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SSC or RACK? - 3/11/2004 3:30:05 PM

seattleminx

Posts: 46
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline

Safe Sane and Consensual? Or Risk Aware Consensual Kink?

Personally, I have a problem with the SSC label, mostly because my own desires and fetishes tend to run to the extreme. My Mistress and I have done slight breath play, I have had a 8 inch knife to my throat and we both routinely bite each other to varying degrees of pain (we have yet to draw blood).

Is this safe?

Truth be told, part of what makes this so blissful to me is the fact that it's NOT safe. Boundaries are okay, but there are times when I wish to exceed them...push past them. Being safe doesn't allow this.

And Sane? Who defines what sane is? As any good psychologist will tell you, sanity is subjective.

I do believe in consensuality however. That is my big stickingn point. I won't play with anyone who doesn't want to (which is important if your doing public play)

The thing is that I am quite aware of the risks involved in breathplay. I know what bites can and cannot do. And I take responsibility for that. Which is why I like RACK... it forces each person involved in a scene to take responsibility for what they are doing.

Thoughts?

Post #: 1

RE: SSC or RACK? - 3/11/2004 4:37:18 PM

EStrict

Posts: 730
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline

Breathing isn't safe if you are in a smoke filled room. Eating isn't safe if you are eating lye. Seems to me these acronyms put you back in the semantics game.

I see them both as the same. *Safe* means watching for the danger, just as *Risk aware* does. *Sane* means not slitting their throat when you hold that knife there. It is being *sane* within the realm of your kink. There are people who would tell you flying is insane. Or driving. Just because someone doesn't see holding a knife to flesh within play as sane does not make it *insane* in my book. That again fits in with *aware*. Be *aware* of how you hold the knife, how much pressure you apply, etc.

Both share consensual. which is a definite must in my book, however, consensual doesn't need to mean for a specific act. I consent to be Master's slave. Being an American gives me the right to chose whether I want it or not. However, I do not always *consent* to things he does... I just accept them as his right even if I have no desire, wish or want for them to occur. Spankings are a good example. I hate pain,, and I do not get excited being spanked. But I do accept that should Master feel I need one to remind me of my place or to reprimand me for a wrong doing, he is within his right, and my previous consenting to be owned by him is all the consent he needs.

And both are about *K*ink. So, SSC, RACK, or any other way you want to explain how you live your way within the lifestyle is your choice,, but to me it's basically six of one, half a dozen of the other ... and all the same no matter how you spell it.

_____________________________

Sandy

Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

(in reply to seattleminx)

Post #: 2

RE: SSC or RACK? - 3/12/2004 8:06:37 AM

Sylverdawn

Posts: 234
Joined: 1/1/2004
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I agree to a point with you both.. I dont beleve what we do is Safe.. but we need to be as safe as possible.. Nor would I include sane amoung some of the choices that I have made with regard to my lifestyle given the current definition of sanity. I do like RACK..

I prefer it because it doesnt give anyone a false sense of security.. its in your face.. be AWARE>>>DANGER DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!!!

_____________________________

"Yes, we women are inventive," she said. "Be careful. When you find your ideal, she might easily treat you more cruelly than you like."

(in reply to EStrict)

Post #: 3

RE: SSC or RACK? - 3/12/2004 10:55:51 AM

inyouagain

Posts: 427
Joined: 1/6/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: seattleminx
Safe Sane and Consensual? Or Risk Aware Consensual Kink?

Literally it could be argued that RACK is in itself a subset of SSC, while in the same token SSC is not in itself a subset of RACK.

Being Risk Aware can be considered an element of safety conciousness in that the parties involved are aware of both the safety and the dangers of C or CK.

Speaking of C and CK, why the distinction of K in RACK when it is assumed in SSC, why not SSC or RAC... after all, both are K (BDSM), are they not?

How about a new lifestyle acronym of "Seriously Unorthodox Consensual Kink" (SUCK)?

Then if someone says, "You SUCK"... you can wholeheartedly agree with them!

Inyouagain

(in reply to seattleminx)

Post #: 4

RE: SSC or RACK? - 3/12/2004 11:26:46 AM

seattleminx

Posts: 46
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: inyouagain

How about a new lifestyle acronym of "Seriously Unorthodox Consensual Kink" (SUCK)?

Then if someone says, "You SUCK"... you can wholeheartedly agree with them!

Inyouagain

lol... this made my day inyouagain

(in reply to inyouagain)

Post #: 5

RE: SSC or RACK? - 3/12/2004 11:35:26 AM

seattleminx

Posts: 46
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: inyouagain

Literally it could be argued that RACK is in itself a subset of SSC, while in the same token SSC is not in itself a subset of RACK.

Being Risk Aware can be considered an element of safety conciousness in that the parties involved are aware of both the safety and the dangers of C or CK.

I agree with you inyouagain as well as everyone else who has posted a response here. The reason I ask this question is the group think that has started to occur surrounding SSC. In some of the groups that I have participated in (I lived in DC for a bit and participated in Black Rose), people allowed SSC to trump "Your kink is not my kink". I know of one submissive who loved to take an incredible caning to her breasts, and found herself ostracized by some other members as being 'unsafe'.

And let's bring up the use of drugs or alcohol. In the Gay leather community, both are not frowned upon (although they are not encouraged either). And at play parties outside of the US, alcohol is served the way that some folks bring cheese plates to play parties here. Is the fact that alcohol is served at these parties unsafe?

Just some thoughts this morning

(in reply to inyouagain)

Post #: 6

RE: SSC or RACK? - 3/12/2004 7:41:28 PM

MizSuz

Posts: 1416
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

It doesnt matter what acronym you use, eventually people will take what started out as a guideline, a catch-phrase to help you remember that you are personally responsible, and turn it into a mindless mantra often used to laud over someone or some group.

quote:

ORIGINAL: seattleminx

I know of one submissive who loved to take an incredible caning to her breasts, and found herself ostracized by some other members as being 'unsafe'.

And let's bring up the use of drugs or alcohol. In the Gay leather community, both are not frowned upon (although they are not encouraged either). And at play parties outside of the US, alcohol is served the way that some folks bring cheese plates to play parties here. Is the fact that alcohol is served at these parties unsafe?

Just some thoughts this morning

haha Ya know, you reminded me of something that happened in my studio. There was a guy who used to come with his submissive. His technique was terrible (I always pitied that girl's kidneys) and he spent more time playing to the crowd than interacting with her. She seemed most like a prop to me. Other guests would come up to me and want to know why I wouldn't stop the scene because his technique sucked. I did keep an eye out for any potential seriously hazardous play, but he didn't push hard enough to be a real hazard. His technique simply sucked.

This was a highly experienced sub who was previously owned by a formidable (and highly competent) sadist. He (the dom folks wanted me to stop) had been in the scene for at least a year or two before I met him and had been with this sub for some time. These were adults, making adult choices.

He came to my studio one night and realized that people had brought liquor (I don't serve but have no problem with byob...adults make adult choices...people who don't conduct themselves like adults don't get invited back...I've never had problems with this approach). He told me that he couldn't be at a party where there was alcohol because it was 'unsafe' and chose not to return to my parties. Unbeknownst to him he saved me from further arguing with my other guests to allow him to continue to play.

I don't post dungeon monitors either, and tend to stay away from parties where they are the norm. It's nice to have folks around who are readily available to help if the need arises, but I dont care for parties where someone else has been given default power over my responsibilities.

To own his each, I suppose.

_____________________________

Suz

In honor of the impending ski season: If you're not livin' on the edge you're takin' up too much space!

(in reply to seattleminx)

Post #: 7

RE: SSC or RACK? - 3/13/2004 10:38:35 AM

seattleminx

Posts: 46
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

These were adults, making adult choices.

He came to my studio one night and realized that people had brought liquor (I don't serve but have no problem with byob...adults make adult choices...people who don't conduct themselves like adults don't get invited back...I've never had problems with this approach). He told me that he couldn't be at a party where there was alcohol because it was 'unsafe' and chose not to return to my parties. Unbeknownst to him he saved me from further arguing with my other guests to allow him to continue to play.

I don't post dungeon monitors either, and tend to stay away from parties where they are the norm. It's nice to have folks around who are readily available to help if the need arises, but I dont care for parties where someone else has been given default power over my responsibilities.

To own his each, I suppose.

MizSuz,

Ma'am, I think you've hit the nail on the head, in that we are (hopefully) all adults making adult choices. If something bad occurs, it's up to me and whomever I'm with to bear the responisbility of that.

And I also agree with you that it's nice to have people around in case the need arises, but not lording over scenes, determining beforehand what is safe and what is not. That , to me, is what the idea of what a community should aspire to.

(in reply to MizSuz)

Post #: 8

RE: SSC or RACK? - 3/14/2004 7:24:57 AM

ShadowHwk

Posts: 156
Joined: 1/5/2004
From: Huntsville, Alabama
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: seattleminx

Safe Sane and Consensual? Or Risk Aware Consensual Kink?

Personally, I have a problem with the SSC label, mostly because my own desires and fetishes tend to run to the extreme. My Mistress and I have done slight breath play, I have had a 8 inch knife to my throat and we both routinely bite each other to varying degrees of pain (we have yet to draw blood).

Is this safe?

Truth be told, part of what makes this so blissful to me is the fact that it's NOT safe. Boundaries are okay, but there are times when I wish to exceed them...push past them. Being safe doesn't allow this.

And Sane? Who defines what sane is? As any good psychologist will tell you, sanity is subjective.

I do believe in consensuality however. That is my big stickingn point. I won't play with anyone who doesn't want to (which is important if your doing public play)

The thing is that I am quite aware of the risks involved in breathplay. I know what bites can and cannot do. And I take responsibility for that. Which is why I like RACK... it forces each person involved in a scene to take responsibility for what they are doing.

Thoughts?

Sane and Safe? *laugh* Not hardly. To the rest of the world most of what we do is not considered safe, let alone sane. But I agree, consensualality (is that really a word?) is the key. All the "rules" we talk about, and the warnings given to the newbie, are nothing more than guidelines that under the right (wrong?) circumstances most of us will toss aside. BUT they do serve the purpose of making us at least think about things a bit more – which in general is not a bad thing.

So whether your mantra is SSC or RACK or anything else – if it provides value, if, in the long run, it gives you pause to consider your actions from a different perspective, then in my opinion it has served it’s purpose.

Terry

(in reply to seattleminx)

Post #: 9

RE: SSC or RACK? - 3/19/2004 11:26:45 AM

MistressKiss

Posts: 296
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sylverdawn

I agree to a point with you both.. I dont beleve what we do is Safe.. but we need to be as safe as possible.. Nor would I include sane amoung some of the choices that I have made with regard to my lifestyle given the current definition of sanity. I do like RACK..

I honestly had never heard the term RACK before...I like it. However, I do believe that what we do, can be done safely. I think a cane can be used safely, as can any of our kinkly little devices. A person who knows how to skydive from an airplane isn't doing something "unsafe" because of his or her familiarity with the act.

I don't have issues with SSC.

Thumbnail Image

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"I assure you, Your Honor, I don't have to practice...I'm very good at them..."
(The Marquis de Sade at one of his trials for the sexual perversities he practiced)

(in reply to Sylverdawn)

Post #: 10

RE: SSC or RACK? - 3/21/2004 5:14:15 AM

FandangoSpirit

Posts: 1
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline

Perhaps some might find views of SSC/RACK helpful:

http://www.io.com/~ambrosio/gen/rack.html

http://www.sc-lock.com/draco/draco_july.htm

http://alt.com/magazine/articles/article/16482.html?show_erotic=&action=

http://www.leathernroses.com/generalbdsm/knyghtflyherssc.htm

I strongly believe in safety (physical, sexual, emotional, mental, and spiritual) for A/all in D/s and BDSM play. I am not sure I embrace the "controversy" between SSC vs. RACK, though I probably agree with much of the view of the author of the last URL.

Philosophically, I probably agree more with RACK than SSC, though again...to Me, they are hardly exclusive.

Fandango

(in reply to MistressKiss)

Post #: 11

RE: SSC or RACK? - 3/31/2004 9:36:58 PM

ShadeDiva

Posts: 999
Joined: 3/31/2004
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

haha Ya know, you reminded me of something that happened in my studio. There was a guy who used to come with his submissive. His technique was terrible (I always pitied that girl's kidneys) and he spent more time playing to the crowd than interacting with her. She seemed most like a prop to me. Other guests would come up to me and want to know why I wouldn't stop the scene because his technique sucked. I did keep an eye out for any potential seriously hazardous play, but he didn't push hard enough to be a real hazard. His technique simply sucked.

Lol!

That reminds me of a scene at a local playspace that I once watched that went something like that - older gentleman, and a very young submissive. He was spending SO much time watching me and my partner watch their scene and playing up to us, smiling and strutting, and copping that domly 'tude that some dominants acquire when out playing in public - and he spent NO attention at *all* to the lovely young lady that was strapped to the cross.

His technique left quite a bit to be desired in my opinion, as he was flogging her vulva by swinging his long flogger between his legs which were wide apart. He wasn't even *looking* at her but rather smiling and waving at us, and he most *certainly* wasn't paying a speck of attention to that fact that the playspace was a remodeled warehouse, and the floor was NOT sanitary at all - in fact, because the outside door had been opened a few times and it had been a windy night, quite a bit of debris had accumulated right - yes you guessed it - right where the falls were hitting the ground each pass his made between his legs and slapping right into her quite moist labias.

And yes we knew she was soaking wet because, yes you guessed it, he made *quite* a show of slopping around down there (and yeah sadly, that was exactly how it appeared - *slopping* - ugh) and then proudly showing us what a "good job" he was doing with her by thrusting his hand at us so we could see the dripping results of his efforts. All I could think of was how all that dirt and leaves were sticking to the wet flogger (and yeah I think that was the *worst part* you could easily SEE how much crap was on those falls right before he landed them straight home and effectively transporting that debris right to her soaking wet genitals). Ugh².

Okay I take it back - the absolute worst part was how obviously *proud* he was of himself. All I could do was shake my head in my mind, and wonder if that was gonna smart when she wiped and what possible things could be transmitted in that fashion.

If he had only paid a smidgen of attention to the person he was playing with that would have been easily avoided.

I definitely felt awful sorry for that poor girl. <shudder>

~ShadeDiva

_____________________________

My projects of love:
theFetishForums
HumanFauna
Kinked
DommeWorld

(in reply to MizSuz)

Post #: 12

RE: SSC or RACK? - 8/17/2004 6:35:20 AM

wyldhearted

Posts: 44
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline

I chuckled at the newly suggested title of SUCK. How well that applies. I love a quick mind.

Personally, I prefer RACK. Risk aware consensual kink just seems to me to cover things more than the initial SSC. Both have their good points and intentions.

Respectfully,

morgan

_____________________________

"Words are just words, a Man's actions will tell of his honor"

(in reply to seattleminx)

Post #: 13

RE: SSC or RACK? - 8/17/2004 7:35:11 AM

MrThorns

Posts: 801
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline

M Kiss...

I believe that many, if not most of us, who play along the RACK philosophy, do try our best to reduce the risks. Nothing is 100% safe. No risk can be completely removed from a scene, but we can identify the potential hazards, take steps to reduce the risks, and then decide if the risk is still something that we are willing to take. I think the "Safe" of SSC is somewhat misleading. You could hurt someone with a rabbit fur flogger...(I guess..lol...never used one..)...not sure how exactly...maybe gagging a slave with it could cause problems...at the very least a lot of gag reflex....I digress...

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

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(in reply to wyldhearted)

Post #: 14

RE: SSC or RACK? - 8/17/2004 9:07:36 AM

theroebabe

Posts: 3150
Joined: 7/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns

M Kiss...

I believe that many, if not most of us, who play along the RACK philosophy, do try our best to reduce the risks. Nothing is 100% safe. No risk can be completely removed from a scene, but we can identify the potential hazards, take steps to reduce the risks, and then decide if the risk is still something that we are willing to take. I think the "Safe" of SSC is somewhat misleading. You could hurt someone with a rabbit fur flogger...(I guess..lol...never used one..)...not sure how exactly...maybe gagging a slave with it could cause problems...at the very least a lot of gag reflex....I digress...

~Thorns

For me a rabbit fur anything is deadly i am highly allerigic so thats a hard limit, oops wrong thread lol.

Roe

_____________________________

Roe

People always ask me why I do these things . . .
It's because I can!

(in reply to MrThorns)

Post #: 15

RE: SSC or RACK? - 8/17/2004 9:18:09 PM

SherriA

Posts: 553
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns
You could hurt someone with a rabbit fur flogger...(I guess..lol...never used one..)...not sure how exactly...

Easy to do with someone like me...I"m allergic to fur. Fur = BAD for me.

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to MrThorns)

Post #: 16

RE: SSC or RACK? - 8/18/2004 12:25:47 AM

ShadeDiva

Posts: 999
Joined: 3/31/2004
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns
You could hurt someone with a rabbit fur flogger

Damien makes a nasty mean evil lovely sweet rabbit flogger that has leaded falls, that will kick your ASS (or whatever gets flogged, LOL)

I LOVE the thing, from both sides.

I wannnnnnnnt one <whine>!

lol

~ShadeDiva, who WILL get herself one somedayyyyyyyyy <wanders off and dreams of the pretty evil thing>

_____________________________

My projects of love:
theFetishForums
HumanFauna
Kinked
DommeWorld

(in reply to MrThorns)

Post #: 17

RE: SSC or RACK? - 9/4/2004 8:55:14 AM

pixieunleashed

Posts: 105
Joined: 7/11/2004
Status: offline

I agree that SSC and RACK each are created for basically the same reasons. Someone decided we needed a slogan based on this sort of thing so that freaked out new people will be able to hear a slogan and relax. They are both simply catch phrases and ways to hunt out and protect against "trolls".

I do thing that RACK is a bit more accurate however.

pixie

_____________________________

**please note that I realize that I am just as full of crap as everybody else, feel free to remind me anytime**

If you understand it.......you've missed the point.

[image]http://img33.exs.cx/img33/2424/pixieunleashed-2.jpg[/image]

(in reply to seattleminx)

Post #: 18

RE: SSC or RACK? - 9/4/2004 9:37:54 AM

smilezz

Posts: 489
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline

Safe/Sane/Consensual...
All three are good...Two out of three isn't bad...one will do in a pinch. >snickerz<

i play how i play... only i can define that.

~smilezz~

_____________________________

"Please excuse my Sense of Justice...it's the only thing that saves You from the Slaughter"

"What you cannot enforce, do not command - Sophocles"

(in reply to seattleminx)

Post #: 19

RE: SSC or RACK? - 9/4/2004 1:12:18 PM

NoCalOwner

Posts: 241
Status: offline

I'm not sure that there's a lot of difference between the two. Vanilla sex with a condom is far from risk-free, and if the participants are too ignorant to know that, then they are not capable of giving valid consent. If the question of sanity comes up at all, there are again doubts about the validity of consent. I tend to think that SSC is a standard from before people realized how unsafe almost anything involving body fluids could be, and that RACK is to some extent a revision made to acknowledge that.

(in reply to seattleminx)

Post #: 20

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