There's too many threads. I'd better start a new one. (Full Version)

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timorous -> There's too many threads. I'd better start a new one. (4/10/2005 3:53:34 PM)



I'm sure you'll understand... If I go in and read everything on every thread I won't have any time left to actually do any of the things discussed.

I'm now no longer in the poly relationship I was in and sad that it didn't work out. I miss it a lot and have sought to talk it through with other polys. But it is a real frustration how few real polys there are around.

In one chat room that I've been going to for ages I've slowly gotten to realise that almost none of the supposed polys there are poly at all.... and so cannot understand what I'm talking about.

It is particularly annoying how many subs say they are when they clearly are not.

If you are truely poly then you won't have the level of feelings of jealousy that I come across and the associated angst. It shouldn't be there..... rather you should be experiencing excitement and happiness for your Master.

Well, that's what I think anyway. As you were....


[image]local://upfiles/107169/C6CD552162634230ACE4D676F92200F5.jpg[/image]



FelinePersuasion -> RE: There's too many threads. I'd better start a new one. (4/10/2005 5:40:05 PM)

Being poly doesn't mean that one can't be prone to a little bit of jelousey now and then. Jelousy is a natural human emotion.



stef -> RE: There's too many threads. I'd better start a new one. (4/10/2005 6:05:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: timorous

If you are truely poly then you won't have the level of feelings of jealousy that I come across and the associated angst. It shouldn't be there..... rather you should be experiencing excitement and happiness for your Master.

Ah, if only that were the case. Jealousy is a normal human emotion and *everyone* experiences that feeling at one time or another no matter what they might say. It's how a person deals with jealousy that's important and shows whether or not they're suitable for a poly relationship.

BTW, be careful throwing around the word 'true' while you're here. I think that word starts more conflagrations here than any other [;)]

~stef



ShiftedJewel -> RE: There's too many threads. I'd better start a new one. (4/10/2005 6:34:02 PM)

quote:

Jealousy is a normal human emotion and *everyone* experiences that feeling at one time or another no matter what they might say.


So is anger and rage, yet we expect ourselves and others to control that, don't we?

Ok, this is where I get the hell knocked outta me... I can feel it coming.... but I'm bold brave and adventurous...

According to Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary…

Jealous:
1. Fearful or suspicious of being displaced by a rival in affection or favors.
2. Vindictive toward another because of supposed or actual rivalry.
3. Vigilant in guarding: to be jealous of a privilege.
4. Resulting or arising from jealousy: jealous fears.
5. Demanding exclusive worship and love. Jealous God

Synonyms according to Roget’s Thesaurus….
Jealous:
Possessive, envious, resentful, demanding, monopolizing, protective, watchful, covetous, begrudging, mistrustful, suspicious, skeptical, doubting, jaundiced, insecure, apprehensive, green-eyed*: see also envious 2, suspicious 1 –

Ant. Trusting, confiding, forgiving.

Jealousy:
Syn:
Resentment, possessiveness, suspicion; see doubt, envy.

Why did I bother to type out the meanings? Because I wanted everyone to see Jealousy for what it truly is. Please take notice of the definitions and synonyms that speak of mistrust, insecurity, doubt, envy and skeptical as well as the opposite… Trust.

There simply is no room in a true D/s relationship for jealousy, there shouldn’t be in any relationship. As long as open communication exists, complete honesty, respect for each other and real trust in each other.

So, like you, I have to ask… why is there so much jealousy out there? Why so much insecurity? To me that shows a serious lack of communication, trust, honesty and respect. That leads back to the question about how good is the relationship to begin with?

A lot of people say they aren’t necessarily “jealous”, they just don’t want to share their significant other……. So what do we call that? They call it possessive or protective. Isn’t that the same thing? According to Roget?

I know what's coming, been here long enough to expect it. No, I am not saying the whole world should be involved in some form of a poly relationship, what I am saying is that we should call a spade a spade. I don't think anyone that displays a small amount of jealousy, insecurity, possessiveness or even suspicion is a bad person, you do what ever you can live with, just please, be honest about it. If someone tells me that they aren't interested in a poly relationship because they are the "jealous" type.... I fully understand and respect them for knowing themselves so well.

quote:

If you are truely poly then you won't have the level of feelings of jealousy that I come across and the associated angst. It shouldn't be there.....


~dons her armor and heads out for more~~

I completely agree with you. We are a poly family... My husband and I are both Dominants and we both have live-in 24/7 submissives. I can honestly say that I have never felt even the slightest twinge of jealousy when he interacts with his submissive, I could speak for him, but I'm sure he'll add his own words here as well.

Yes, if you are "truly" of a poly mindset there should be no feelings of jealousy or angst about it. We are never going to convince everyone of that, and I understand. It's kinda like riding a Harley, if I have to explain you wouldn't understand.

Jewel



timorous -> RE: There's too many threads. I'd better start a new one. (4/10/2005 7:20:28 PM)



thank you Jewel,

I accept that jealousy happens.... even though I tend not to experience it myself.....

But it was the degree of jealousy that I find really lifts my eyebrows. And for that reason I stick to my earlier contention about "true" poly subs.



SweetDommes -> RE: There's too many threads. I'd better start a new one. (4/10/2005 7:30:59 PM)

I agree with what Stef said - it isn't that they shouldn't be jealous ever, it's that they should know how to deal with that jealousy. I freely admit that I can be a completely jealous bitch sometimes ... but I can deal with it, I can accept the feelings, think them out logically as to why I feel that way, discuss it with my girlfriend and our boy, and move past them - THAT is what being "truly poly" should be. Not that the feelings never happen, but that when they do, they can be worked through.

I live poly every day, and as I said, I can be a jealous bitch - but I am still poly because I know how to deal with that emotion and I don't let it overwhelm me.



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: There's too many threads. I'd better start a new one. (4/10/2005 8:06:30 PM)

Well said Sweet.

If people never experience jealousy, that's awesome. But you aren't bad and you aren't "not poly" if you do experience it. A great majority of poly people experienc ejealousy to some degree at some point in their relationships.

That being said, a great majority of monogamous people experience jealous to some degree at some point in their relationships.

It's not the feelings of jealousy which are the problem, it's not knowing how to handle them, how to understand them and how to work through them that is the problem.

And those are relationship skills, not poly skills.



ScooterTrash -> RE: There's too many threads. I'd better start a new one. (4/10/2005 8:30:07 PM)

I certainly hope I do not offend any of my friends here...and I am glad if some do have that twinge of jealousy they can control it, but in reality (my reality) there is absolutely NO place for jealousy in a poly household. I am not a bit jealous, period! That would change if WE didn't communicate constantly and there was a chance of one of us "cheating", but that is a non-issue since we don't have to do that to get variety. We agreed from the start that if we saw or met someone we wanted to interact with sexually, we would simply discuss it...no problem that way, kinda take the pizzaazz out of cheating doesn't it..lol. Never heard of cheating with permission and that would be the only betrayal my emotions may get triggered by. Kind of like stealing my tools, makes no sense, I will loan them to anyone if they ask. Anyway, back on track, we have had subs visit and we have actually discussed if I should "play" with them, and she knows how my play generally ends, it's not non-sexual (winks)..we have agreed it was fine in all cases. We do think alike and wouldn't endanger the other or our subs under any circumstances so we are certain of what we are doing before we do it, they are always someone we know very very well and have known for some time. If you aren't to that level of trust with them, play shouldn't even be a possibility anyway. Yes I do interact with subs in clear view and under no secrecy, the same is allowed of her, it is not an issue. Like I tell anyone who questions me on how I can do that, particularly of her (must be a double standard I don't know about). I tell them, I have yet to see the equipment (OEM from birth) we are using wear out, so what does it hurt, gezzz, it's sex, she's not running off to a far away castle to live with the king..lol. I love my wife and co-Dominant dearly, oh so much, but to go into a fit because she is sexually active with a submissive...sorry I do not understand that mindset. As SJ mentioned, NO, poly is not for everyone...if they are honest with themselves and do not share or play well with others, then no, it will not work. But if they can do that, if they can realize that they are not having anything taken away from them, they are not being cheated, they are not being robbed of anything, then yes, it may be the right move. But that has to actually be what they think, what they feel, it cannot be something they try to act through..you have to be that way to do this. If anyone thinks they can simply get over it..I wish you well but I am not placing bets in your corner. If as the OP stated they had come across jealosy in their particular situation, then I actually have to agree there was a problem and perhaps they should simply move on. You will notice I did not mention the subs outlook on this. I didn't ignore it, I simply don't have experience with jealous subs. WE screen well, we ask that question time and time again if we are considering a sub/slave. Can you be sure..hmm, only as sure as you are of anything else I guess. If it's a bad call, it will show (rear it's ugly head) soon on. I honestly think most sub/slave seeking poly have already went through that in their head, the place I see where it may happen is when a monogamous relationship makes the leap to poly. That is when I would think communication would be a priority (it should be anyway). I don't think a Dom or Domme can simply decide they are going to be poly without consulting their existing sub/slave. It may be fine with the Dominant, but jealosy is not the kind of thing you can force someone to change. You may be able to control or change a lot of things..but that isn't one of them..they have to do that.

edited to be easier to read..sorry 'bout the fat font



stef -> RE: There's too many threads. I'd better start a new one. (4/10/2005 9:29:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

quote:

Jealousy is a normal human emotion and *everyone* experiences that feeling at one time or another no matter what they might say.


So is anger and rage, yet we expect ourselves and others to control that, don't we?

Certainly.

quote:

There simply is no room in a true D/s relationship for jealousy, there shouldn’t be in any relationship. As long as open communication exists, complete honesty, respect for each other and real trust in each other.

I would expand the first part of that to say that unchecked jealousy (and the same goes for anger, rage and any other adverse feelings) shouldn't be in any relationship. People can't help the emotions that pop up, it's all part of being human. It's only when those emotions overrule the logical part of the brain when problems can develop.

quote:

So, like you, I have to ask… why is there so much jealousy out there? Why so much insecurity? To me that shows a serious lack of communication, trust, honesty and respect. That leads back to the question about how good is the relationship to begin with?

I'm not sure how much jealousy and insecurity is out there so I can't really speak to that. I know plenty of poly relationships that work and a bunch that didn't as well. Just like non-poly relationships. No relationship is immune.

quote:

A lot of people say they aren’t necessarily “jealous”, they just don’t want to share their significant other……. So what do we call that? They call it possessive or protective. Isn’t that the same thing? According to Roget?

I call it monogamy. Not wanting to share a partner is not jealousy.

~stef



timorous -> RE: There's too many threads. I'd better start a new one. (4/11/2005 2:59:20 AM)


I just want to make an observation......

It is difficult and unpleasant to read long posts that are written entirely in caps.... especially when the diatribe is all in one paragraph.

I think you do yourself a disservice to go to so much forethought and trouble if few can be bothered with trying to read it all.

A pity... it is interesting.



timorous -> RE: There's too many threads. I'd better start a new one. (4/11/2005 3:02:59 AM)



Jeepers... my mistake... I just noticed it isn't actually in caps at all... just in really large font size...

Boy, do I feel stupid. [:(]



ShiftedJewel -> RE: There's too many threads. I'd better start a new one. (4/11/2005 5:08:45 AM)

I just read it myself timorous, I can understand why you felt that way, I'll make it a point to tell him that the font he chooses is difficult to read, especially if it's a long post like that. I had difficulty reading it as well.

Jewel



stormsfate -> RE: There's too many threads. I'd better start a new one. (4/11/2005 10:11:10 AM)

I don't believe that jealousy should affect a relationship, as it should be appropriately dealt with, however, saying there should never be jealousy is like saying one should never get angry (so if you do on occasion feel jealousy, but don't behave inappropriately, don't feel like a poly reject..it happens).

Its a human emotion, as previously pointed out, and the key is how you deal with it. I had some twinges of something early on...not really sure how to define them, as they didn't seem to fit into the jealousy definition as it was never to do with either of my partners, but more with myself and things I had always believed be true (its not always easy to change a lifetime of thinking...even when you want to...lol).

Every so often, I'll notice when I'm feeling overwhelmed with everything I have to get done, and have had little to no time with my owner, I will begin to experience feelings, that while again, I would not define them as jealousy, certainly wouldn't be conducive to a poly relationship if let run amok. I've learned to pinpoint and realize what causes it. Once that is done, its easy to maintain the open communication and to move past the feelings without causing so much as a blip on the radar screen.

So while there is absolutely NO way I feel that a person should never experience or feel jealousy...I do feel it can be an exceedingly damaging emotion if someone unleashes it on their partners and personally, I love both of mine too much to bring that chaos into their lives.


f



ruffnecksbabygir -> RE: There's too many threads. I'd better start a new one. (4/11/2005 11:25:07 AM)

So, is it possible for a jealous person to change?
I wish i could be so secure in myself that i would never feel jealous about Master but i don't know how to get to that point. i do trust Him, and we have extremely good communication, respect, devotion, etc... i feel very loved by Him so the insecurity isn't in the relationship at all, it's within me....i fear sharing Him because He might "connect" on other levels other than sexually, and then i'd lose Him...i know, that's really insecure on my part and all that but i just don't know how to break that cycle of thinking. I can rationalize it and know that it's ridiculous to feel that way but my mind will see it clearly yet my emotions will get in the way.



stormsfate -> RE: There's too many threads. I'd better start a new one. (4/11/2005 1:58:14 PM)

I think it is possible to overcome, ruffnecksbabygirl....but I also feel like anything else worth doing, it takes a lot of work on self. I know five years ago, I would have had a tough time reaching the place I'm at now. Its actually amazing to me to look back at the process and see how much I've grown in my service over the years.

Emerald...I think it was you who posted elselist (or maybe you just responded) about what women think while their male Dominant is playing with someone else versus what the male Dominant is actually thinking...lol. Was that you? If so...could you repeat that here? I thought it was great!


f



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: There's too many threads. I'd better start a new one. (4/11/2005 2:31:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stormsfate

Emerald...I think it was you who posted elselist (or maybe you just responded) about what women think while their male Dominant is playing with someone else versus what the male Dominant is actually thinking...lol. Was that you? If so...could you repeat that here? I thought it was great!

f


Soudns familiar, unfortunately my allergies are having serious issues and I'm not all happy right now to remember.

Poly doms are usually thinking about the next time they can actually just get a half hour of alone time, how on earth to schedule a birthday party, a new play scene AND pay the bills this weekend, and how not to fuck up too badly.



timorous -> RE: There's too many threads. I'd better start a new one. (4/11/2005 2:38:31 PM)





I know it might seem like I'm blasting people for having jealousy. I don't mean to. I do want to draw a distinction between jealousy in a vanilla or a D/s or even a M/s relationship and that within a poly relationship.

I don't believe it has any place in a poly relationship. I know that despite the best intentions it can happen but I think we really need to be committed to the goal of enhancing our Masters' lives and helping them fully realise themselves and be all that they can be. They have taken another to help them do this and it is a matter of duty to support Him in this in what ever way we can.

Funny thing though............ when I was in my last relationship... which was poly...... our Master would sometimes chat and flirt with other women... and my sub-sister and I would be furious... absolutely livid. But it really helped to have each other... and we could enjoy a good laugh at Him behind his back occasionally about his fillandering ways.



ShiftedJewel -> RE: There's too many threads. I'd better start a new one. (4/11/2005 3:26:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffnecksbabygir

So, is it possible for a jealous person to change?
I wish i could be so secure in myself that i would never feel jealous about Master but i don't know how to get to that point. i do trust Him, and we have extremely good communication, respect, devotion, etc... i feel very loved by Him so the insecurity isn't in the relationship at all, it's within me....i fear sharing Him because He might "connect" on other levels other than sexually, and then i'd lose Him...i know, that's really insecure on my part and all that but i just don't know how to break that cycle of thinking. I can rationalize it and know that it's ridiculous to feel that way but my mind will see it clearly yet my emotions will get in the way.


I know what worked for me, I had to reach a point where I knew that I loved him, and that he loved me... then I had to let go of that love. I had to become independent of it. See, I knew I depended on him, on his love. I never depended on me and my ability to survive without a man in my life. To quote my msn profile....I've reached a point in my life when battles are hard won and victories are the sweetest they have ever been. I've learned that I can laugh till I cry, smile and mean it, sleep like a baby and hear my own alarm clock, and I can do all by myself.

It wasn't until I found "me" that I found that I didn't have to be jealous or insecure anymore. See, if someone can come into our lives, or our home and "steal" him from me, he wasn't worth having to begin with.


Jewel



ScooterTrash -> RE: There's too many threads. I'd better start a new one. (4/11/2005 4:04:43 PM)

Not that anyone could steal the guy you have now SJ (winks), couldn't happen. But yes, I think to get over the jealousy you are correct, you have to be capable of being independent with your emotions, even if you never have to use that skill. Personally, I think that simlpy being confident of myself as well as my partner has made the transition easy.

Had to edit, typist needed slapped..lol.



srahfox -> RE: There's too many threads. I'd better start a new one. (4/11/2005 8:42:46 PM)

I had a really odd way of getting over jealousy and possessiveness. Master and I originally had a long distance relationship. (Way back when when we were dating and vanilla) We did have an open relationship at the time because we simply didn't know when we may accually be together. The agreement was that we were open only as long as we were not living together. Well, I moved to be closer and we were monogamous. Then we went to a party, we arrived together, left seperate. I had to work the next day so I went home. The next day he came to my work and was really antsy, he had something to tell me. Finally later that night he told me he had slept with some girl from the party. He was drunk and horny and she was willing. Well, I was really upset and it took me a long time to think about it. Finally I came to the conclusion that it simply didn't matter. He screwed her. He loves me. He would make sure I ate every night (Long wierd story, the people I lived with were SLOBS and I would not eat at home), he took care of me, got me into my locked car and made me dublicate keys. Not to mention a million other little things. He did non of that for her. As of that everything changed. We have a open relationship now. Ten years later, a marrage later, and into BDSM. Do I get jealous, only a little, and it's because I know What they are getting and it's good. :) But then I remember I'll get some later and I get it more and that makes me happy. The longer we are together the better we know one anouther. I have not a touch of fear in me that he will leave me, I know if she's all that interesting he'll bring her home. I'd love to have anouther subby in the house, but right now it's just the two of us. (I know who I'd like to be a sister sub too as well, but she's not going for it. Ah well)



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