RE: Confession and Emotional Health

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RE: Confession and Emotional Health

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RE: Confession and Emotional Health - 1/4/2005 5:13:20 PM

Atavist

Posts: 122
Joined: 6/14/2004
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Medical practitioners have not been able to prove the theory of psychological chemical imbalances needing medication to be corrcted. everyone who thinks they must be medicated for some sort of "chemical imbalance" should educate themselves on the history of the myth of mental illness. the following site is a great place to start:
www.antipsychiatry.org

With all due respect, I think it would be accurate to say that literally millions of people have been helped by the appropriate application of pscho-pharmaceuticals. Of course there are abuses, and these drugs are very likely over-prescribed.

For some people therapy alone just doesn't cut it and the availability of these drugs has been a literal life saver. I can reel off 27 technologies that people abuse or mis-use, but it doesn't follow that we should eliminate them.

Abuse and overuse is a problem and needs to be dealt with, however the bigger problem in our society is the stigma and ignorance associated with mental health care. I worked for a mental health organization for almost ten years. Two of the major issues in mental health today are the stigma problem and the fact that many insurers discriminate against patients by severly limiting the mental health coverage they provide.

Two good sites are:

www.nmha.org (National Mental Health Association)
www.nami.org (National Alliance for the Mentally Ill)

< Message edited by Atavist -- 1/4/2005 5:16:07 PM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 41

RE: Confession and Emotional Health - 1/4/2005 8:04:48 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 2326
Joined: 6/18/2004
From: Palos Verdes Estates
Status: offline

quote:

I think it would be accurate to say that literally millions of people have been helped by the appropriate application of pscho-pharmaceuticals.

and literally millions have been hurt by them as well, however "appropriate" it might seem at the time.

millions of pregnant women were convinced by their doctors and pharmeceutical companies to take a synthetic form of estrogen from 1938 to 1971 that they claimed would ensure them healthy babies, carried to term. when those babies started to drop dead from reproductive organ cancer(1972) they stopped giving it to pregnant women.

all too often folks are willing to turn to the pill bottle and refuse to even try natural remedies or behavioral therapy for their physical and/or mental problems. this slave was quite fortunately allergic to many of them and stumbled upon alternative therapies and natural remedies in a quest for relief from chronic pain and other delibilitating symptoms over 10 years ago when the doctors had nothing more to offer but toxic pharmeceuticals, which was how they began the whole process that caused the medical problems this slave has to begin with, in the womb.

what we need are advocates that will stand up and insist that we stop being guinea pigs for the pharmaceutical companies at the hands of the doctors we allegedly are supposed to trust and who pledge to do no harm.

_____________________________

Merc & beth

"The words printed here are concepts. You must go through the experiences." - Saint Augustine

(in reply to Atavist)

Post #: 42

RE: Confession and Emotional Health - 1/4/2005 8:15:08 PM

bottominwa

Posts: 240
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline

Amen!

As a military wife for ten years the standard cocktail to prescribe to wives as the deployments start these days is celexa, with a chaser of vallium so they can sleep. This girl has of yet managed in her ten year tenure as an Army wife and numerous deployments managed to tell three such psychiatrists to shove their medication up their proverbial ass....she refuses to be heavily sedated just to live her life...fuck that is right, Amen!

Moreover she has seen so much damage done to the physical well being of women on antidepressants and sleeping pills....enough to fill a huge dialogue on the down sides of over prescribing medication...ADDICTIVE medication. Not to mention the children neglected by heavily sedated mothers.

This girl's only motto has been this is my life...pain, sorrow, heart ache, endless nights of fear....so be it...these are still the days of her life...and as Natalie Merchant said "she chooses to remember" them.

Whatever happened to the idea that hardship builds character or karma even? No, now we just medicate our way through our existence....again...fuck that!

she wanted to add its a bot of a running joke, but sadly standard knowledge in the military community if you want speed just go to the behavioural therapy clinic and tell them your husband is being delpoyed...they hand it out like candy...some sort of grand panacea to the life we live. Lets face it we live an anxiety filled existence as military families....medicating that doesn't change anything, it just creates the facade that things are ok....and this girl is not alice and she chooses to live on"this" side of the looking glass thank you very much.

she prefers exercise for anxiety and warm milk and hot soaks for sleepless nights...her record is three days with no sleep at all during the Big roll up to Baghdad...but she has foudn eventually one will sleep without medication.

sabrina King

House of King

< Message edited by bottominwa -- 1/4/2005 8:22:08 PM >

(in reply to DomButNotForgotn)

Post #: 43

RE: Confession and Emotional Health - 1/4/2005 8:31:47 PM

Atavist

Posts: 122
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

I understand your viewpoint, apparently born out of some bad experiences which I'm sorry you had to go through. I'm simply saying yours is one perspective among many.

The solution is probably in the middle somewhere. The pharma companys are about making money for their shareholders, period. I wouldn't trust em as far as I can throw a case of Celebrex.

On the other hand, its reasonable to submit that doctors are generally dedicated to providing quality health care for their patients. This is still a free country (another subject for another time), individuals have the right --and the responsibility-- to make informed choices. The information is there for those that make the effort to ask questions, do a little research. Does it work perfectly? No. Are vastly more people helped by these drugs than hurt? I suspect the answer is overwhelmingly yes.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 44

RE: Confession and Emotional Health - 1/4/2005 8:48:01 PM

Atavist

Posts: 122
Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

the history of the myth of mental illness

Curious, what do you mean by the "myth of mental illness"?

Websters defines myth as: A fiction or half-truth, especially one that forms part of an ideology.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 45

RE: Confession and Emotional Health - 1/5/2005 8:32:46 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 2326
Joined: 6/18/2004
From: Palos Verdes Estates
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quote:

Curious, what do you mean by the "myth of mental illness"?

this slave was suggesting a website so folks could consider a few truths that were brought to the attention of the psychiatric community and the world by Thomas Szasz through the publication of his 1961 manifesto for psychiatric patient's rights, aptly named, "The Myth of Mental Illness".

"Thomas Szasz is Professor of Psychiatry Emeritus at the State University of New York Health Science Center in Syracuse, New York, Adjunct Scholar at the Cato Institute, Washington, D.C., author and lecturer. His classic "The Myth of Mental Illness" (1961) made him a figure of international fame and controversy. Many of his works--such as Law, Liberty, and Psychiatry, The Ethics of Psychoanalysis, Ceremonial Chemistry, and Our Right to Drugs--are regarded as among the most influential in the 20th century by leaders in medicine, law, and the social sciences."
(http://www.szasz.com)

quote:

Websters defines myth as: A fiction or half-truth, especially one that forms part of an ideology.

Szasz defines mental illness as: "a metaphor (metaphorical disease). The word "disease" denotes a demonstrable biological process that affects the bodies of living organisms (plants, animals, and humans). The term "mental illness" refers to the undesirable thoughts, feelings, and behaviors of persons. Classifying thoughts, feelings, and behaviors as diseases is a logical and semantic error, like classifying the whale as a fish. As the whale is not a fish, mental illness is not a disease. Individuals with brain diseases (bad brains) or kidney diseases (bad kidneys) are literally sick. Individuals with mental diseases (bad behaviors), like societies with economic diseases (bad fiscal policies), are metaphorically sick. The classification of (mis)behavior as illness provides an ideological justification for state-sponsored social control as medical treatment." (http://www.szasz.com)

quote:

I understand your viewpoint, apparently born out of some bad experiences which I'm sorry you had to go through. I'm simply saying yours is one perspective among many.

thankfully this slave is not the first or only one with this viewpoint. this slave also believes that there are natural remedies and alternative therapies beneficial to one's physical health and management of chronic pain. Is it reasonable to assume that those who are "trusting" their doctor and getting their quick-fix in a jar MIGHT be helped by something that is not provided by a pharmaceutical company? How many folks do you know who don't even bother to try? Amazingly, faced with true life horror stories that are played out in the courtroom or investigating cases quietly swept under the rug with multi-million dollar settlements after the offending substance is eventually pulled off the shelf or off of the prescription pad, we collectively gobble up more toxic pills.

Someone who lived in Nazi Germany and was well-adjusted to it was "mentally healthy" judged by the values of his own society. Judged by the values of a society which respects human rights he was as sick (metaphorically speaking) as the rest of his culture. A person like myself however says that such a person is morally "sick" and recognizes the word sick, not its literal but a metaphorical meaning. To a person who believes in the myth of mental illness, such a person is literally sick and needs a doctor. The difference is that a person like this slave is recognizing values for what they are: morality. Typically, the believer in mental illness, has the same values as this slave does but is confusing them with health.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 1/5/2005 1:38:32 PM >

_____________________________

Merc & beth

"The words printed here are concepts. You must go through the experiences." - Saint Augustine

(in reply to Atavist)

Post #: 46

RE: Confession and Emotional Health - 1/5/2005 10:33:41 AM

sweetpleaser

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From: Florida
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This was a very informative post beth. I understand the distinction put forth here regarding mental illness being behavioral, but couldn't that behavior stem from a "bad brain"? (i.e. not enough seratonin produced)
Also, I am concerned about all the people who self-medicate with alcohol and/or drugs because they don't want to face the stigma of seeing a doctor. I've known many and it is far worse of a monkey on your back, believe me. These poor souls end up wishing they were dead. Maybe there would have been a controlled atmosphere if they had sought a psychiatrist.

I still stick to my belief that meds can help those who have tried everything else first.

< Message edited by sweetpleaser -- 1/5/2005 10:34:54 AM >

_____________________________

~ann~

It's not the men in my life that count, it's the life in my men.--Mae West

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 47

RE: Confession and Emotional Health - 1/5/2005 6:35:35 PM

Atavist

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Joined: 6/14/2004
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Interesting discussion.

Your reference to Szasz prompted me to do a bit of reading. I found some of the archived debate transcripts on Szasz's web site illuminating. Szasz as you know is a libertarian, which apparently informs and shapes his thesis regarding mental illness. Although I generally agree that maximizing personal liberty is a very good thing, I have a few problems with what Szasz espouses. It should be noted that although he made quite a stir nearly 45 years ago when "The Myth of Mental Illness" was published, an incredible amount of knowledge has been accumulated since then and his views have been largely disgarded -

"Now, more than three decades later, Scheff, Szasz, Laing, and their colleagues are no longer fixtures in psychology and sociology courses. Most college and graduate students have never heard of them or their argument that mental illness is a socially derived myth. Academic critics have picked their arguments apart, and though Szasz, for one, is entirely unrepentant, many theorists who denied the existence of mental illness three decades ago are somewhat embarrassed now about their former beliefs."
--P.S. Appelbaum. Almost a Revolution: Mental Health Law and the Limits of Change. New York: Oxford University Press, 1994.

"Most of Szasz's ideas of the mythical nature of mental illness have been rendered obsolete by genetic studies, imagin, cross-cultural anthropology and the like. While many legal scholars see him as important to that field, the damage he has done to care of the mentally ill has not been carefully assessed and cannot be overestimated. Well-meaning but misguided advocates following his leads have trashed mental health delivery systems in state after state and have clearly contributed to the adversarialization of the mental health advocacy systems. More clearly venal forces from Ronald Reagan to Scientology have been able to draw on his "teachings" to support their causes, again to the detriment of patients.
My own view is that he was popular as a sixties kind of guy, an anti-establishment rebel where the facts he distored were not a problem for the political force of his claims; any smidgin of value he could have had is long eclipsed, and, except as a trip down memory lane..."
--Jeffery A Shaler, Ph.D.
School of Public Affairs
American University

Both cites above are actually on the Szasz website.

A central thesis of Szasz's was that "mental illness" is not an illness at all since there is no evidence of underlying biological pathology associated with schizophrenia, drpression, etc. That may have been true in 1961 but modern imaging techniques have proven that there are clear brain abnormalities in people suffering from schizophrenia and bipolar disorder (manic-depressive illness).

Szasz goes on to say that depression, schizophrenia, etc. merely differences in perception, states of mind, and to some extent choices. Sticking to his libertarian philosophy (to the extreme) he contends that that people with mental difficulties are essentially responsible for their illness, that for example, insanity doesn't exist. Putting aside the debate over the "insanity defense" (which is overblown and rarely used) if Szasz's beliefs were accepted, few people (the well to do) if any would have access to mental health care since insurance companies don't generally cover treatments for a non-illness's.

Szasz is an extremist. His views on involuntary commitment are also pretty interesting. Perhaps a subject for another day.

(in reply to sweetpleaser)

Post #: 48

RE: Confession and Emotional Health - 1/6/2005 8:28:57 AM

Mercnbeth

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From: Palos Verdes Estates
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let's leave debating Szasz's political theories and the ramifications of forced psychiatric treatment aside...the OP is to be commended for encouraging folks to look at an alternative therapy(confession) instead of blindly accepting their Doctor's prescriptions and causing more harm than good. this slave, for one, has been greatly helped by NOT taking the advice of the doctor handing out pills.

quote:

individuals have the right --and the responsibility-- to make informed choices. The information is there for those that make the effort to ask questions, do a little research.

this is exactly what this slave was encouraging people to do, not just take their doctor's word for it, but to ask themselves if they are willing to put their lives on the line trusting their doctor and taking that toxic pill, or try something else, that has worked just as well if not better for countless others suffering from the same symptoms?

quote:

That may have been true in 1961 but modern imaging techniques have proven that there are clear brain abnormalities in people suffering from schizophrenia and bipolar disorder (manic-depressive illness).

modern imaging techniques have proven nothing. these quotes can be found at the website this slave encourages folks to visit:
www.antipsychiatry.org

"First, no biological etiology has been proven for any psychiatric disorder (except Alzheimer's disease, which has a genetic component) in spite of decades of research. ... So don't accept the myth that we can make an 'accurate diagnosis.' ... Neither should you believe that your problems are due solely to a 'chemical imbalance.'" Edward Drummond, M.D., Associate Medical Director at Seacoast Mental Health Center in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, in his book The Complete Guide to Psychiatric Drugs (John Wiley & Sons, Inc., New York, 2000), pages 15-16. Dr. Drummond graduated from Tufts University School of Medicine and was trained in psychiatry at Harvard University.

"...there are no external validating criteria for psychiatric diagnoses. There is neither a blood test nor specific anatomic lesions for any major psychiatric disorder." From a letter dated December 4, 1998 by Loren R. Mosher, M.D., a psychiatrist, resigning from the American Psychiatric Association.

"At least one brain-scan study (using positron emission tomography or PET scans) found that simply asking normal people to imagine or recall a situation that would make them feel very sad resulted in significant changes in blood flow in the brain (Jose V. Pardo, M.D., Ph.D., et al., "Neural Correlates of Self-Induced Dysphoria", American Journal of Psychiatry, May 1993, p. 713)."

"Brain scans cannot distinguish a depressed person from a nondepressed person and they have not located a cause for any psychiatric disorder. Indeed, they are mainly used in biopsychiatry to promote the profession to lay audiences by giving the false impression that radiological technology can distinguish between normal people and those with psychiatric diagnoses. The usual sleight of hand involves comparing photographs of a brain scan of a depressed patient and a nondepressed patient where there happen to be other differences between the two brains. Sometimes the differences simply reflect normal variation and sometimes they reflect drug damage. Brain scans cannot show differences between the brains of depressed and normal patients because no such differences have been demonstrated." Peter R. Breggin, M.D., in his book Reclaiming Our Children (Perseus Books, Cambridge, Mass., 2000), page 293.

"A serotonin deficiency for depression has not been found. ... Still, patients are often given the impression that a definitive serotonin deficiency in depression is firmly established. ... The result is an undue inflation of the drug market, as well as an unfortunate downplaying of the need for psychological treatments for many patients." Joseph Glenmullen, M.D., clinical instructor in psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, in his book Prozac Backlash (Simon & Schuster, New York, 2000), pages 197-198.

_____________________________

Merc & beth

"The words printed here are concepts. You must go through the experiences." - Saint Augustine

(in reply to Atavist)

Post #: 49

RE: Confession and Emotional Health - 1/6/2005 8:06:57 PM

Atavist

Posts: 122
Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

the OP is to be commended for encouraging folks to look at an alternative therapy(confession) instead of blindly accepting their Doctor's prescriptions and causing more harm than good. this slave, for one, has been greatly helped by NOT taking the advice of the doctor handing out pills.

Nobody's suggesting that patients should blindly follow their doctor's recommendations. People should have a choice, based on the facts, without pressure from anyone. If the treatment works, if it makes you happier and healthier, I don't really care how you get there.

quote:

Atavist - individuals have the right --and the responsibility-- to make informed choices. The information is there for those that make the effort to ask questions, do a little research.

quote:

this is exactly what this slave was encouraging people to do, not just take their doctor's word for it, but to ask themselves if they are willing to put their lives on the line trusting their doctor and taking that toxic pill, or try something else, that has worked just as well if not better for countless others suffering from the same symptoms?

I'm glad we can agree on this.

quote:

modern imaging techniques have proven nothing.

Your entitled to your opinion, of course, but the facts dont support this. There are literally hundreds of emperical studies worldwide that prove brain abnormalities in schizophrenia and bi-polar patients exist. Go to the American Medical Association's web site and search their archives if you care to see some of them - http://pubs.ama-assn.org/search.dtl

A Few Sample Studies - Including images

http://www.loni.ucla.edu/Research/Projects/COS.html
http://synapse.hitchcock.org/projects/psychiatric.shtml
http://brain.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/124/5/882
http://www.moodswing.org/disease.htm

I suppose we could argue this forever to no avail so I'll end my piece here.

From my limited experience, mental illness is definitely not a myth, its real and it causes an incredible amount of carnage. To label schizophrenia and other serious disorders a non-illness implies that the individual bears responsibility for something which they have absolutely no control over.

Not only does this defy the facts (some people still insist that the earth is flat), its incredibly cruel. I'm sure you don't intend it that way.

Assume that Szasz's "mythology" views were not repudiated and were accepted as gospel. Mental health coverage for millions of people would evaporate. On top of that, society would heap another load of guilt on people already feeling pretty sh*tty about themselves. I don't see how any of this would help anyone.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 50

RE: Confession and Emotional Health - 1/7/2005 8:12:08 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 2326
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From: Palos Verdes Estates
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quote:

There are literally hundreds of emperical studies worldwide that prove brain abnormalities in schizophrenia and bi-polar patients exist.

For consideration....

"A glass of wine a day is healthy." - Study funded by the American Wine Growers Assoc.
"BMW drivers get the most sex." - Study funded by the German Auto Manufacturers.
"Milk does a body good." - Study funded by the American Dairy Association.

I bet if bullet manufacturers conducted a study having lead injected into you at high speed may sometimes be beneficial. There is a common theme of self serving prophecy.

I point this out because in the content of your post you identified as working for a Mental Health organization. No one wants their life avocation attacked. I'm not, I'm just saying that alternate methods should be considered.

The business plan for pharmaceutical firms is, design a pill, and then go searching for a disease to 'cure'. Lacking a real disease they get together with the AMA and create one, or better yet, the idea of one. Then the AMA becomes the 'enforcement arm of the drug companies.

Born in the 50's there weren't ADD kids - only misbehaving ones. But then, there was no Ritalin to prescribe. Would there be 100,000 kids, and now I guess adults too, per year diagnosed with this disease if the pharmaceutical companies didn't have a pill to sell?

_____________________________

Merc & beth

"The words printed here are concepts. You must go through the experiences." - Saint Augustine

(in reply to Atavist)

Post #: 51

RE: Confession and Emotional Health - 1/7/2005 12:22:13 PM

Atavist

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Joined: 6/14/2004
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LOL. I worked at a health policy center for 9 years as their IT director. I'm not a mental health practitioner and it certainly isn't my vocation or avocation. I work for a software development company now. I certainly have no vested interest in pharmaceuticals or any other medical institution.

Much if not most of the research (including several examples that I gave you) are being done by independant universities, the NIMH and other non-partisan centers of research, not the pharmaceutical companies, so your analogies are misplaced.

You keep saying alternate methods should be considered and I keep agreeing with you. It seems the difference is that you want them considered to the exclusion of all else. Thats where we disagree.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 52

RE: Confession and Emotional Health - 1/7/2005 3:53:31 PM

Mercnbeth

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From: Palos Verdes Estates
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quote:

It seems the difference is that you want them considered to the exclusion of all else.

the PROBLEM is that the pharmaceutical choice is too often the first and only thing doctors and others giving advice advocate. their are quite a few folks out there who have had horrible experiences from the meds they took in good faith from their doctors, some are dead and can't comment, however. those of us that remain behind encourage folks to try alternative therapies and natural remedies FIRST, instead of suggesting one take their chances on the roulette wheel of toxic pharmaceuticals.

_____________________________

Merc & beth

"The words printed here are concepts. You must go through the experiences." - Saint Augustine

(in reply to Atavist)

Post #: 53

RE: Confession and Emotional Health - 1/14/2005 5:36:02 PM

txparanoid

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I'd like to take a moment to say that there really are times - and places - when medication is nessessary for some places.

But I suspect that in many - if not most - cases diagnosed as depression, it may not be depression at all but that life really is that depressing.

I thought I had depression. All the doctors thought I had depression - and that my natural state as a person was to be depressed.

But when I moved away from my parents, it just turned out not to be true. I'm a naturally -happy- person who just had a really repressed and depressing life. I'm just glad I finally got out. So many people don't.

(in reply to alwayzron)

Post #: 54

Mental Health & BDSM - 1/15/2005 8:33:22 AM

LadyShoshin

Posts: 480
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline

I have talked to many people in the BDSM community who have stress related illness, they are reluctant to discuss their lifestyle with their mental health care provider. There seemed to be a need for a place kinksters could talk and offer support, I created a Yahoo group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mooddisordersupportdomsub/ This group is for people who are into D/s or S/M while dealing with mood disorders like depression, anxiety, panic attacks, stress related diseases etc.

It is more difficult to cope if you feel alone with the problem. Talking with someone going through similar issues can be of help.

This is not intended to be a medical, diagnostic or treatment resource. If you need such resources I strongly urge you to talk to your doctor.

We do not recommend one treatment modality over another, we support people in whatever way they are finding that promotes their mental health.

_____________________________

PHLOX: “It’s unethical for a doctor to cause harm...I can inflict as much pain as I like.”

(in reply to txparanoid)

Post #: 55

RE: Confession and Emotional Health - 1/15/2005 10:13:17 AM

MizSuz

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

It seems the difference is that you want them considered to the exclusion of all else.

the PROBLEM is that the pharmaceutical choice is too often the first and only thing doctors and others giving advice advocate. their are quite a few folks out there who have had horrible experiences from the meds they took in good faith from their doctors, some are dead and can't comment, however. those of us that remain behind encourage folks to try alternative therapies and natural remedies FIRST, instead of suggesting one take their chances on the roulette wheel of toxic pharmaceuticals.

I am bipolar (type 2, rapid, mixed cycles), I am medicated (by a psychiatrist) and I have a therapist (who happens to be a PhD).

I have run a considerable gamut with meditation, exercise, diet, massage therapies of different modalities, homeopathic remedies...I could go on. All of the alternatives were helpful in controlling the stress and anxiety aspects of the disorder and, therefore, were valid and helpful. None of them did the trick in totality, at least not for me. I also know a number of other individuals who would tell you the same thing, from their own experience.

It's a pretty safe bet to say that I am not one to run from my issues or baggage (confession). Understanding myself is a key part of my health and one only need to peruse my posts to see that I advocate the same to everyone.

15 years ago I was misdiagnosed as being clinically depressed (by a general practitioner) and given medications that only made things worse in spite of DAILY use of the above mentioned alternatives and psychology/therapy sessions as often as 3 times a week. Psychiatrists (the kind that write scripts) of the day poo-pooed the notion that I might be a "soft bipolar" - a term I read about in the doctoral thesis of a woman who was studying transpersonal psychology. This is a pretty common story among people who are type 2 bipolar, actually. 15 years ago there was no such thing as anything but what we now call type 1 bipolar. Now we know more and I'm sure that in 15 more years we'll learn that what we think is correct now, isn't.

I recently told my son that, while we have spent our lives cultivating a "hammer" as a tool, to build a house one must have more than a hammer in their toolbox. Societal stigma regarding mental health only serves to minimize an individual's toolbox and therefore diminishes their ability to build a house with a strong foundation.

I agree that medication is not the only answer, nor is it an answer unto itself. I vehemently disagree with the notion that, because it's not a universal answer, it has no merit at all. Doctors and therapists are well educated consultants but the final responsibility for our well being and health lay with us. It is incumbent upon the individual to take responsibility in their own health care and to do their own research; to find what works for them and to constantly look for ways to refine it.

Psychosis, however, can greatly hamper that process. Unless you have been psychotic there is no way for you to understand what kind of hurdle that can be. To suggest that all psychosis is simply an unwillingness to address inner demons only serves to demonize the sufferer and adds no value, save to create more hurdles the sufferer must overcome.

Do I think that medication is the quick fix? Most definitely not (and only the person who has not had to endure titrating these medications to a helpful level would think so). Do I think it can help? You bet. As with all things, balance is the key.

While my 'hammer' is indeed a well cultivated tool, it's not the only implement in my arsenal.

_____________________________

Suz

In honor of the impending ski season: If you're not livin' on the edge you're takin' up too much space!

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 56

RE: Confession and Emotional Health - 1/15/2005 11:42:39 PM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 1216
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

the PROBLEM is that the pharmaceutical choice is too often the first and only thing doctors and others giving advice advocate. their are quite a few folks out there who have had horrible experiences from the meds they took in good faith from their doctors

UnlikeSuz, I am unipolar...I am never manic. Clinical Depression is just that, and I have taken the meds in good faith, and had all the side effects outweigh the benefits to the extent they don't work! Disordered brain, diisordered nervous sytem and disordered GI system. Been told I should have been dead long ago, but I am a survivor and I'm still alive and kickin'. I do whatever I need to and have the ability to do.
I am all for homeopathics where possible. I have spent as much time learning as possible about alternative methods of handling the anxiety, panic, stress, depression, et al. It is a physical illness.
Mercnbeth, My question is this...tell Me where I can get the homeopathic meds (St. John's Wort, for example?) as inexpensively as I can get a script filled with My insurance at the local pharmacy. It is unfortunate that the AMA and the HMO's will not recognize the benefits of herbal/homeopathic meds, and simple economics force many of us to take what is the most financially feasible. I am the side effect queen! I hate it. Even worse, I really hate all the ads on TV touting the latest and greatest medication for the newest and most fashionable illnesses. I don't choose to have this problem, and I certainly fight with every weapon at My command. And that includes self-hypnosis, bio-feedback, relaxation breathing and more. It is what it is. I will not give in to it.
Lady Shoshin, I will be coming into your group!

_____________________________

Dusty
Please do not get caught in that place where you think you know. Zen
Don't put Me up on a pedestal if all you want to do is look up My skirt
http://www.nitetflirt.com/Dustygold Hypnosis available
http://www.geocities.com/goddessdustygold

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 57

RE: Confession and Emotional Health - 1/16/2005 9:53:16 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 2326
Joined: 6/18/2004
From: Palos Verdes Estates
Status: offline

quote:

Mercnbeth, My question is this...tell Me where I can get the homeopathic meds (St. John's Wort, for example?) as inexpensively as I can get a script filled with My insurance at the local pharmacy. It is unfortunate that the AMA and the HMO's will not recognize the benefits of herbal/homeopathic meds, and simple economics force many of us to take what is the most financially feasible.

It is not merely unfortunate, it is purposeful. One cannot obtain a trademark or copyright on a natural product, thereby making them the exclusive purveyor of the substance. By denouncing herbal/homeopathic meds and refusing to accept that their efficacy is just as good or better than pharmaceutically produced toxins, they show favor to the pharmaceutical industry, not the well being of their patients. Anyone who does not believe that the pharmaceutical industry, AMA and FDA are in bed together for the benefit of the industry, not the consumer, is sadly mistaken. Making something that is ultimately bad for you easier to obtain than that which is a better choice is a good marketing strategy for those who could care less about the long-term or even short-term effect on your health. It might be the same reason Kool-Aid is cheaper than Fruit Juice.

Speaking of Kool-Aid.....
"Additive side effects are more common than most people(and many doctors) imagine, but they are ususally assumed to be symptoms of other diseases and treated as such. This is easy to understand, since Swiss cheese sandwiches for lunch would seem unlikely to be responsible for your migraines, but they could be!!
Symptom: Depression...Possible Additive Culprit: Benzaldehyde; benzyl alcohol; butyl acetate.

Symptom: GI upset or pain....Possible Additive Culprit: acetic acid; aloe extract; aluminum nicotinate; aluminum potassium sulfate; aluminum chloride; ammonium bicarbonate; benzoic acid; calcium chloride; calcium disodium EDTA; calcium gluconate; cayenne pepper(capsicum); guar gum; monopotassium glutamate; polyoxyethylene stearates; potassium bromate; potassium chloride; potassium hydroxide; potassium nitrate; propyl gallate; sodium and potassium polyphosphates; sodium carbonate; all sulfites; synthetic "coal tar" or azo dyes; tartaric acid.

..from the book "Unsafe at any Meal" by Dr. Earl Mindell, R. Ph, PHD

Another excellent book regarding strategies for preventing and treating 50 common diseases through nutrition: "The Nutrition Prescription" by Dr. Brian L.G. Morgan

unfortunately, this slave does not have any links or sources for where to legally purchase herbs that would guarantee to be cheaper than whatever your prescription is costing. it would be fantastic if we could choose either at the same cost, however, this slave is absolutely sure that the pharmaceutical companies don't want to lose $1 of profit. ultimately, the best thing to do, is grow your own. Take a look at who is opposed to "medicinal marijuana". If someone finds relief from their chronic condition through marijuana, why shouldn't they be allowed to grow it and ingest it? Bottom Line: doctor visits might not be as frequent(less money for the members of the AMA)the number of prescriptions for pain meds, anti-nauseants, anti-inflammitories, even physotropic drugs would decline(less money for the pharmaceutical industry), not to mention Law Enforcement would have to stop arresting people and taking their posessions and selling them for profit, CAMP would have to disband, and what would those officers do, have to worry about catching authentically dangerous criminals?

Thanks to "good" insurance, this slave had been misdiagnosed by no less than 4 doctors before it became necessary to open her up and see what all the commotion was about. During the misdiagnosis time, this slave was written prescriptions for all manner of drugs relating to GI tract, anti-anxiety, anti-nauseants, synthetic hormones, mood "enhancers", anti-depressants and pain killers. they were all too happy to write out a prescription for whatever "might" help. We don't have "health care" in our society, we have "disease care". After years of staying off the medical radar, this slave went back in to the doctor's office to see if they had anything new to offer and was advised by the doctor to "manage my symptoms" as best as this slave could because they had no other answer, only a list of drugs that at that time were considered safe(since then, 2 of them have been considered "unsafe"). so this slave went back to the alternative therapies and herbal remedies that have kept her at such a level of functioning so as not to be disabled or considered so. Most people have no clue that this slave suffers from what they would deem a physical or mental illness.

Mom has been a nurse since before they came out with anibiotics. Upon questioning the integrity of our current indoctrination of medical "science" and those who refer to themselves as "Doctor", Mom gave this advice:
"Just like lawyers, that's why they refer to what they do as a practice".

Last but not least, thanks to Lady Shoshin for creating a support group!

_____________________________

Merc & beth

"The words printed here are concepts. You must go through the experiences." - Saint Augustine

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

Post #: 58

RE: Confession and Emotional Health - 1/18/2005 1:50:19 PM

ruffnecksbabygir

Posts: 412
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Moreover she has seen so much damage done to the physical well being of women on antidepressants and sleeping pills....enough to fill a huge dialogue on the down sides of over prescribing medication...ADDICTIVE medication. Not to mention the children neglected by heavily sedated mothers.

i can speak from personal experience on this topic, as i already have before, i take paxil, which is basically an anti-depressant .... it does not sedate me in the least, on the contrary i feel just fine, after many years of depression, anxiety and severe life debilitating panic attacks, i have been able to once again be a regular person, drive my car, go to the super market, to a mall, be a good mom, have a job, all the things that normal people do and take for granted, at one point i was unable to do.... so, i thank God each day for paxil!! it gave me my life back, and there was no confession, or therapy in the world that was able to help me out....and yes i did try, but unless you have been in the shoes of a person who has suffered with a mental illness or emotional problem, there is no way in hell that you could ever understand, let alone condemn medications that do help so many....sure, it can be abused, like any other drug, but that's more of the exception than the rule.

_____________________________

~hugs~
Babygirl

:Disclaimer: The above is only this slave's opinion:

"And Those Who Danced Were Thought To Be Quite Insane By Those Who Could Not Hear The Music" -- Angela Monet

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 59

RE: Confession and Emotional Health - 1/20/2005 9:54:33 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 2326
Joined: 6/18/2004
From: Palos Verdes Estates
Status: offline

quote:

unless you have been in the shoes of a person who has suffered with a mental illness or emotional problem, there is no way in hell that you could ever understand

this slave has had life-long first hand experience and that is EXACTLY why this slave has formed the opinions she has and tries to encourage as many people as she can to get out of the pill bottle.

Just think, if they hadn't taken homosexuality out of the DSM-IV back in 1972 maybe there would be yet another toxic drug on the market touted as a "cure" for the "mentally ill" who have the "disease of homosexuality". for sure they would have a special name for it....Sexual Identity Disorder perhaps? Or maybe they would decide it is best to perform surgery and remove the "gay" part of their brains.

_____________________________

Merc & beth

"The words printed here are concepts. You must go through the experiences." - Saint Augustine

(in reply to ruffnecksbabygir)

Post #: 60

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