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RE: Image - 2/26/2005 12:31:37 PM   
PaintedLady


Posts: 35
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

LMAO.....I guess I have said that a good flogging takes one closer to God!



And I do find that I am often on my knees saying "Oh god oh god!"

_____________________________

"beware the fury of a patient man"
-John Dryen

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Image - 2/26/2005 8:22:00 PM   
kyakitten


Posts: 135
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaintedLady

quote:

LMAO.....I guess I have said that a good flogging takes one closer to God!



And I do find that I am often on my knees saying "Oh god oh god!"


I think the problems listed in this thread divide into two distinct categories: Public Image and Legal Protections.

>Public Image encompasses awareness and acceptance by the general public plus target groups such as the medical, regulatory and legal communities. This is the area where Jerry Springer and media depictions, psychiatric decisions, and family judgments squarely sit. Of course public perception also significantly influences legislative, regulatory and judicial decisions every day. Not to mention how (abysmally, sometimes) it defines who gets elected.

>Legal Protections includes removing restrictive laws, enacting protective laws, and defining “legal rights”.

Each of us likely has our personal beliefs on what specific reforms require top priority in terms of the benefits offered, and we’re probably all right!<g> From a strategy standpoint, there needs to be lot of work on public image before we’re going to get very far on the legal protection. Some degree of public acceptance has to exist to make it safe for personal-freedom-friendly politicians to introduce and support kink-friendly legislation as well as to perhaps eventually campaign openly on the issue. Put plainly, public opinion generally drives legislation; it’s far less common for legislation to drive public opinion.

Now, speaking VERY BROADLY here, if you want to influence legislation, you hire lobbyists. If you want to influence public image, you hire public relations professionals. A savvy DC pr company can place positive story ideas in the Hollywood media; generate good local and national press through a feel-good kink/charity partnership; recruit a panel of distinguished scientists to proclaim kink normal, massage shocking language and images into something more palatable to the general public, the list is endless.

If the primary goal is to address public image, that may be achievable through a regular nonprofit organization - arguably preferable for ease and non-partisan appearances, plus they can do some direct lobbying. They can’t endorse specific candidates, so a PAC is needed if the goal is to primarily support specific legislation or candidates. Given the secrecy lots of BDSMers are forced to live with, long-term anonymity of donors may also be a deciding factor – PAC disclosure requirements periodically fall under scrutiny.

Anyway, this is a brilliant thread and effort. Kudos, Merc & everyone!

< Message edited by kyakitten -- 10/5/2005 8:53:44 PM >

(in reply to PaintedLady)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Image - 2/26/2005 8:39:36 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 2326
Joined: 6/18/2004
From: Palos Verdes Estates
Status: offline
quote:

>Public Image encompasses awareness and acceptance by the general public plus target groups such as the medical, regulatory and legal communities. This is the area where Jerry Springer and media depictions, psychiatric decisions, and family judgments squarely sit. Of course public perception also significantly influences legislative, regulatory and judicial decisions every day. Not to mention how (abysmally, sometimes) it defines who gets elected.

>Legal Protections includes removing restrictive laws, enacting protective laws, and defining “legal rights”.


kya kitten,

Please advise which brand of beer you drink. I think this depicts very succinctly exactly what I'd like to accomplish. I think the heaviest emphasis should be on the 2nd item. It's the one that has the biggest negative impact, especially in the area of child custody.

_____________________________

Merc & beth

"The words printed here are concepts. You must go through the experiences." - Saint Augustine

(in reply to kyakitten)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Image - 2/26/2005 8:49:07 PM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 267
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		I also would have to say..where do I sign?
Me and mine are extemely open and do not hide our lifestyle choice. No I don't concern myself with the possible implications, I don't expect any. The back of our tourpak on our bike proudly displays the BDSM emblem, do I worry..hell no, it's there for the BDSM people, the nilla folks wouldn't know what it is other than a cute graphic..lol. So many of the nilla folks have so little clue what we do that if we simply blew the idea of whips and chains from their minds they wouldn't have anything left to worry about. But seriously, there are many organizations already in existence that could possibly jump on the bandwagon of a PAC or similar lobby group, yes the power in numbers would be the driving force. In all actuality it's a damned shame we need to consider anything at all..my feeling is as simple as "if it doesn't affect you directly, then don't worry about it", so I don't feel we should justifiably be on anyones "bad" list anyway. But as I said in opening...gimme a pen, I'll sign. By the way..yes I am a member of the ACLU.

_____________________________

Scooter.....It's not the destination..it's the journey

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Image - 2/27/2005 6:46:41 AM   
GingerleeDREAD


Posts: 90
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

At some point the Taboo is exposed, sometimes by accident, sometimes
intentionally. Unfortunately this exposure is often negative, sometimes even
criminal. Those who stand up and try to enlighten society face serious criticism
and can be persecuted for it. But even if they are witty, upstanding, and
withstand the critics intact, they are not taken very seriously... They are
directly opposing strongly held views by the society of large, they are threatening
the cloistered world that mundanes live in... so their message is often ignored.
Yet seeds are planted.
perhaps painfully too slow, but being misunderstood is better than being swept
under a rug.
The most important thing we can do at this moment is to stop living falsely
and in fear. Going to a website and debating the topic is far less likely to make
any form of permanent change than 'coming-out' to our friends and family


Not to take anything away from You Mercnbeth but this same issue I tempted to address in a much earlier forum and instead of gaining lifestylers on the boat to comeforward
I was questioned for whom I was, not from the vanilla society but Our Own and not a
hole hell of a lot of others would even make comment to this thread and state
for the record to Our Own people just who and what makes them up and a part
of the Alternate Lifestyle We call BDSM, D/s Kinks n Fetishes and Gor and untill
Those of Us whom desire to tempt to state that they come from Our places they
must first learn what Our places of comming from is. Ive faced ridacule many times
right here with in this very forum either because I was a Sadist, or because I was a
Alpha Dominant or because I was simply a Woman of Dominance whom respects
Men of Dominance over My Own.
Think about this and remember how those whom claim to be Lifestylers so easily excused and throw out those whom were not like them in their way of thinking and place with in this Lifestyle We call Alternate. There was a random poll on Stupidity and on this poll there were just as many folks here whom would of like to have seen the Extreamist removed as those
whom desired to have the Extreamist stay. What does this say about Our Community first?
These are the issues that must be first addressed with in befor they can be addressed without. Question Your personal distastes for another and ask Yourselfs what can You do
in order to change Your OWN PERSONAL DISTASTE for another in order to be accepting.
You cannot expect others to be accepting and understanding of your differances if you cannot learn how to be accepting and understanding of others as well first especially within
your Own House. Just My Personal Opinion and words of One whom is concidered a Outcaste within My Own Society of BDSMers because of My Practice and Beliefs.
http://www.collarme.com/forum/Psychiatric_Alternate_Lifestylers_Personnas_Defined%25What_personality_do_you_hold%3F/m_48549/tm.htm

(in reply to ScooterTrash)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Image - 2/28/2005 11:03:55 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 2326
Joined: 6/18/2004
From: Palos Verdes Estates
Status: offline
quote:

I also would have to say..where do I sign?


I've been sending direct email to some that have contacted me directly. In fact some of this is a copied directly. My apologies to those I haven't had a chance to respond personally. Support from everyone interested in doing so will be needed for us to succeed.

As soon as I have something for you to be involved with, I'll let you know. I'm meeting with a lawyer this week. With some counsel I've already received, I'm leaning initially to form an advocacy group addressing this issues of public education as well as support for those of us labeled as "perverts" by spouses and the community when facing child custody or job/residence discrimination. It's easier, and also gives more leeway in how we can solicit support. A PAC is much more restrictive and may be premature until our numbers are more obvious to the political parties.

Politically and in business I am a very conservative person, but I never understood how the right wing could campaign for greater freedom for corporations and industry while trying to regulate what individuals do in our homes or what consenting adults want to do or see in private. It's my ambition to someday challenge someone from the religious right with that question in a public forum.

Many have contacted me and questioned whether this is the "right" time or the "right" political environment to start something like this. I don't imagine a better time when the folly of hypocritical positions would be any more clear. Just look at the the top news story of the weekend. After 30 years of terror, finally Dennis L. Rader the alleged confessed BTK killer, has been captured. Until his arrest, he was the poster boy for the right; "churchgoing family man, President of the congregation of his local Lutheran church, and Cub Scout leader". This morning on TV we got to hear his pastor, Michale Clark, call for prayer for Dennis.

In his statement he outlined the goal I have for the lifestyle community, since I'm quoting a source I'll attach the link to the entire article. Here is what I strive in the words of pastor Clark;

quote:

"We are not here to judge him but to support him as a brother of Christ," Clark said of Rader.
Article Link: (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/fcstorymod/ext/Feature%20Articles/ap/btk_killings/SIG=129j53lmh/*http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/special_packages/btk/11010878.htm)

I'm an only child, but I'd like the brotherhood of man to give us the same consideration, WITHOUT having to kill 10 people.

_____________________________

Merc & beth

"The words printed here are concepts. You must go through the experiences." - Saint Augustine

(in reply to ScooterTrash)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Image - 2/28/2005 11:21:40 AM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1199
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I've been sending direct email to some that have contacted me directly. In fact some of this is a copied directly. My apologies to those I haven't had a chance to respond personally. Support from everyone interested in doing so will be needed for us to succeed.


Count me in. I am rather out about my lifestyle, and have no problems being more out.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.
http://bdsm.taggard.net

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Image - 2/28/2005 12:31:17 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 2326
Joined: 6/18/2004
From: Palos Verdes Estates
Status: offline
quote:

Those of Us whom desire to tempt to state that they come from Our places they
must first learn what Our places of comming from is. Ive faced ridacule many times
right here with in this very forum


Gingerlee,
If I really wanted to take on an impossible task I would try to write an encyclopedia of the lifestyle providing absolute descriptions of "Real Master"/"Real slave", or defining the difference between slave/submissive, or outlining the ultimate daily routine for a 24/7 relationship. Instead I'll take an easier task, trying to make our activities as consenting adults not be reason alone to decide child custody.

I would like to let all those people; who have furry hand cuffs, a paddle, or even a purple butt plug hidden in their drawer, know that if someone wanted to hurt them, that "toy" could be used as evidence that they need psychiatric care and should not be given the responsibility of child care. As a group we too often fall into that same trap. Consider recent threads where someone wondering why they were aroused during humiliation play was told by many they should seek counseling. If we have a knee jerk reaction to recommend counseling or medication in response to someone's kink, aren't we guilty of the same prejudices as our accusers?

Not everyone in the gay community is a cross dresser, yet somehow they managed to create a coalition for the purpose of eliminating discrimination that included the 'sisters of perpetual indulgence' and the 'gay republicans'. We have a similar common goal. Hopefully, as a group, we'll focus on eliminating discrimination against us and NOT the differences in our play preferences.

_____________________________

Merc & beth

"The words printed here are concepts. You must go through the experiences." - Saint Augustine

(in reply to GingerleeDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Image - 3/1/2005 3:25:28 AM   
lovingmaster45


Posts: 261
Joined: 9/16/2004
Status: offline 		This will get me in trouble; but I just have to say it.

This group accurately expresses my views with respect to sexual freedom;
http://www.ncsfreedom.org/
BUT; have any of you seen the people they choose to speak? The people who are delivering the message to the "straight" world?

Gays did not succeed in gaining ground by putting their "flamers", "drag queens", and the most obnoxious members of their community in charge of things.

They succeeded because they presented models of homosexuality that looked just like the straights who were afraid of them. "Normal looking" and "normal behaving" homosexuals ran for office, spoke at community forums, wrote letters to the editor, spoke to the church congregations where they were members, worked for charities, opened businesses which had influential customers, ran for office.

NCSF is "in your face" which is OK by me; but you had better put attractive people in front.

Look at all the sociological research; attractive people are more effective.

Look at the people NCSF puts before the public and you will get my point.

I run a very PRIVATE bdsm group in the bible belt. Our members include a lot of people who cannot do public play or have their kink exposed. Yes. People do lose their jobs because of their sexual kinks. We keep a low profile, yet still manage to have large fetish balls.

BDSM and its related activities are already coming into mainstream; just pick up a copy of Vanity Fair or W. But it is not ready for small southern towns and it certainly was not ready to be exposed to Ocean City Maryland in 2003.

_____________________________

Master Jerry


(in reply to BeachMystress)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Image - 3/1/2005 5:45:15 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3610
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		*waving* Jerry! I'm so surprise to see you!! You going to Leather Retreat this year?

(in reply to lovingmaster45)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Image - 3/1/2005 7:47:11 AM   
kyakitten


Posts: 135
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

>Public Image encompasses awareness and acceptance by the general public plus target groups such as the medical, regulatory and legal communities. This is the area where Jerry Springer and media depictions, psychiatric decisions, and family judgments squarely sit. Of course public perception also significantly influences legislative, regulatory and judicial decisions every day. Not to mention how (abysmally, sometimes) it defines who gets elected.

>Legal Protections includes removing restrictive laws, enacting protective laws, and defining “legal rights”.


kya kitten,


Please advise which brand of beer you drink. I think this depicts very succinctly exactly what I'd like to accomplish. I think the heaviest emphasis should be on the 2nd item. It's the one that has the biggest negative impact, especially in the area of child custody.


Merc,

First things first: Pete's Wicked Ale - my fave!

I can certainly see the reason for your emphasis. Be sure you look at both pieces together though - the public image is the environment in which you're trying to achieve your goals and it may or may not be adequately, um, lubed for a legislative thrust. And whereas you may relish the friction, as you know friction can have repercussions on both the immediate environment and potentially for your future ease of entry. <g>

Makes me think of last year's infamous Janet Jackson nipple incident. Assuming it was intentional (accident? ya right), somebody grossly misjudged the environment in which to thrust America's moral hypocrisy towards the female body into people's faces. The direct result of that "take no prisoners" style has been a huge upswing in television censorship by the FCC, plus a new crop of restrictive politicians that rode middle America's increased fears of the "decline of morality" to political power. Backlash can be worse than the status quo.

So I'd encourage you and the coalition you're building (count me in!) to take a long-term view of change, even to the point of developing a 10 or 20-year strategy. Even here in supposedly "liberal" Vermont, the civil unions bill didn't succeed until gay image building efforts had been underway for 15+ years - and even then all the legislators that voted for it promptly got dumped out on their asses at the next election. A success, yes, but a very costly one.

< Message edited by kyakitten -- 3/1/2005 12:18:01 PM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Image - 3/1/2005 11:45:45 AM   
MadameBette


Posts: 62
Joined: 9/8/2004
From: Long Island, NY
Status: offline
quote:

BUT have any of you seen the people they choose to speak? The people who are delivering the message to the "straight" world?


NCSF didn’t strike me as ‘in your face’.
Who have you met from NCSF? I asked Susan Wright to speak to my group on Long Island. She presented herself well. I’ve met her a few times.
When I attended a meeting of CAPE (Montgomery, AL) John Sokol spoke. He also seemed appropriate for the occasion, I thought. Beyond this, I don’t know him, so what he does in the vanilla world, I wouldn’t know.

~ Bette

(in reply to lovingmaster45)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Image - 3/1/2005 11:47:45 AM   
MadameBette


Posts: 62
Joined: 9/8/2004
From: Long Island, NY
Status: offline
quote:

So I'd encourage you and the coalition you're building (count me in!) to take a long-term view of change, even to the point of developing a 10 or 20-year strategy.


I think we all have to look at this as only the beginning. Change is always slow. But I think it’s time to make a start. I know we probably won’t reach our goals in my lifetime, but I’m ready to be part of the frontline…
Standing up and volunteering… [email protected]
~ Bette


(in reply to kyakitten)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Image - 3/1/2005 1:41:32 PM   
Voltare


Posts: 467
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline 		First, I will apologize as I haven't enough time to read the thread in it's entirety. I just have a couple of thoughts, and will pen them briefly.

First, any organization that pushes for the rights to pursue life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is great in my book. Defining those very vague terms is part of the trouble - an organization advocating the 'adjustment' of mentally ill people by throwing them all together in a desert to learn to fend for themselves probably wouldn't be well received. Naturally, that isn't what we are about. There are groups, the ACLU for example, with very broad based goals and very deep pockets to protect our liberties. By presenting our platform and concerns to such groups, as they share the same fundemental goals, it can provide a good base to begin. After all, the strongest weapon a PAC has isn't dollars or volunteers, but the power to change the perceptions of the voting public (in my opinion.)

Second, I'm not entirely sure it would be to our advantage to, say, take Sadomasochism out of the medical text books as being a mental illness. I was trying to explain the differences between a sadist who hurts because he likes the interaction with a masochist, a sadist who enjoys the methodical application of pain, and a sadist who enjoys seeing the damage he causes - the worse, the better (the last in my mind being clearly different from the first two, and definately in need of mental help before he ends up in jail for serial murder and rape.) Rather, I think it would be much better to attempt to convince the mental health professional community to do more research and investigation into the vast complexities of relationships and sex. There are kink aware psychologists and psychiatrists that provide therepy and counseling to people without a knee-jerk reaction that a desire to be tied up must be the result of repressed date rape syndrome or some other childhood trauma.

Stephan

_____________________________

[GEEK] Me [/GEEK]
"There is always some madness in love, but there is also always some reason in madness" - Nietzsche
[image]http://img2.exs.cx/img2/7251/voltare-death.gif[/image]

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 54
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