RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience

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[Poll]

Money/Prostitution/Experience

I have only online experience.

7% (2)

I have been to a couple of munches.

0% (0)

I have been active in my local BDSM community for less than 6 months.

7% (2)

I have been active in my local BDSM community for less than 1 year.

0% (0)

I have been active in my local BDSM community for 1-2 years.

3% (1)

"" for more than two but less than 5 years.

7% (2)

I've been playing r/t privately for less than a year but not publicly.

7% (2)

I've been playing r/t privately for 1-3 years but not publicly.

23% (6)

I've been playing r/t privately for more than 3 years - not publicly.

34% (9)

I was trained in a euro house, from sub to "Grand Dom/me" 20 yrs ago.

7% (2)

Total Votes : 26

(last vote on : 11/5/2005 4:19:44 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

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RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/3/2005 6:15:23 AM

MizSuz

Posts: 1416
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Paulnz

You've made a good point. I would answer by saying that generally - yes - the dommes fuck and suck. Huge generalisation. In a brothel they would be laughed out the door ( by other girls ) if they didn't fuck and suck, but ultimately the length of their client list would determine their status. I would guess that as brothels are attracting clientele with fucking and sucking in mind, that this would be the norm. The difference to my mind is the domme doesn't fuck and suck as part of the deal. The client only gets it if it pleases Mistress.

Therein lay the difference between NZ and my experience with professional domination in the U.S. I don't know any good professional dominas that fuck and suck in their professional relationships (I know a pretty good number of pro dominas, especially fairly long established dominas). You can rest assured that I do not and did not in my professional relationships. Here a professional domina that fucks and sucks is considered a prostitute with a whip (and with the exception of Nevada - except in Clark County) prostitution is illegal. While I am no expert in the laws of Nevada, I have been told that in Clark County (where Vegas is) flogging is considered a sexual act and therefore flogging for money is prostitution (which is illegal in Clark County). I have not looked this up to confirm it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paulnz

Side Comment ? So which is better, the Red Rooster or the Green Door in Vegas ? I am told the website girlscummingwild.com is filmed at the Green Door and it has play spaces ?

Well, it's been a number of years since I was in Vegas and still more years since the anecdote I spoke of occurred. Once, in a more recent visit to Vegas, I did attend a club that could have been the Green Door but I don't remember for certain. Today I went to their website but didn't recognize the club. It's quite possible it's the same place but they've had enough time to upgrade the facilities. When I went it was sparcely furnished and we were the only people there. I found the staff to be quite friendly and accommodating but, as I said, the facilities were minimalistic. My rememberances of the Red Rooster were that it was significantly bigger and had a lot more of a crowd (the club area had a live band, as well). As I said, this was a number of years ago and things could have changed since then. If the Green Door that I've seen on the net is the same club I visited but with upgraded facilities then I would say my preference would be the Green Door specifically because of the friendliness of the staff and the general cleanliness of the facilities. But then I was put off by the fucking and sucking going on at the Red Rooster and the number of women who were with pimps. As I said, it's been a number of years - so your mileage may vary.

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In honor of the impending ski season: If you're not livin' on the edge you're takin' up too much space!

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Post #: 21

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/3/2005 8:05:36 PM

Paulnz

Posts: 149
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

Therein lay the difference between NZ and my experience with professional domination in the U.S. I don't know any good professional dominas that fuck and suck in their professional relationships (I know a pretty good number of pro dominas, especially fairly long established dominas). You can rest assured that I do not and did not in my professional relationships. Here a professional domina that fucks and sucks is considered a prostitute with a whip (and with the exception of Nevada - except in Clark County) prostitution is illegal. While I am no expert in the laws of Nevada, I have been told that in Clark County (where Vegas is) flogging is considered a sexual act and therefore flogging for money is prostitution (which is illegal in Clark County). I have not looked this up to confirm it.

Well, it's been a number of years since I was in Vegas and still more years since the anecdote I spoke of occurred. Once, in a more recent visit to Vegas, I did attend a club that could have been the Green Door but I don't remember for certain. Today I went to their website but didn't recognize the club. It's quite possible it's the same place but they've had enough time to upgrade the facilities. When I went it was sparcely furnished and we were the only people there. I found the staff to be quite friendly and accommodating but, as I said, the facilities were minimalistic. My rememberances of the Red Rooster were that it was significantly bigger and had a lot more of a crowd (the club area had a live band, as well). As I said, this was a number of years ago and things could have changed since then. If the Green Door that I've seen on the net is the same club I visited but with upgraded facilities then I would say my preference would be the Green Door specifically because of the friendliness of the staff and the general cleanliness of the facilities. But then I was put off by the fucking and sucking going on at the Red Rooster and the number of women who were with pimps. As I said, it's been a number of years - so your mileage may vary.

I should mention that what I know about pro domination could be written on the back of a postage stamp with a builders pencil. What I have found out from one friend who is a pro-domme in the USA does indeed throw up different cultural perspectives. In my head under the general heading of sex industry, all participants are grouped into categories Pimp or Prostitute. I'm basic like that.

I have been to Nevada on a field trip to study the legal brothel industry there and have spoken to brothel owners and workers. Nevada has a much stricter regime. Counties such as Clark can opt out, which is not an option in NZ, while in Nevada soliciting and doing outcalls is against the law. Hence in Vegas the flyers being handed out on the street where the hawkers stand and flick the paper to get your attention. They are also not allowed to block the footpath and are regularly moved by the police ( I have seen this ). Here the transaction can be negotiated in the street, price, level of service, and the contract is legal to boot ( meaning if the Prostitute doesn't do oral for an agreed $80 she could be sued by the client, however she cannot be sued for specific performance - she can change her mind and say no ). Living off the earnings is also now legal here ( Pimping ). The NZ Prostitutes Collective is advising Pimps be referred to as Management to remove the stigma ( Pimps by law are prevented from inducing or compelling prostitutes to work ). Somewhere along the line Nevada got tougher, as outcalls seem to be now forbidden, whereas one former worker told me that outcalls were at one time what marked a girl as being among the best.

The pro-domme I mentioned earlier works in California and she says that what she is doing is considered a misdemeanour by the Justice system, while operating a house is a felony. She doesn't see herself as a Prostitute, but she says the law makes no distinction in reality.

It may well be that the situation has changed vis a vis Red Rooster and the Green Door. I get different accounts from people depending on their bias. In general I prefer Swinger places as the people are friendlier. I don't attend BDSM clubs. The only nice ones I've been to have been in Japan. An amusing experience I had in Vegas was with lap dancing ? I think that is where guys get cock teased and cum in their pants. I went to one such place and kept asking when the sex was going to start. I was told I was just like an Irishman. Sheepshagger. I commented that American men must be premature ejaculators, and one of the girls whispered - they are < wink > What a hoot. I can see lap dancing really taking off in NZ - NOT.

(in reply to MizSuz)

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Post #: 22

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/6/2005 4:42:53 AM

MistressDREAD

Posts: 2326
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Money/Prostitution/Experience

This poll seeks to determine the real-time experience level of those who believe that women who accept money for domination are prostitutes.

Let Me get this straight..................
You want to determine the real time experience level of who? The radical right wing gestapo who thinks woman whom gain funds from other people are prostitutes if they are not doing some type of manual labor that does not use one of their natural features?
Just as many men gain funds for their natural features too and they are not to be equally judged for this?
The only reason that prostitution is looked negitivly down on is not because of the experiance value but of the moral issue attached to it.
Would a Man be so judged a prostitute if He were looked apon negitivly if He used His natural ability to Dominate in the running of any business that others hire?
This is the problem in todays tiimes still in that equal action is not taken towards all in general in what anyone does. A Male CEO of a service industry takes the money of millions for His Dominance and is He deemed a Prostitute of such? No, but let a Woman do the same and She is cut down as being nothing more then Someone whom panders sex for money when this is not the fact.
What experiance anyone has in a Alternate Lifestyle does not weigh on how they look at the Income making workforce I beleive but their morality and what they have been led to beleive in their life does.JMO

< Message edited by MistressDREAD -- 1/6/2005 4:43:34 AM >

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♥A Jaguar in My garage♥ ♥A Mink on My back♥
♥A few Lions in My bed♥ ♥A Jackass to pay for it all♥

♥~smiles evily~♥

(in reply to Paulnz)

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Post #: 23

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/6/2005 6:59:04 PM

MizSuz

Posts: 1416
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Ok, well from the responses garnered on this poll the numbers seem to indicate a concentration of people who play privately and/or are not active in their local "community."

What this proposes, to me, is that people who are not in their community do not have the experience of seeing what experienced professionals bring to the scene. It suggests, to me, that their primary source of 'understanding' the female professional dominant comes from marketing, perhaps on the internet.

There was also the issue of different attitudes and opinions from continents other than North America which tend to suggest that "prostitution" may not have the negative stigma (that we 'enlightened' North Americans place on it) in all parts of "western civilization."

So, my suspicion that people who believe that professional domination is prostitution are novices is not necessarily accurate; but my belief that it's from a lack of exposure to the scene community may have some validity.

I'm trying very hard NOT to say "We're still talking about experience and the lack thereof, only we've narrowed the field in regard to exposure to WHAT."

Free your mind, and the rest will follow......

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In honor of the impending ski season: If you're not livin' on the edge you're takin' up too much space!

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Post #: 24

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/6/2005 7:26:47 PM

Paulnz

Posts: 149
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline

quote:

Ok, well from the responses garnered on this poll the numbers seem to indicate a concentration of people who play privately and/or are not active in their local "community."

What this proposes, to me, is that people who are not in their community do not have the experience of seeing what experienced professionals bring to the scene. It suggests, to me, that their primary source of 'understanding' the female professional dominant comes from marketing, perhaps on the internet.

You imply that all ' experienced professionals ' are good or worthy. I would debate this.

quote:

So, my suspicion that people who believe that professional domination is prostitution are novices is not necessarily accurate; but my belief that it's from a lack of exposure to the scene community may have some validity.

This sounds a little evangelical. Like the primitive natives need to hear the word of God.

quote:

I'm trying very hard NOT to say "We're still talking about experience and the lack thereof, only we've narrowed the field in regard to exposure to WHAT."

It could be people think negatively about a profession due to stereotypes, or as a result of their own negative experience. Sometimes they are right.

(in reply to MizSuz)

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Post #: 25

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/6/2005 9:38:47 PM

MizSuz

Posts: 1416
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paulnz

quote:

Ok, well from the responses garnered on this poll the numbers seem to indicate a concentration of people who play privately and/or are not active in their local "community."

What this proposes, to me, is that people who are not in their community do not have the experience of seeing what experienced professionals bring to the scene. It suggests, to me, that their primary source of 'understanding' the female professional dominant comes from marketing, perhaps on the internet.

You imply that all ' experienced professionals ' are good or worthy. I would debate this.

Newp, no implication intended. Perhaps you infer. I didn't even say that what experienced professionals bring to the scene was good or bad.

I will concede that my own experience probably colors my view, but that includes bad pros as well as good ones. I do know more good pros than bad simply because I tend to turn away from that which I do not care to participate it, or what I would call "bad." Others might disagree and that's ok too.

quote:

quote:

So, my suspicion that people who believe that professional domination is prostitution are novices is not necessarily accurate; but my belief that it's from a lack of exposure to the scene community may have some validity.

This sounds a little evangelical. Like the primitive natives need to hear the word of God.

Did you notice the words "may" and "my belief"? If you mean that I'm taking things on faith, based on my own experience then the answer is to some degree I am, yes (kind of like those who think all prodomination is prostitution). That's why I put it out there for discussion. You'll also note I never claimed it was fact, merely my observation based on my experience and from what I extrapolated from the poll here (certainly a small sample and about as valid as any other poll - which is to say not at all). Now, I do have a little bit of knowledge about the prodomination scene in the U.S. and a smidge of experience with the scene here, too. But it's just my experience, humble as it may be.

I realize most religious fanatics don't need more than that so I can see how you might confuse me for one. As with any religion, you are free to bastardize the original words to whatever suits your immediate need. I'm glad I could help!

quote:

quote:

I'm trying very hard NOT to say "We're still talking about experience and the lack thereof, only we've narrowed the field in regard to exposure to WHAT."

It could be people think negatively about a profession due to stereotypes, or as a result of their own negative experience. Sometimes they are right.

They would be no more "universally correct" than you or I am now.

_____________________________

Suz

In honor of the impending ski season: If you're not livin' on the edge you're takin' up too much space!

(in reply to Paulnz)

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Post #: 26

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/7/2005 2:58:09 AM

Paulnz

Posts: 149
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

It occurred to me in reading your reply, that you've never heard of the 80/20 rule. That is 80% of the revenue is earned by 20% of the people in the business - any business. Applied to pro domination this would mean that 80% of pro-dommes are no good or at least marginal. To test this you could survey the industry to find out how many pro dominants fully earn their primary income from the business. I would estimate that the average is 80% are only in that position for 3 years or less, and that 20% are in the business for longer than 3 years ( this is a sex industry norm worldwide by the way ).

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Post #: 27

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/14/2005 10:02:41 PM

DiamondDiva

Posts: 219
Joined: 10/10/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

I probably should not have answered because I have never done anything sexual for money or anything else. I personally do agree to some point that it borders prostitution. The line however is drawn with the people who are involved.

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" If you are going to play, PLAY hard if not GO HOME!!!

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Post #: 28

RE: Money/Prostitution/Experience - 1/15/2005 4:12:47 AM

Paulnz

Posts: 149
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiamondDiva
The line however is drawn with the people who are involved.

The old saying is " if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, then it's probably a duck. "

From what I can tell, in most jurisdictions where prostitution is illegal, pro domination is considered prostitution. The domme can think she's the tooth fairy but the vice squad will bust her nonetheless. My take on the usual disclaimers of " no sex offered or implied " is it is simply a way to try and avoid capture. In jurisdictions where prostitution is legal, such as New Zealand, Victoria and New South Wales, pro domination tags along as just another service amongst many, right out there in the open trading happily. The disclaimers fade rather fast.

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Post #: 29