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RE: Canadians are cool - 2/13/2006 10:53:08 AM   
michaelGA


Posts: 905
Joined: 12/12/2005
Status: offline 		if everyone decided to fight and die for "their country" there woudn't be anyone left in "their country" to enjoy "freedoms"

why is it that people today think that war is the only solution. haven't enough people died for stupid things like patriotism, freedom, homeland security, religion and terra firma?

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Canadians are cool - 2/13/2006 11:04:27 AM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 458
Joined: 9/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA

if everyone decided to fight and die for "their country" there woudn't be anyone left in "their country" to enjoy "freedoms"

why is it that people today think that war is the only solution. haven't enough people died for stupid things like patriotism, freedom, homeland security, religion and terra firma?


Go back on your medicines Michael. I have no idea how to respond to someone who thinks that "Freedom" is stupid and not worth fighting for and defending.

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MoGa
Happiness Is Having An Obedient Puppy!

(in reply to michaelGA)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Canadians are cool - 2/13/2006 11:20:21 AM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 461
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa
If you are so ashamed of America and the way she is handled, then go live elsewhere, but take your shitty comments with you when you do. [/size]


In all fairness he did say he'd rather live elsewhere. Isn't part of the great freedom one has living in the U.S. of A. that they have the RIGHT to freedom of speech?

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Canadians are cool - 2/13/2006 11:22:15 AM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 461
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa
I have no idea how to respond to someone who thinks that "Freedom" is stupid and not worth fighting for and defending. [/size]


That I can definitely agree with.

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Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds ~~ Albert Einstein

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Canadians are cool - 2/13/2006 11:49:50 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 391
Joined: 1/3/2006
Status: offline 		Well apperently in some minds they have the freedom to agree. Dissent is the greatest of all the freedoms granted in any western-style democracy.
Tens of thousands of Americans and canadians excercise that right each year by crossing the border, and even more do so without taking such a drastic step.

quote:

What? MoGa isn't entitled to *her* "freedom of speech" too?

If you want him, you can have him. Besides, we have all the w(h)ine we need from California.

~stef


Hmmmm, now let me go back and reread what i wrote.....Just as i thought, I made no comment about in any way limiting anybody's freedom of speech. I derided her apparent unwillingness to extend that freedom to opinions she disagreed with, but I in no way even hinted that she should not have the right to express that opinion, however inane I may personally feel it is. And yes we would make room for him here, and we would even find a way to welcome you as well, we are a very accomodating people up here in the frozen wastes.

quote:

Pick up a gun, picket sign or a pen, Michael if you feel like you dont have enough freedom here. FIGHT for that freedom.

This I agree with very much (well except for the pick up a gun bit, I think that is a somewhat extreme form of political activism), but the point is well taken, if you are not happy with the freedoms you have, or how they are being respected, then fight back....think of Rosa Parks and all that followed from her simply refusing to move to the back of the bus.

quote:

if anyone doesnt like this country, that is the beauty of what our soldiers fought so hard to obtain, FREEDOM, the freedom to leave. He can say anything he wants to, but I have the FREEDOM to tell him to love it or leave it.

Now I may be misreading this here, but to me this says that there is no room for dissent or any view but that the USA is perfect the way it is. I understand that you are proud of all your family members who fought for your freedom, however they also fought for his freedom to complain, though exactly how any US citizen's freedom was endangered by North Vietnam or Iraq's invasion of Kuwait I fail to see, but that is neither here nor there. My point was, and is, that the sort of "love it or leave it" chauvenism expressed by MoG is both distasteful and usually, in my mind at any rate, associated with somebody who either has a position that is untennable, or who hasn't the intelligence to defend their position.



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Whenever I think about you
And all the things we could do
A touch of lace, a taste of leather
And I do so love you
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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Canadians are cool - 2/13/2006 11:56:02 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 1931
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa
FEAR is not the reason I posted that. I remember a bumper sticker when I was a teenager, it read "America. Love It Or Leave It" I am just simply stating that if anyone doesnt like this country, that is the beauty of what our soldiers fought so hard to obtain, FREEDOM, the freedom to leave. He can say anything he wants to, but I have the FREEDOM to tell him to love it or leave it. It never ceases to amaze me, that the ones who bitch the loudest about this country are the same ones who cringe under the umbrella of freedom that our countrymen fought for, when they feel like their liberties are at stake. I have lost too many of my family members in World War II, Viet Nam and Desert Storm to sit quietly when someone is complaining that we dont have enough freedom here in America. Pick up a gun, picket sign or a pen, Michael if you feel like you dont have enough freedom here. FIGHT for that freedom.

As for having tolerance, I dont have to have it. That is also one of the FREEDOMS that I have a right to, thanks to the blood of my grandfather, 3 great uncles, 2 cousins and brother-in-law who fought and died for it. [/size]


We allow women into the US military. I assume then you served?

I remember that bumper sticker too. It was one of the saddest pieces of narrow minded trash I've ever seen.

In case you are wondering, I was medically discharged as a second lieutenant from the USMC back in the 1960s, the same era when that bumper sticker was popular. And, let us not forget who the sticker was supporting, Richard Nixon.

It was no mistake that the FIRST amendment added to the US Constitution guaranteed the right to criticise the government. Dispite the United States being on very shaky ground when it was proposed and passed, the citizens and leaders of this country knew that the primary defense for liberty was the right of the freedom to comment upon and criticize the actions of its elected officials.

You tell Michael to "fight for that freedom." Exercising his right to speak is fighting for that freedom particularly when treason is all about us being put forward by people who disobey the commands of the Constitution and substitute their own fears and petty prejudices for the wisdom in which this country was founded.


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(in reply to MistressOfGa)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Canadians are cool - 2/13/2006 12:07:39 PM   
stef


Posts: 1603
Joined: 1/26/2004
From: Boston, MA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Hmmmm, now let me go back and reread what i wrote.....Just as i thought, I made no comment about in any way limiting anybody's freedom of speech. I derided her apparent unwillingness to extend that freedom to opinions she disagreed with, but I in no way even hinted that she should not have the right to express that opinion, however inane I may personally feel it is.

He posted his opinion, she posted hers. 'Freedom of speech' isn't the issue since that 1st Amendment right applies solely to government interference with a citizen's ability to speak. That's not what's happening here. Telling someone to get bent is just as protected as the first person's whining.

quote:

This I agree with very much (well except for the pick up a gun bit, I think that is a somewhat extreme form of political activism), but the point is well taken, if you are not happy with the freedoms you have, or how they are being respected, then fight back....think of Rosa Parks and all that followed from her simply refusing to move to the back of the bus.

Since Michael can't even be bothered to vote, it's unlikely that he'll do any such thing unless karaoke is involved.

~stef

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Canadians are cool - 2/13/2006 12:29:44 PM   
Saraheli


Posts: 12
Joined: 1/2/2006
Status: offline 		I happen to agree with John Warren. Did You serve?

If you didn't, then you have no right to place yoursef on a pedestal. Sorry, what your family did is what they did, not what You did.
It takes people being offended by things to change things. He probably is not the only person in the United States who feels that way, and by stating his opinion here and there, he might get something going, maybe not him personally, but somebody reading his opinions, however unpopular Some might find them.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Canadians are cool - 2/13/2006 2:13:35 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 458
Joined: 9/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren


quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa
FEAR is not the reason I posted that. I remember a bumper sticker when I was a teenager, it read "America. Love It Or Leave It" I am just simply stating that if anyone doesnt like this country, that is the beauty of what our soldiers fought so hard to obtain, FREEDOM, the freedom to leave. He can say anything he wants to, but I have the FREEDOM to tell him to love it or leave it. It never ceases to amaze me, that the ones who bitch the loudest about this country are the same ones who cringe under the umbrella of freedom that our countrymen fought for, when they feel like their liberties are at stake. I have lost too many of my family members in World War II, Viet Nam and Desert Storm to sit quietly when someone is complaining that we dont have enough freedom here in America. Pick up a gun, picket sign or a pen, Michael if you feel like you dont have enough freedom here. FIGHT for that freedom.

As for having tolerance, I dont have to have it. That is also one of the FREEDOMS that I have a right to, thanks to the blood of my grandfather, 3 great uncles, 2 cousins and brother-in-law who fought and died for it. [/size]


We allow women into the US military. I assume then you served?

I remember that bumper sticker too. It was one of the saddest pieces of narrow minded trash I've ever seen.

In case you are wondering, I was medically discharged as a second lieutenant from the USMC back in the 1960s, the same era when that bumper sticker was popular. And, let us not forget who the sticker was supporting, Richard Nixon.

It was no mistake that the FIRST amendment added to the US Constitution guaranteed the right to criticise the government. Dispite the United States being on very shaky ground when it was proposed and passed, the citizens and leaders of this country knew that the primary defense for liberty was the right of the freedom to comment upon and criticize the actions of its elected officials.

You tell Michael to "fight for that freedom." Exercising his right to speak is fighting for that freedom particularly when treason is all about us being put forward by people who disobey the commands of the Constitution and substitute their own fears and petty prejudices for the wisdom in which this country was founded.



Yes as a matter of fact I did enlist. I was almost all the way through boot camp and I injured my back. I was medically discharged. I was extremely upset about not being able to fully serve.
quote:

You tell Michael to "fight for that freedom." Exercising his right to speak is fighting for that freedom

Absolutely. Just as mine is to be able to say that I dont agree with him. I am NOT saying that my ideas, thoughts or beliefs are the only way. Far from it, but I cant relate to someone who posts this on a public board:
quote:


why is it that people today think that war is the only solution. haven't enough people died for stupid things like patriotism, freedom, homeland security, religion and terra firma?

But then again, he has that right to insult every American soldier who fought and died for the right to have "patriotism, freedom, homeland security, religion and terra firma" doesnt he? It is part of his freedom of speech.

_____________________________

MoGa
Happiness Is Having An Obedient Puppy!

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Canadians are cool - 2/13/2006 2:28:24 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 458
Joined: 9/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Saraheli

I happen to agree with John Warren. Did You serve?

If you didn't, then you have no right to place yoursef on a pedestal. Sorry, what your family did is what they did, not what You did.
It takes people being offended by things to change things. He probably is not the only person in the United States who feels that way, and by stating his opinion here and there, he might get something going, maybe not him personally, but somebody reading his opinions, however unpopular Some might find them.



See my response to John Warrens question as to my serving my country.

quote:

If you didn't, then you have no right to place yoursef on a pedestal.

As far as my having the right to put myself on a pedestal. Yes, I have that right. I am not asking anyone to put me there. I have the right. Isn't that what we are discussing? Do not tell me I dont have the right to put myself on a pedestal, when I am the one supposedly putting myself there, not anyone else. And for what it is worth, I am not on any kind of pedestal.
quote:

Sorry, what your family did is what they did, not what You did.

I never said that *I* was the one who fought. I am proud of my family. I brought them into this because I come from a long history of proud people who have always stood up and fought for what they believe in.

I dont believe for one second that *I* am right and there is no room in my life for other opinions. I love a good debate and I love to have intelligent conversations.

To the OP, I am very sorry for hi-jacking this thread. I will step down now.



_____________________________

MoGa
Happiness Is Having An Obedient Puppy!

(in reply to Saraheli)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Canadians are cool - 2/13/2006 2:46:32 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 1931
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa
Absolutely. Just as mine is to be able to say that I dont agree with him. I am NOT saying that my ideas, thoughts or beliefs are the only way. Far from it, but I cant relate to someone who posts this on a public board:
quote:


why is it that people today think that war is the only solution. haven't enough people died for stupid things like patriotism, freedom, homeland security, religion and terra firma?

But then again, he has that right to insult every American soldier who fought and died for the right to have "patriotism, freedom, homeland security, religion and terra firma" doesnt he? It is part of his freedom of speech.


Yet, you don't just disagee with him. You tell him to leave this country. That does violence to the very concepts that founded it.

Remember the oath you took. It still resonates with me particulary the part about "protect the Constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic." Not all enemies of the Constitution are ourside the borders; not all are outside the Beltway; not all are outside the walls of the White House.

Honor that oath.

I don't like some of Michael's posts. In fact, I have him on ignore, but he has a right to speak. I just don't have to listen.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Canadians are cool - 2/13/2006 2:56:32 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 458
Joined: 9/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Yet, you don't just disagee with him. You tell him to leave this country. That does violence to the very concepts that founded it.


The reason I said that he could leave was he kept saying he was going to leave this country because he cant stand it. I only told him to do exactly what he was saying he was going to do anyway.
quote:


Remember the oath you took. It still resonates with me particulary the part about "protect the Constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic." Not all enemies of the Constitution are ourside the borders; not all are outside the Beltway; not all are outside the walls of the White House.

Oh goodness, you dont want to get me started on our Commander And Chief. I may be in Georgia, but I most certainly did not vote for him.

quote:

I don't like some of Michael's posts. In fact, I have him on ignore, but he has a right to speak. I just don't have to listen.

Thank you, after today, I may be doing the same thing.


_____________________________

MoGa
Happiness Is Having An Obedient Puppy!

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Canadians are cool - 2/13/2006 3:58:45 PM   
SirKenin


Posts: 1078
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline 		Yikes. This took a nasty turn I did not expect.

All I know is this. I have not served in the military. I have taken a lot from this country and I am damn proud of the men and women that served to make it the most desirable place on earth to live.

Yeah, I moan and groan about some of our politicians and some of our nonsensical policies. I criticize our imigration act and how an imigrant can be paid to run a business and drive a mercedes before a citizen can get off welfare. There are some really dumb things that go on, but I love this country. Even with the horrid snow I would not leave it for anything in the world.

/crawls off his soapbox and back into his igloo.

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Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Canadians are cool - 2/13/2006 5:03:38 PM   
SirKenin


Posts: 1078
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
I don't like some of Michael's posts. In fact, I have him on ignore, but he has a right to speak. I just don't have to listen.


I did not until today, but the more I read, the more I can understand why you did and I followed suit.

< Message edited by SirKenin -- 2/13/2006 5:05:38 PM >

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Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Canadians are cool - 2/13/2006 5:11:34 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 1512
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Let's go. For once in my life I want to wear a toque. One of the coolest men I never met is from Canada. I smile when I think about him.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Canadians are cool - 2/13/2006 5:13:29 PM   
SirKenin


Posts: 1078
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline 		That is because Canadians are the bomb..


"I...AM...CANADIAN..."

Most patriotic commercial EVAH.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

If someone has to tell you how smart (or great) they are, chances are they are not.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Canadians are cool - 2/13/2006 7:47:05 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 476
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
HAPPY? Have you noticed the weather? M

I prefer to reside in an area where water is a liquid and not a building material.


LOL Vancouver is a very temperate city. We rarely get snow. Even our ski mountains have to worry over the forecast because they can't count on it being cold enough.

Sure some parts of Canada resemble North Dakota...but personally I haven't owned a parka or snowboots in at least 20 years.

Friday my students were out on the playground in sweatshirts, and the temperature here has hardly hit O celsius (freezing) all winter.

Cin

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quote:

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Canadians are cool - 2/13/2006 8:40:39 PM   
michaelGA


Posts: 905
Joined: 12/12/2005
Status: offline 		i retract the statement of freedom being dumb, i shall replace it with "dying" for freedom is dumb...is that more exceptasble to everyone?

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Canadians are cool - 2/13/2006 10:12:18 PM   
michaelGA


Posts: 905
Joined: 12/12/2005
Status: offline 		i would like to post a public apology to everyone on these boards for my...outspokeness...and shall try harder to exercise my right to remain silent and allow others to exercise their rights to speak their minds.

i have no right to say anything in this thread, nuch less this country and shall no longer bother others with my words.

i only hope that others will please except my apology as i move off into the darkness and watch quietly

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Canadians are cool - 2/13/2006 10:46:41 PM   
SirKenin


Posts: 1078
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
HAPPY? Have you noticed the weather? M

I prefer to reside in an area where water is a liquid and not a building material.


LOL Vancouver is a very temperate city. We rarely get snow. Even our ski mountains have to worry over the forecast because they can't count on it being cold enough.

Sure some parts of Canada resemble North Dakota...but personally I haven't owned a parka or snowboots in at least 20 years.

Friday my students were out on the playground in sweatshirts, and the temperature here has hardly hit O celsius (freezing) all winter.

Cin


We were fine up until a week ago. Then we got hammered. I woke up one morning to find this:

http://www.northernprotocol.com/images/house1.jpg

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

If someone has to tell you how smart (or great) they are, chances are they are not.

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)
Profile   Post #: 40
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