Honesty, Trust, integerity and morality. (Full Version)

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Bunkerchief -> Honesty, Trust, integerity and morality. (3/1/2006 5:23:28 AM)


Honesty, Trust, integerity and morality. I've heard these terms bandied about the scene for the couple of years I've been into BDSM but I wonder how much people really stop to consider what they really mean and entail.

The reason I ask, is that a couple of years ago I had an online relationship with a woman who never stopped using these terms and said I should internalise them as if I didn't have any honesty, trust, integrity and morality. During this three year relationship in which we never met in person for many reasons but mostly because she required me to fullfill some conditions I thought were asking too much of me without some commitment from her, she was always pressing the importance of the meaning of these words.

In the end I was really quite crazy about this woman and took it at face value that she believed in the power of these words that she always insisted I should internalise. To cut a long story short, I eventually fullfilled her conditions to meet which cost me a lot both in finacial terms and more important in breaking many important relationships. Once I fullfilled these conditions of hers, she turned round and told me she owed me nothing and she had changed her mind about meeting me some six months earlier when she had got a promotion at work. Now if she told me at the time I would have understood her change of heart. It seems the only one that was honest, was trusting and had intergrity and morality was me.

In this six months we discussed my fullfilling these conditions, some I could understand, some I put down to her eccentricities, she even sent me sexual photos (which she often did) as though to promise me what I was going to get when we met (Nothing like being led by the cock until you wake up and realise it). However, soon as we were free to meet she turned and completely changed personality. I ended up pursuing her for an apology to no avail and quite lost it at times though some terrible things that had nothing to do with this were impacting on me at the same time. Talk about everything coming at once.

In the meantime I discovered she was playing with other men online so I guess I was just a sucker and I guess she was saying the same things to them. I've since heard of quite a stories similar to mine suffered by people in online relationships, thankfully seldom in r/l relationships which is all I am interested in now and I'm wondering if when people use these words they really believe in them or do they just use them because they think a partner of potential partner wants to hear them. They are so often used in the BDSM world I get the feeling they are spouted a little too glibly without the speaker or the listener really being aware of them.

Many people in their personal adds ask for honesty and I later came across a personal ad of this woman's who put as a deal breaker, dishonesty, dishonesty, dishonesty...did I mention dishonesty? Which made me gaffaw until I thought that some other person could be applying for the same terrible experience as me.



IrishMist -> RE: Honesty, Trust, integerity and morality. (3/1/2006 5:26:46 AM)

And?................

I am sorry, but I don't understand the reason for this post?



Bunkerchief -> RE: Honesty, Trust, integerity and morality. (3/1/2006 5:29:40 AM)

Just wondering if people really believe in these words when they use them or do they think it is necessary to use them to have credibilty with a potential partner or play mate.

OK I'm asking people to be seriously candid and I can't imagine too many people saying of course I use these words as a tool to attract a partner for fun but who knows?



RavenMuse -> RE: Honesty, Trust, integerity and morality. (3/1/2006 5:30:29 AM)

It is an unfortunate reality of life, not just of the net, that until you have built up enough knowledge of the person to be able to trust then "Honesty" is just a word and unfortunatly one all too often misused.

It leaves people like you and I who look for that honesty and give it in return open to quite a few kickings before we finaly find someone who actualy means it.

But I guess I'm just too damn stubourn to let the others get me to stop looking for it and I keep on picking myself back up, dusting my self off and getting out there to look for it again. Its gotta be out there somewhere[:)]



IrishMist -> RE: Honesty, Trust, integerity and morality. (3/1/2006 5:55:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bunkerchief

Just wondering if people really believe in these words when they use them or do they think it is necessary to use them to have credibilty with a potential partner or play mate.

OK I'm asking people to be seriously candid and I can't imagine too many people saying of course I use these words as a tool to attract a partner for fun but who knows?


Ahhh ok. For myself, yes, I believe in those words, and they are things that I try to employ every day.

Do I believe someone right off the bat when they say that they too have and value these? Until proven wrong, yes.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Honesty, Trust, integerity and morality. (3/1/2006 5:59:24 AM)

The more people talk and holler about what others should do, the more they feel they lack in it themselves. "What you resist, persists" in a certain way.

This isn't universally true of course, but it's a good guideline to have.



RavenMuse -> RE: Honesty, Trust, integerity and morality. (3/1/2006 6:11:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist
Do I believe someone right off the bat when they say that they too have and value these? Until proven wrong, yes.


It is difficult sometimes not to get too jaded and start thinking that you'll never find anyone actualy honest. But thing is that they ARE out there, somewhere and if you don't make yourself take that chance then you only shoot yourself in the foot because then you'd likely never find what your looking for.



FangsNfeet -> RE: Honesty, Trust, integerity and morality. (3/1/2006 6:14:44 AM)

I read your rant. Were you the sub in this online relationship? I'm curios because is surely sounds like it as you seem to be more envolved in meeting her demands.

Nuts and bolts, nuts and bolts, you got SCREWED!!!!

From now on you should know that any and all "online" relationships should only be for chit chat and flirting. After all, you can't have a real relationship untill you have really been together. You really put up with three years of this bull shit? All these excusses for never meeting each other sound like a bunch of excusses that one or both of you had something to hide. You should have smelled the bull shit atleast within the first year.



JohnWarren -> RE: Honesty, Trust, integerity and morality. (3/1/2006 6:30:55 AM)

Why should people in the scene, and in particularly, the online scene be any better than those you meet in a supermarket.

Far from reassuring me, repeated use of the words in your post's title, particularly used in self reference, would put me on guard. There are none who claim honour more than the dishonorable, courage more than the cowardly and honesty more than the dishonest.

Take Dossie Easton's advice and chalk it up to "another fucking opportunity for growth."



Phoenxx -> RE: Honesty, Trust, integerity and morality. (3/1/2006 7:01:11 AM)

Whenever someone starts repeating catch phrases over and over, ask them to define what the words or phrase means.
And while yes, there can be some conditions place by either a Top or bottom, there should be a reasonable limit. One that requires you to lose important friendships is a big old warning.
Sometimes I think it would be great if people coming into this life style choice would take a small course on recognizing abusive relationships. Not that I think it would stop some people but it might give a few some clues.
Tony



Kiaban -> RE: Honesty, Trust, integerity and morality. (3/1/2006 7:06:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

Why should people in the scene, and in particularly, the online scene be any better than those you meet in a supermarket.

Far from reassuring me, repeated use of the words in your post's title, particularly used in self reference, would put me on guard. There are none who claim honour more than the dishonorable, courage more than the cowardly and honesty more than the dishonest.

Take Dossie Easton's advice and chalk it up to "another fucking opportunity for growth."


I couldn't put it better myself so will just have to say "ditto" here.



MHOO314 -> RE: Honesty, Trust, integerity and morality. (3/1/2006 7:09:06 AM)

IMHEO,Those qualities exist in human nature, it matters not if one is a flaming sadist or a priest/ess--they exist end of story---deal with it and move on---

but as Fangs said, this story smacks of more submission from you than a take charge Dominant--be careful, we can at times by being too accommodating set ourselves up for failure.



passionfirenmo -> RE: Honesty, Trust, integerity and morality. (3/1/2006 7:15:50 AM)

These words have a deep impact on All my relationships,,,family,friends, lovers and career,,,,
They may very well be listed in my profiles,,and I feel that by making the statements that I do about trust and honesty is a forwarning to potential partners,,If you show me dishonesty,, you will be checked off the list,,,

I for One do stand by my words,,




Bunkerchief -> RE: Honesty, Trust, integerity and morality. (3/1/2006 7:18:30 AM)


quote:


Nuts and bolts, nuts and bolts, you got SCREWED!!!!



Oh I got screwed but no, I wasn't the sub but I did respect her and I knew a lot about her and she held a very responsible professional and social position which I knew to be true so I really wasn't expecting what was coming. As I said, some conditions I could understand from a moral position she had taken from the beginning even though some of them I thought to be rather contradictory. I accept I was led me by the cock, even though I had plenty of real life options from women whose company I enjoyed but she seemed something special, I guess she was but special in the wrong way. Though I have never met anyone so dishonest as her on the r/l scene. In fact after her I got rather deep into the local scene and found a lot of integrity there even though the amount of times such words as honesty, integrity and trust are used still disturbs me.



yourMissTress -> RE: Honesty, Trust, integerity and morality. (3/1/2006 7:21:56 AM)

quote:

but as Fangs said, this story smacks of more submission from you than a take charge Dominant--be careful, we can at times by being too accommodating set ourselves up for failure.


I agree here with MHOO and Fangs, that rant read like a spurned sub not a Dom.

Now, as far as honesty, trust, integrity, and morality goes, I'm on line with JW here. There's nothing that says being kinky makes you a person of greater moral fiber, it just makes you kinky.

People touting themselves repeatedly or not, as anything usually aren't. See my quote below?




pollux -> RE: Honesty, Trust, integerity and morality. (3/1/2006 7:22:23 AM)

One of the things I learned from my exploration into psychology is this concept of projection.

People who are very vocal about demanding honesty, integrity, morality, etc. make me rather suspicious, to be honest. To me, those are qualities that frankly ought to be givens when pursuing a relationship. If we have to discuss them, or demand them...seems the relationship is suspect right off. I don't demand such things. I'm just observant. And if the honesty, integrity, or morality isn't there....see ya.

It's like when you see a profile of a woman and she says, "I am NOT a drama queen!" -- what do you think?

Now, this isn't to say that everything people say about themselves is false and the opposite of everything people say about themselves is true. It's just that I'd be on the lookout for very strong negative feelings about things, or repeated demands for certain qualities. When you see that crop up, 9 times out of 10 the person is dealing with their own stuff. And you can take that to the bank.

Edit: ha! While I was making this post MissTress came in and said the same thing...read hers instead. She's a lot more fun.

Anyway... apologies for the redundancy.



Bunkerchief -> RE: Honesty, Trust, integerity and morality. (3/1/2006 7:50:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress

I agree here with MHOO and Fangs, that rant read like a spurned sub not a Dom.



Actually being spurned was not my worry, when one comes across a liar and pays the price one learns quickly and dom or sub, both can lie. It was the fact she knew what I was giving up and watched me while I did that pissed me off, not that she moved on, it very quickly became apparent she was no big deal but something tells me she now regrets her lying. While I have plenty of respect for people and give them the benefit of the doubt to the nth degree which might be foolish, I'm not taken for a sucker without a price being paid.



KatyLied -> RE: Honesty, Trust, integerity and morality. (3/1/2006 8:14:38 AM)

quote:

Honesty, Trust, integrity and morality. I've heard these terms bandied about the scene for the couple of years I've been into BDSM but I wonder how much people really stop to consider what they really mean and entail.


Those words are only as special as the people professing to have those characterisitics. The lifestyle has nothing to do with it. Those are traits of some people, regardless of orientation. The lifestyle has no special hold on those things.

edited for grammar



Submotive -> RE: Honesty, Trust, integerity and morality. (3/1/2006 8:40:21 AM)

i agree. People in this lifestyle are no different than people anywhere. However, if you are going to pick at your wounds, you are not going to manage very well. We have all been deceived at times - the question remains "what do i learn from this?" and move on.



KnightofMists -> RE: Honesty, Trust, integerity and morality. (3/1/2006 9:01:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bunkerchief

Just wondering if people really believe in these words when they use them or do they think it is necessary to use them to have credibilty with a potential partner or play mate.

OK I'm asking people to be seriously candid and I can't imagine too many people saying of course I use these words as a tool to attract a partner for fun but who knows?



they are just words until they are actively demonstrated by behaviors that reflection the words!



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