrier very easily.

_____________________________

Strange thoughts beget strange deeds.

- Percy Bysshe Shelley

(in reply to darkangel)

Post #: 15

RE: Chloroform anyone? - 5/29/2005 8:06:55 PM

PenelopePitstop

Posts: 173
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: UK
Status: offline

Just looking at the OP - I don't think it's chloroform that is used among the gay community I think it's Amyl Nitrate.

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Wickedness is a myth created by good people to account for the curious attractiveness of others ~ Oscar Wilde

(in reply to MsSilvie)

Post #: 16

RE: Chloroform anyone? - 6/1/2005 6:53:39 AM

darkangel

Posts: 2339
Status: offline

www.info.anu.edu.au

quote:

Laboratory Chemicals that may Develop Explosive Potential on Deterioration A very wide variety of laboratory chemicals may deteriorate to produce explosive chemicals or chemicals with explosive potential due to (1) becoming a shock-sensitive explosive, (2) forming peroxides (which are shock-sensitive explosives), (3) may also form peroxides, (4) being a strong oxidising agent (and hence, sensitive to the presence of dust and organics), (5) container developing high internal gas pressure (due to decomposition or other reaction). A list of chemicals coded in the above scheme has been provided in Appendix C6 (Deteriorated chemicals) of M.J. Pitt and E. Pitt Handbook of Laboratory Waste Disposal and this list, together with local additions, is reproduced below. The list may not be complete. Information is also available from the Bretherick references.

Appropriate care should be exercised in the storage and handling of these materials. Acetal (3) Acetaldehyde diethyl acetal (3) 2-acetyl furan (3) Acetyl peroxide (1) Aluminium chloride (5) Aluminium lithium hydride (5) Ammonia solution (5) Ammonium dichromate (4) Ammonium hydroxide (5) Anethole (3) Anisaldehyde (3) Anisole (3) Anisyl chloride (5) Aqua regia (5) Benzenesulphonyl chloride (5) Benzoyl peroxide (1) Bleach (5) Bleaching powder (5) 2-(2-butoxyethoxy)ethyl acetate (3) 2-Butoxyethyl acetate (3) t-Butyl hydroperoxide (4) iso-Butyl ether (2) n-butyl ether (3) Calcium carbide (5) Calcium hydride (5) Calcium hypochlorite (5) Cellosolve (3) Chloroform (5) Chromic acid (5) Chromium trioxide (4) Cleaning mixtures (5) Cumene (3) Cumene hydroperoxide (5) Cyclohexene (3) Cyclopentadiene (3) Cyclopentane (3)

Chemrest

Chemical Scorecard for the Federal Clear air act

quote:

List: Regulated Toxic, Explosive, or Flammable Substances (Clean Air Act)

Chemical Name CAS Registry Number (or EDF Substance ID)
ACETALDEHYDE 75-07-0
ACETYLENE 74-86-2
ACROLEIN 107-02-8
ACRYLONITRILE 107-13-1
ACRYLYL CHLORIDE 814-68-6
ALLYL ALCOHOL 107-18-6
ALLYL AMINE 107-11-9
AMINOETHANE 75-04-7
AMMONIA 7664-41-7
ARSENOUS TRICHLORIDE 7784-34-1
ARSINE 7784-42-1
BIS(CHLOROMETHYL) ETHER 542-88-1
BORON TRICHLORIDE 10294-34-5
BORON TRIFLUORIDE 7637-07-2
BORON TRIFLUORIDE COMPOUND WITH METHYL ETHER (1:1) 353-42-4
BROMINE 7726-95-6
BROMOTRIFLUORETHYLENE 598-73-2
1,3-BUTADIENE 106-99-0
BUTANE 106-97-8
BUTENE 25167-67-3
1-BUTENE 106-98-9
2-BUTENE 107-01-7
CARBON DISULFIDE 75-15-0
CARBONOCHLORIDIC ACID, PROPYLESTER 109-61-5
CARBONYL SULFIDE 463-58-1
CHLORINE 7782-50-5
CHLORINE DIOXIDE 10049-04-4
CHLORINE OXIDE (CL2O) 7791-21-1
CHLOROETHANE 75-00-3
CHLOROFORM 67-66-3
CHLOROMETHANE 74-87-3

Peace and Love

_____________________________

Blessings

~Angel~

a belle fille violente
Do not scorn, or frown because I walk a different path to you...

(in reply to MsSilvie)

Post #: 17

RE: Chloroform anyone? - 6/1/2005 9:12:33 AM

MsSilvie

Posts: 248
Joined: 2/4/2005
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http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/CH/chloroform.html

Physical data
Appearance: clear colourless liquid with a sweet odour
Melting point: -63 C
Boiling point: 61 C
Vapour density: 4.1
Vapour pressure: 159 mm Hg at 20 C
Specific gravity: 1.48 g/cm3
Flash point: none
Explosion limits: (none)
Autoignition temperature: (none)

http://msds.ehs.cornell.edu/msds/msdsdod/a97/m48174.htm

Section 5 - Fire Fighting Measures
CHLOROFORM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fire Fighting Procedures:
WEAR SELF-CNTD BRTHG,APP H20 SPRAY TO COOL CONTR.
Unusual Fire or Explosion Hazard:
NOT CONSIDERED TO BE AN EXPLOSION HAZARD; SLIGHT FIRE HAZARD WHEN EXPOSED TO HIGH HEAT.
Extinguishing Media:
EXTINQUISH W. AGENT SUITABLE FOR SURROUNDING FIRE.
Flash Point: Flash Point Text: NONE

Autoignition Temperature:
Autoignition Temperature Text: N/A
Lower Limit(s): N/R
Upper Limit(s): N/R

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/c2915.htm

5. Fire Fighting Measures
Fire:
Slight fire hazard when exposed to high heat; otherwise, practically not flammable.
Explosion:
Sealed containers may rupture when heated.
Fire Extinguishing Media:
Use any means suitable for extinguishing surrounding fire.

Chloroform is volatile, it can build up a head pressure if heated in a sealed container. Preserved chloroform has some alcohol, and if the liquid gets contaminated with water, that all creates more pressure, because vapor pressures are additive. If you want to say "explosion" can be breaking the container it is in due to pressure under excessive heat, I suppose I would agree. A can of soda will also do this under excessive heat. It's not an explosive reaction that you would get from something like ether. I've never seen chloroform offered in an explosion proof container. I have never heard of a bottle of chloroform rupturing unexpectedly. Nor do I look at a bottle of cloroform with deep mistrust that it may pop on me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

quote:

www.info.anu.edu.au

quote:

Laboratory Chemicals that may Develop Explosive Potential on Deterioration A very wide variety of laboratory chemicals may deteriorate to produce explosive chemicals or chemicals with explosive potential due to (1) becoming a shock-sensitive explosive, (2) forming peroxides (which are shock-sensitive explosives), (3) may also form peroxides, (4) being a strong oxidising agent (and hence, sensitive to the presence of dust and organics), (5) container developing high internal gas pressure (due to decomposition or other reaction). A list of chemicals coded in the above scheme has been provided in Appendix C6 (Deteriorated chemicals) of M.J. Pitt and E. Pitt Handbook of Laboratory Waste Disposal and this list, together with local additions, is reproduced below. The list may not be complete. Information is also available from the Bretherick references.

Appropriate care should be exercised in the storage and handling of these materials. Acetal (3) Acetaldehyde diethyl acetal (3) 2-acetyl furan (3) Acetyl peroxide (1) Aluminium chloride (5) Aluminium lithium hydride (5) Ammonia solution (5) Ammonium dichromate (4) Ammonium hydroxide (5) Anethole (3) Anisaldehyde (3) Anisole (3) Anisyl chloride (5) Aqua regia (5) Benzenesulphonyl chloride (5) Benzoyl peroxide (1) Bleach (5) Bleaching powder (5) 2-(2-butoxyethoxy)ethyl acetate (3) 2-Butoxyethyl acetate (3) t-Butyl hydroperoxide (4) iso-Butyl ether (2) n-butyl ether (3) Calcium carbide (5) Calcium hydride (5) Calcium hypochlorite (5) Cellosolve (3) Chloroform (5) Chromic acid (5) Chromium trioxide (4) Cleaning mixtures (5) Cumene (3) Cumene hydroperoxide (5) Cyclohexene (3) Cyclopentadiene (3) Cyclopentane (3)

Unfortunately I can't pull up this link to see what else is listed in there. Overall, appropriate care should be exercised in the storage and handling of any chemical materials. Most things have the potential to be hazardous. I generally would agree that I would have about the same level of concern for a bottle of bleach, ammonia or cleaning mixture (all of which can be found in my laundry room) exploding as I would have about a bottle of chloroform.

quote:

Chemrest

Chemical Scorecard for the Federal Clear air act

quote:

List: Regulated Toxic, Explosive, or Flammable Substances (Clean Air Act)

No one was stating chloroform isn't toxic, were they?

Edited, 'cause I don't spel to gud.

< Message edited by MsSilvie -- 6/1/2005 9:16:59 AM >

_____________________________

Strange thoughts beget strange deeds.

- Percy Bysshe Shelley

(in reply to darkangel)

Post #: 18

RE: Chloroform anyone? - 6/1/2005 11:47:16 AM

darkangel

Posts: 2339
Status: offline

If there is a possibility of explosion, no matter how slight, then its explosive. Agreed that any chemical in the cupboard under the sink is potentially explosive. There are cases of chloroform in closed containers exploding. When I studied chemistry, chloroform was used during explosion experiments behind a safety screen and experiment room it was considered dangerous for inhalation and the possibilty of coming into contact with other units. If Chloroform is accidently comes in contact with certain substances, it becomes explosive - I was offering advice and it can be taken as it stands or not. The OP asked about chlorofom and the best thing people can do is point out the 'potential' risks - especially if a person doesn't understand the chemical. You can't just store it in your medicine cabinet and cross your fingers. The potential of its capabilities has been noted - it doesn't mean it will happen - It can be advised and after that, its their choice.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

Blessings

~Angel~

a belle fille violente
Do not scorn, or frown because I walk a different path to you...

(in reply to MsSilvie)

Post #: 19

RE: Chloroform anyone? - 6/3/2005 12:32:27 PM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3610
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

quote:

Then again, who wants to go to sleep and miss the fun of being play-raped? I don't see the point of using Chloroform.

I agree, and she would never know if anything non-consensual was done to her.

Personally that's part of the appeal.

While I personally would LOVE to be drugged (long long time fantasy) I can see how it would make sense to use OTC drugs or some personal prescription.

Part of the fantasy is being totally knocked out, coming to and realizing SOMETHINGS been done, but you have no idea what, just that you were used and unconscious. Part of the fantasy is being immobile but still partially AWARE so you can tell some of what's going on but can't do anything about it.

Very hot.

(in reply to proudsub)

Post #: 20

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