Beating a Dead Horse AGAIN (Full Version)

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softsilkandlace -> Beating a Dead Horse AGAIN (2/19/2006 2:52:50 PM)

I know, I know this question has been asked numerous times in the past but I thought I would like to beat the horse again one more time. (Seems it has been a short while since any new post have been started)..so here we go again....

1)In your opinion what do you feel are the pro and cons for being in a polyrelationship?

2) In your opinion what qualities/characters do you think a person should have before entering into a polyamorous relationship.



pinioned14Me -> RE: Beating a Dead Horse AGAIN (2/19/2006 5:37:57 PM)

The pros to poly seem to be self evident. A sharing of duties and responsibilities, the added assets a third or fourth adds to the dynamic. A Master benefits on many levels here...if He chooses this form of the life.

The cons are just as evident...the resentment of sharing duties that please their One, shared attention and affections. Envy-jealousy ...Competitive Alpha behaviour causing stress throughout the House. A Master will find much of His attention devoted to maintaining a balance.

As much effort and devotion that a slave gives her/his One....a Master/Mistress will give in return with Their care, guidance and use. A poly setting can intensify this demand and need...so the mix, balance must be carefully constructed and maintained. Hard to find one to serve and stay together....to keep all the elements neccessary is beyond most.

The personalities involved as far as a slave is concerned would be one who is self effacing...the good of the group and Master are what make these smile. A Master/Mistress will be like an ideal parent...favoring none but making each feel special and fulfilled. Overly simplified....but I have never been a wordsmith.




Sensualips -> RE: Beating a Dead Horse AGAIN (2/19/2006 8:43:26 PM)

This is a hard question for me to answer because I think of polyamory as more a system of beliefs. It is a little like trying to explain the benefits of being Christian. Not that I am. But the brand of poly I practice is a blend of swinger/sexual and more traditional poly, evolving over the past 5-6 years and still being defined.

But looking at my personal experiences thus far -- sexual and nonsexual -- it addresses the unrealistic pressure to meet all of person's needs, or have your needs met by another single person. For me it relieves the staleness that can creep into any relationship, even a stong and healthy one. As odd as it may sounds that "newness" and excitement I feel with a new interest has an obvious and positive effect on my current relationship(s.) The freedom and openess reduces guilt and resentment that sometimes (for me!) accompanies long term monogamy. This is true whether I am actively in a relationship of any form with another partner. There is the pleasure that comes from seeing your partner fulfilled, from sharing an experience with him/her.

On the down side, any weaknesses of a current relationship are magnified. There can be jealousy or envy or pain or fear or a dozen other yucky things that are part of almost all relationships in life, poly or otherwise. It can be awkward to "explain" to outsiders and somehow in some ways "appearances" are still important to me. I still struggle with feeling embarassed or maybe even a twinge of humiliation as certain awkward situations arise -- especially if it somehow involves someone I am not completely out to. It can be hard to manage, time wise and energy wise. For me, it has eliminated one or two really great potential partners that just were not compatible in that area.

To be sucessful I feel like a person needs patience, good communication skills, overall stability, and the basic poly-friendly beliefs.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Beating a Dead Horse AGAIN (2/19/2006 11:36:25 PM)

Go read The Ethical Slut. ANything I could say here would be included there- and probably much more organized and thorough than I could present here.



Chaingang -> RE: Beating a Dead Horse AGAIN (2/20/2006 3:42:04 AM)

Excerpts from negative reviews at Amazon:

...

Aside from offering fairly glib and superficial advice (don't have loud sex within hearing distance of your primary partner), it doesn't really grapple with the problems--physical, emotional, financial--that come with open relationships. I'm not saying that pursuing open relationships isn't possible. I'm saying that this book is not an honest look at the problems and difficulties that might come up in such relationships. - Christopher Weaver "weaverc" (Wayne, NJ)

...

This manual is all you need for a lifetime of broken hearts and STD's. Go ahead, justify yourself to your heart's content, but no amount of creative rationalization is going to alter the emotional and physical risks you put others at with this regimen. Hey, as long as you feel good, do it. - A Reader

...

Dossie and Catherine don't really make a convincing case in favour of polyamory here, unless endless complications and "managing jealousy" really appeal to you. However, if you've already made up your mind to be poly, this book will give you plenty of reasons to feel contempt for anyone who might question your choices. - Peter Franklin (Canada)

...

This book came highly recommended. It does, in fact, have a lot of good ideas and good things to say about personal freedom. However the abundance of gratuitous male bashing throughout is a real turn off. Bad examples are always male. Good examples are always female. Male-negative comments are used liberaly whether or not they have anything to do with the particular subject at hand. Prejudice is not "ethical" even if it's anti-male prejudice. - A Reader

...

My primary impression of the book, and its authors, was that of a manifesto for justifying a very superficial and somewhat selfish mode of existence-- one in which sexual gratification outweighs other considerations. Yes, there is lip service paid to notions of "respect" but when push comes to shove, the book's central thesis is clear: If it gets in the way of your next orgasm, you probably don't want it in your life anymore. There was nothing about committed partners who occasionally want to share an experience; the assumption is that the reader is going to go off and screw new people when they want to. I thought it somewhat ominous, at the time, that the book was filled with anecdote after anecdote from people, mostly women, whose lives "only got started" after they jettisoned their spouse, their family, etc. and ran off into a world where anyone is fair game...Is The Ethical .... about freedom? Absolutely. But the price you pay to walk through that gate is this: Accept and admit that feeding your genitals matters to you more than any one person ever will. And be ready to live the rest of your life that way. - A Reader



ShiftedJewel -> RE: Beating a Dead Horse AGAIN (2/20/2006 4:40:36 AM)

quote:

1)In your opinion what do you feel are the pro and cons for being in a polyrelationship?


I never looked at it as something that had pros and cons, it was simply right for me and mine. Things I enjoy about it? Pretty much everything... Finding a person, be it nilla or lifestyle, that wishes to be a part of a poly family is difficult... but finding one that fits into your particular family is a bitch! But... when you do... it's awesome! I couldn't be happier about the dynamic we have... Which, btw, is a closed poly home.

quote:

2) In your opinion what qualities/characters do you think a person should have before entering into a polyamorous relationship.


I think everyone involved should know themselves completely, they should be secure in themselves, have high self-esteem and most important... they should be willing and able to talk openingly and honestly about any and all concerns or issues they may come across, no matter how trivial it may seem at the time.

I've said it hundreds of times and I'll continue to say it... jealousy is a useless emotion (unless you are TRYING to end your relationship on purpose) and is something that doesn't have to rear it's ugly head. If you are secure in who you are as well as your relationship then jealousy shouldn't be a part of it... period.

quote:

Aside from offering fairly glib and superficial advice (don't have loud sex within hearing distance of your primary partner),


Had to laugh at this one... really, it struck me as funny. I don't understand why that would be a problem... that is unless they primary has jeaslousy issues? Hell, I'm thankful that my house is so well insulated, if it weren't then not only the neighbors would hear them, but people on the next block might too!! LMAO It doesn't bother me at all.

quote:

Go read The Ethical Slut.


Being a slut and being poly are two totally different things.

And Chaingang.... thank you so very much for posting those reviews! I feel better knowing that I am not the only one that does NOT see that book as being the be all and end all!

I am not now, nor have I ever considered myself a slut... if that is your orientation then more power to you (generic you... fyi) If you want to read a book about poly then read "Polyamory The New Love without Limits (Secrets of sustainable intimate relations)" by Dr Deborah M. Anapol

IMNSHO, if you wish to learn about history, read about history, if you want to learn about poly, read about poly, but... if you want to learn more about being a slut..... well.....


Jewel



twicehappy -> RE: Beating a Dead Horse AGAIN (2/20/2006 7:43:19 AM)

First a brief introduction.I am tess,a slave in an ecstatically happy closed poly household.My Master is Scooter Trash,my Mistress is Shifted Jewel.Together we are Clan Phoneix Risen.


quote:

1)In your opinion what do you feel are the pro and cons for being in a polyrelationship?


Pros,hmmm,imagine being in a place where your heart is free.Where you are safe and secure in the knowledge you are loved.Loved without jealousy.Without pettiness.Loved for all your faults.Loved with all your little personal idiosyncrises.Loved for your weaknesses and strength.Loved this way by not only one,which can be good,but by more than one,which is fantastic.Now imagine loving others in your household the same way.Poly means loving many.It also means being loved by many.It means having more than one hand to hold,more than one shoulder to lean on.Being poly requires you to expand your heart,your mind,your soul,until you are aware on all levels of each others being.




Cons? Actually i cannot say there are cons.Rather let me answer the next question i see coming.
Is it easy?

If you know yourself,if your partners know themselves.If you realize love is an unending cup.The magical goblet of the gods that no matter how often is drunk from never runs dry.Then yes,it is the easiest thing in the world.

Can it be hard?

If you allow that horrible green eyed monstrousity Jealousy in,it becomes impossible.
Beyond that nothing about it is impossible or undoable.



twicehappy -> RE: Beating a Dead Horse AGAIN (2/20/2006 8:17:20 AM)

quote:

Aside from offering fairly glib and superficial advice (don't have loud sex within hearing distance of your primary partner




1ST ISSUE WITH THIS PIECE OF ADVICE,WHAT IS A PRIMARY PARTNER?

Maybe the quote should have said original partner instead.To me primary partner indicates all are not entitled to equal amounts of love.My Master and Mistress were married before the three of us met.I am collared by both of them equally.So you could say they are both my primary partners.I do not really see things that way,nor do they either.True,they own me,I am their slave.Therefore i am secondary to both of them in effective status as is proper in an M/s relationship.Yet more true,most importantly to our relationship we are married in a closed poly relationship to each other.If you are saying things like primary partner the green eyed monster has invaded your relationship,call an exterminator fast!

quote:

Had to laugh at this one... really, it struck me as funny. I don't understand why that would be a problem... that is unless they primary has jeaslousy issues? Hell, I'm thankful that my house is so well insulated, if it weren't then not only the neighbors would hear them, but people on the next block might too!! LMAO It doesn't bother me at all


ROFLMAO!!!!!!

Mistress you got me! True,between Master growling like a bear and and me screaming like a cat in heat they'd probably hear us a state over without the insulation.

Has this ever ellicited a problem or bad feelings?No! We tease each other about it.In truth Mistress has also caused a great deal of his growling and some of my yowling as well.We are all very comfortable with it and glad for one another.Okay,it actually did cause a bit of concern on one occasion,Mistress did pipe in an offer some lube,lol.




LadiesBladewing -> RE: Beating a Dead Horse AGAIN (2/20/2006 4:31:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: softsilkandlace

1)In your opinion what do you feel are the pro and cons for being in a poly relationship?


For me, I can't imagine being anything -but- poly. I love... a lot. I even love people that I don't particularly like. To be told that I could only love one other person, of the opposite gender, for the rest of my life, is anathema to everything in my nature. So I guess, the biggest pro for me is that it lets me be completely me, without compromise -- which is how I prefer to live every aspect of my life.

As far as "con"... I think the biggest con for me is that, no matter how careful I am to explain how we "do" poly, it's still really hard for people to understand, until they're in the thick of things. Even then, far too many people have these fantasies of what poly will be like, and they end up bitter and disappointed, instead of just letting the relationship be what it is. They're unable to -hear- what we tell them, because they can't conceive of the notion of what we are, so they come, all eager, then find themselves angry and hurt because we weren't what they fantasized we would be... when we've said, all along, that we're who we are, and explained exactly what we were looking for.

quote:

2) In your opinion what qualities/characters do you think a person should have before entering into a polyamorous relationship.


1. A real awareness of themselves... how willing are they to be completely honest with themselves about how they're interacting with the people they are looking to get involved with... where are their "broken places" and what are they doing to fix themselves (since going into any relationship, including a poly one, to "fix" one's issues is a really -bad- idea!). Are they in a stable place, with clear plans for their future, and does this relationship have the earmarks of nurturing those plans? There are a lot more questions in this section, but this is a good start.

2. Why are they looking at a poly situation? Is it because they feel love and genuine affection for everyone else they'll be involved with? Do they get along with all the parties well -before- they talk about a permanent household together? Have they talked about the tough stuff... sex, money, belongings and pets, household governance... and is everyone on the same page? Can they really, truly live with the answers they've gotten?

3. What is the "fantasy" that is drawing them into -this- particular relationship? Do they have any reason to believe that the fantasy has any bearing in reality? If so, what makes them think so? If not, what is making them impose the fantasy on a relationship that already seems incompatible with the "dream"?

4. What plans do they have in place if things don't work out? They may commit 6 months, a year, or even 2 years or more (especially in -tribe- based households where there are a -lot- of people to get to know and develop a relationship with) to building a poly relationship, and then discover that they just don't fit? Can they handle that kind of self-realization, and what will they do about it if they figure it out? What about if the rest of the members of the household figure out that this new person doesn't really fit? Has the possibility of that been considered and discussed, and can the seeking individual really, truly, honestly cope with being told that he or she isn't a good match (after the necessary tears and grieving from all the work and investment of self -- the grief is natural, but shouldn't have the signs of a possible dip into a huge depression -- if this is a concern, now -isn't- the time to get involved in a relationship... it's the time to get some help to deal with the inner damage that would elicit such a reaction). Is there a "breakaway" clause in the relationship that will let a member who isn't ready or doesn't want to be there any more (and who hasn't inflicted damage to others on the way out the door) to leave without a huge drama-fest? Does it seem like everyone involved is mature enough to hold on to the good parts of the relationship even if living as "one big happy family" doesn't pan out?

These are the questions -I- ask myself, and hope that others entering our household ask -themselves-. I don't expect it, but it would be nice.

Lady Zephyr




softsilkandlace -> RE: Beating a Dead Horse AGAIN (2/25/2006 5:32:43 PM)

Very well stated.



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