polygamy and sexism

polygamy and sexism (Full Version)

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millimon -> polygamy and sexism (4/7/2005 11:44:47 AM)
I've noted that many people have been confusing polygamy with polygyny or polyandry, which are both subsets. To be clear, mormons used to practice polygyny, or many wives. Polygamy is merely the state of living with multiple spouses, no sex is defined innately, and it is therefore _not_ a crime against women or humanity or any of that rot. polygamy is essentially polyamory, or what some call polyfidelity. Of all the poly words, only polygamy appears in most dictionaries, reflecting common usage has not yet reached the other terms. Everyone likes to have their own definitions, but this brings confusion and arguments, and is counter productive. Legally, gay people can't marry, multiple marriages aren't allowed, and there are other restrictions depending upon your nationality and/or religion. I went to Evergreen state college where everyone gets to define things themselves, and the result was that no useful dialog ever occurred and nobody agreed with anyone. Seminars at Evergreen are heated and full of anger and confusion. Opinion is _not_ fact. I prefer to keep it simple and admit honestly that I believe in polygamy, and practice it. As a bi person, I find that this naturally fits my desires and lifestyle, and I've been so comfortable with it that I'll never consider attempting to return to ozzie and harriet lifestyles. In some threads it is discussed that BDSM and poly are or are not mixing well. I've never had any problem. The key in ALL situations relationally is communication. If your partners are into it, who has the right to judge them? or You? Not I. I _have_ found that many self-declared subs who have jealousy issues, are actually dissatisfied monogamists who assume a role of passive aggression to get what they want using sex and lifestyle changes. These are my personal findings, and will differ from yours, I'm sure. I've learned to screen all future partners, and friends, for aggression, mania, religious conflicts, and other serious situations that would corrupt a relationship. I now have an excellent relationship with my best friend, a submissive woman, that is based on mutual trust and understanding. It took us four straight months of talking and nudging closer. There is no magic bullet. You have to have dialog. You have to have patience. I/she/WE are interested in talking with and meeting others re BDSM, poly, bi, and other topics, online or in the Tacoma WA area, and here. Disclaimer:[There is Gorean, Power Exchance, Role Playing, and probably at least a half dozen other varieties of Dominance and submission, and I do NOT claim to be expert at all of them.] Me Dom, you jane. Play nice or blocked be.

EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: polygamy and sexism (4/7/2005 11:50:03 AM)
Hi, not sure what this has to do with the "sexism" part of the topic line? Also, are you looking to spark a particular discussion or have a question or just wanted to throw that out and see what responses you get?

millimon -> RE: polygamy and sexism (4/11/2005 12:20:10 AM)
bingo! Yeah, I just wanted to see what others thought. Gotta start somewhere. I refer to sexism in the first paragraph. specifically, polygamy has a bad rap as "anti feminist" or bad for women, when that only applies to dogmatically fundamentalist cults, and not to say, tribal lifestyles or modern arrangements. ^_^

SweetDommes -> RE: polygamy and sexism (4/11/2005 1:46:28 AM)
polygamy is not essentially polyandry - polygamy is a recognized relationship that includes more than just one person, be it multiples of males or females, typically legally recognized (not in the US, I know, but in other countries - many countries - yes). Polyamory is the emotion aspect of poly - love for more than one person. There can definately be polygamy (and often is) without love. And there can be polyamory without any kind of recognized relationship (meaning that they do not all live together, not married, things like that). I know that is off topic, but it's kind of a pet peeve of Holly's and mine. On topic, I have never thought that polygamy was anti-feminist or anything like that. But then again, I hate femi-nazis ... so I'm probably not the best one to discuss that part LOL

millimon -> RE: polygamy and sexism (4/20/2005 7:32:26 AM)
I agree with the essence of your reply, but polyamory STILL is not in most dictionaries. It's a west-coast word that is popular with certain sets of society in western civilization. Go to China or Germany and they have no idea what you're talking about, etc. Also those definitions are either your own, or from the web, and thus are framed by an internet subset of society. This is not a perfectly logical argument but debate isn't the point. Polythis, polythat, polynonfidelitiousaggrarianism, polywhatever, those are made-up words... which are usually known as "buzzwords" which are valid only within the group that originated them and unrecognized elsewhere. As such, they are only useful for starting arguments and making presentation slides. Polygamy is and I quote "the state of living as though having multiple spouses." Websters Collegiate, which set me back 45.00 and wieghs way too much. It says nothing about being loyal, married, having sex, not having sex, or any of that. I've yet to find Polyamory in ANY dictionary. However, SWINGERS is also defined, and I find that a very clear set of people who identify as poly would fit that definition TOO well. [This isn't a swipe at you personally, more of a point of humor for myself.] Why invent new words when there is already a time-worn word that actually works best? Because people are afraid of it. Media and Church have brainwashed our culture to the point that even atheists think polygamy is bad. If polygamy was bad, the human race would have never made it out of the Stone Age. We are, at best, serial monogamists. We stay with one person until we find another. [/insert Lewis Black rant] I do recognize your frustration with people who 'confuse' terms that you accepted as valid, however you must understand that only a small subset of American society are even aware that those terms exist. I recognize them, and refuse to use them. That's different. You can view me as a bastard, or understand that I find that inventing or using other words dilutes the community of people who support non-monogamy and is viewed by me as separatist. And femi-nazi... hell I completely agree there. I went to Evergreen, and I saw so much male bashing and reverse discrimination that your hair would set fire if you saw it. The women who run that campus see no problem with criticising men who have children in a job interview, refusing to hire men in general, refusing to hire whites, ad nauseum, etc. D

SweetDommes -> RE: polygamy and sexism (4/20/2005 10:34:29 AM)
Actually, my definitions of those words come from having studied ancient Greek, and knowing that, in most cases, words are defined by their components - poly meaning more than one, amoury meaning love. Thus, polyamoury means more than one love.

stormsfate -> RE: polygamy and sexism (4/20/2005 5:00:10 PM)
Main Entry: polyamory Part of Speech: noun Definition: participation in multiple and simultaneous loving or sexual relationships Source: Webster's New Millennium™ Dictionary of English, Preview Edition (v 0.9.5) Copyright © 2003, 2004 Lexico Publishing Group, LLC As I'm sure you are aware...words are added to the dictionary all the time and there is a specific criteria for adding words. Polyamory did happen to make it into at least one popular dictionary, so its a word alright. As for polygamy....I checked several sources, and each definition was along the lines of "The condition or practice of having more than one spouse at one time." The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. Merriam-Webster defines it as "marriage in which a spouse of either sex may have more than one mate at the same time ". I was unable to find where it was defined as "the state of living as though having multiple spouses." Not to debate a moot point as I'm fond of using dictionary definitions as well, but polyamory and polygamy are two different things <shrug> best regards, fate

ShiftedJewel -> RE: polygamy and sexism (4/21/2005 8:34:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stormsfate Main Entry: polyamory Part of Speech: noun Definition: participation in multiple and simultaneous loving or sexual relationships Source: Webster's New Millennium™ Dictionary of English, Preview Edition (v 0.9.5) Copyright © 2003, 2004 Lexico Publishing Group, LLC As I'm sure you are aware...words are added to the dictionary all the time and there is a specific criteria for adding words. Polyamory did happen to make it into at least one popular dictionary, so its a word alright. As for polygamy....I checked several sources, and each definition was along the lines of "The condition or practice of having more than one spouse at one time." The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. Merriam-Webster defines it as "marriage in which a spouse of either sex may have more than one mate at the same time ". I was unable to find where it was defined as "the state of living as though having multiple spouses." Not to debate a moot point as I'm fond of using dictionary definitions as well, but polyamory and polygamy are two different things <shrug> best regards, fate Thank you stormsfate... I spent way to much time going through my collection of dictionaries looking.... I have at least 30 to 35.... looks like I need at least one more. Jewel

timorous -> RE: polygamy and sexism (4/21/2005 3:11:30 PM)
Who really cares what the books say.... they mean nothing at all... people will only believe what they have experienced themselves, either in reality or through hearing what has happened to other people. Or what they imagine. I know what poly means to me... based on my own experience of living in one and the knowledge that I'm very suited to poly relationships. I also know that everyone sees them differently and that's okay. We don't have to agree... just accept and tolerate.

ScooterTrash -> RE: polygamy and sexism (4/21/2005 6:25:34 PM)
I guess this is why I generally use the term "poly"..seems to get the point across without having to be too specific. I do have to agree that all the different definitions are interesting however. To many..they agree that there can be mulitples living together without that emotional bond..or love if you will, while there are many others who feel it is a necessity. Myself..I guess I fall into the second category, well with females anyway, probably swayed by the fact that I'm not bi perhaps. But sexists? Hmmm, nobody really touched on this part, but I feel it is totally the opposite, at least in my case. I honestly believe the reason I love poly so well is simply because I love females so much....I love to spoil them rotten (winks), physical interaction is certainly not a deterent and I do so enjoy that feeling of caring for someone so much your heart actually changes beat when you touch. So for me I don't feel it's sexist at all, not certain who-if anyone, is using who. I do however feel I have the capacity of love to share and I also feel I am just very very lucky to be able to do this, the gift is if they feel the same.

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