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doormats - 8/11/2004 4:11:42 PM

newflowers

Posts: 283
Joined: 5/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Warm Greetings,

I have heard the term doormat used endlessly and I have even used it.

I have always wondered, what exactly is a doormat?

Where is the line drawn between obedient slave/submissive and a doormat?

If a man is truly seeking a relationship where they have control and are obeyed why would it be found offensive if a woman is totally subservient?

If there is a line drawn between a totally subservient woman and a doormat, wouldnt it be the dominants responsibility to bring out her good qualities?

deanna

Deanna,

I switched this to a different thread - hope you don't mind.

I too have read of doormats - mostly disparaging comments about how horrible, never me, would never have one, etc.

I worked once with a dominant when deciding to once again enter this lifestyle and wanted to do so with greater knowledge and understanding. In my lessons with him, I learned that a doormat is not the spineless creature one usually reads about in discussion. Rather, it is a submissive/slave, male or female, who in thought, word, and deed, expresses complete and total devotion and obedience to the dominant partner. This is not a person over whom any and everyone can walk, but one who, by choice, allows their will to be completely surrendered the control of their partner. This sometimes means that the doormat will do or not do that which they would like in honor of the greater vow of submitting to and serving another. Sometimes it may be a matter of doing things one might otherwise find distasteful with the point being focusing on, pleasing, and serving the dominant partner. Though negative connotations of the term often leads to negative responses and reactions, it is not about weakness, but instead strength in committing to a dynamic in which one recognizes and honors a partner's authority with total focus regardless of the place, time, and circumstance.

Others may wish to contribute for a more enlightening discussion.

newflowers

< Message edited by newflowers -- 8/11/2004 4:14:32 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: doormats - 8/11/2004 4:39:47 PM

slavesuzieQ

Posts: 22
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline

I personally have always related the word "doormat" to someone who was being used in a disrespectful and nonconsensual way. I've never related it to any level of being subservient. My example would be... a woman married to man who cheats on her, doesn't allow her to have any of the money she earns, calls her names, and has such low self esteem that she doesn't change anything is a "doormat". On the other hand, almost the same story, a woman, married to someone who is openly poly, is in charge of the couples money they earn, are into verbal humiliation but both are consenting and she has good self esteem, seems like subservience to me. I also beleive that someone can be a doormat to everyone they meet in life, so I guess my answer would be it depends totally on the self esteem of the person. I am a psychiatric nurse and I counsel "doormats" on a daily basis and have never equated myself with that syndrome, although I consider myself extremely subservient.

(in reply to newflowers)

Post #: 2

RE: doormats - 8/11/2004 7:27:09 PM

Estring

Posts: 1266
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

A doormat is one who allows their submission to be used against them in a relationship. Instead of being uplifting and positive, their relationship is a way to beat them down and reinforce that they are disgusting and worthless. It has nothing to do with submitting completely. My slave would do anything for me, but she understands her worth to me as a slave and as a person. And if I treated her as a doormat, she would be gone in a second.

(in reply to slavesuzieQ)

Post #: 3

RE: doormats - 8/11/2004 7:45:48 PM

slavesuzieQ

Posts: 22
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

A doormat is one who allows their submission to be used against them in a relationship. Instead of being uplifting and positive, their relationship is a way to beat them down and reinforce that they are disgusting and worthless. It has nothing to do with submitting completely. My slave would do anything for me, but she understands her worth to me as a slave and as a person. And if I treated her as a doormat, she would be gone in a second.

Exactly! The word itself is used just like the "doormat" that you wipe your muddy feet on and never give it another thought.

(in reply to Estring)

Post #: 4

RE: doormats - 8/11/2004 8:28:31 PM

angelthighhighs

Posts: 81
Joined: 5/29/2004
Status: offline

it is my understanding that a doormat type of submissive is one that will just do whatever anyone asks of them with no thought of their own or about their own safety or needs. i'm not even sure if its really submission or just perhaps someone that doesn't think much of themselves and doesn't think they deserve to be treated like a human.

(in reply to newflowers)

Post #: 5

RE: doormats - 8/11/2004 11:45:35 PM

Laura

Posts: 393
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

I think a doormat is a sub or slave who takes no responsibility for their own safety or needs. One who lies there and waits for things to happen. One who thinks they aren't allowed to use a safe word or say no in any form. One who types Sir, Master, Lord, etc. because she's told to.

(in reply to newflowers)

Post #: 6

RE: doormats - 8/12/2004 12:52:53 AM

starshine

Posts: 42
Joined: 7/28/2004
From: London
Status: offline

I have to agree with angelthighhighs regarding doormat description. I think low or no self-esteem is a major contributory factor in being prepared to be treated like dirt.

I've come across a lot of men (can't call them proper Doms) online who, although they say they are looking for women with a mind of their own, actually actually do want a doormat to bully. Or maybe I'm just too cynical ....

< Message edited by starshine -- 8/12/2004 12:53:37 AM >

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(in reply to Laura)

Post #: 7

RE: doormats - 8/12/2004 12:55:08 AM

Sundew02

Posts: 458
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline

My thoughts on this is that you do not need to put a gender to the term. Male or female, it doesn't matter. It takes two to make a person feel like a doormat. Once a person walks into your life, you make a choice, that is simply are you going to treat them like a person or a thing? And that person makes the choice am I worth something or not? I personally know no doormats and I never will. I would never consider a submissive or a slave a non-feeling, worthless thing. Sundew

_____________________________

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(in reply to newflowers)

Post #: 8

RE: doormats - 8/12/2004 9:21:51 AM

kiki blue

Posts: 315
Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline

If someone wants a doormat, I direct them to the closest K-Mart.

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Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

(in reply to Sundew02)

Post #: 9

RE: doormats - 8/12/2004 1:38:33 PM

sweetpleaser

Posts: 640
Joined: 8/5/2004
From: Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavesuzieQ

I personally have always related the word "doormat" to someone who was being used in a disrespectful and nonconsensual way.

As stated in my profile, I am new here and really would like to inquire about certain issues. Please be patient. Isn't using humiliation, pony play, golden showers, etc. being disrespectful to a submissive/slave even if it is consensual? It has to do something to their self esteem, doesn't it? How can someone hear that they are a slut all the time and not feel it? How can someone be treated like a dog and not have it start chipping away at their hearts? Is this all just playing? Do submissives/slaves actually like being treated this way? And why?

Thanks for any input!!

ann

(in reply to slavesuzieQ)

Post #: 10

RE: doormats - 8/12/2004 2:39:42 PM

slavesuzieQ

Posts: 22
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline

Hello sweetpleaser.
I believe if that if it's consentual, whether it be verbal humiliation or any of the other examples that you site, if it's what you desire, than it's not the same as being a "doormat". Also, as to why do submissive/slaves desire these interactions, that would be totally subjective to that individual.
Personally, I kind of like being called a "slut" but if someone called me a "dog" I just might have to bite them.

(in reply to sweetpleaser)

Post #: 11

RE: doormats - 8/12/2004 2:49:54 PM

darchart

Posts: 35
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavesuzieQ

Personally, I kind of like being called a "slut" but if someone called me a "dog" I just might have to bite them.

hehehehe...

That just tickled me. I totally understand the feeling.

(in reply to slavesuzieQ)

Post #: 12

RE: doormats - 8/13/2004 11:20:19 AM

Thanatosian

Posts: 688
Joined: 5/10/2004
From: New Castle, PA
Status: offline

quote:

Isn't using humiliation, pony play, golden showers, etc. being disrespectful to a submissive/slave even if it is consensual? It has to do something to their self esteem, doesn't it? How can someone hear that they are a slut all the time and not feel it? How can someone be treated like a dog and not have it start chipping away at their hearts? Is this all just playing? Do submissives/slaves actually like being treated this way? And why?

going a bit out of order here

someone can be called a slut all the time and not feel it in a negative way depending on how the term is used - big difference between 'you are such a slut' (meant negatively in that you fuck any tom dick or harry) and 'you are MY slut' (meant in that you are willing to do whatever I sexually ask of you)

golden showers, humiliation, etc. are another way of expressing ones submissiveness/surrender to the dominant and not necessarily disrespectful to the submissive - again, context is the determining factor

dog and pony any other animal play - CSI last night was a repeat of one of their most popular episodes, the Puffy and Furry Convention - some people just have this kink to be treated like an animal - doesn't have to be seen as degrading

and yes, there are submissives that enjoy and get off on being treated this way - why? because they do - one can speculate many reasons for it (bad childhood, they are nuts, they are weird, it makes them feel loved/wanted, they see it as the 'ultimate' form of submission, et cetera ad infinitum ad nauseum) but in the end it boils down to individual choice

hope this helps

_____________________________

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An expert is somone who has made all the mistakes there are to be made

(in reply to sweetpleaser)

Post #: 13

RE: doormats - 8/13/2004 11:46:30 AM

LadyShoshin

Posts: 480
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline

quote:

As stated in my profile, I am new here and really would like to inquire about certain issues. Please be patient. Isn't using humiliation, pony play, golden showers, etc. being disrespectful to a submissive/slave even if it is consensual? It has to do something to their self esteem, doesn't it? How can someone hear that they are a slut all the time and not feel it? How can someone be treated like a dog and not have it start chipping away at their hearts? Is this all just playing? Do submissives/slaves actually like being treated this way? And why?

Thanks for any input!!

ann

I am sure you have your own kinks & desires or you wouldn't be on this site, to answer your own question, ask yourself why you enjoy the kinky things you enjoy, the answer is very likely similar to those participating in the activities you don't understand.
As a Domme, I find out what turns a sub's crank and work with that in scene. I too have some hard limits like golden showers, blood play, using degrading name calling etc. But I don't question why those people want that, I just inform them that there are few or no commonalities and wish them success in their search. I have been asked as a bottom, why a woman who survived 24 yrs of abusive marriage would allow herself to be restrained and beaten. My answer "Because I can stop it with one word".

_____________________________

PHLOX: “It’s unethical for a doctor to cause harm...I can inflict as much pain as I like.”

(in reply to sweetpleaser)

Post #: 14

RE: doormats - 8/13/2004 5:18:15 PM

sweetpleaser

Posts: 640
Joined: 8/5/2004
From: Florida
Status: offline

Thanatosian:

Thank you for helping me understand better. Thank you also for taking my questions seriously!!

Sincerely,
ann

(in reply to Thanatosian)

Post #: 15

RE: doormats - 8/13/2004 5:23:49 PM

sweetpleaser

Posts: 640
Joined: 8/5/2004
From: Florida
Status: offline

LadyShoshin:

So, if I understand you correctly, if the submissive or slave wants certain activities the Dom/me will oblige and not think them to be a doormat, as per the origin of this thread. I guess as long as you have good communication the activities will not hurt the sub/slave.
Thank you for answering!!

Be well,
ann

(in reply to LadyShoshin)

Post #: 16

RE: doormats - 8/13/2004 7:51:34 PM

Estring

Posts: 1266
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

So, if I understand you correctly, if the submissive or slave wants certain activities the Dom/me will oblige and not think them to be a doormat, as per the origin of this thread

Actually it's the sub who obliges the Doms' wishes and demands. And that doesn't make her a doormat. That makes her submissive.

(in reply to sweetpleaser)

Post #: 17

RE: doormats - 8/14/2004 4:17:16 AM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 3240
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Montréal - Canada
Status: offline

A doormat is what my submissives wipe their feet on before they enter my house to serve me.

- LA

_____________________________

An iron hand in a velvet glove.

(in reply to Estring)

Post #: 18

RE: doormats - 8/14/2004 8:57:24 AM

Sinergy

Posts: 1290
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

Hello,

There was a dance lesson I went to where myself and my partner put our hands together (palms facing) and she had to follow my lead as I moved around the room.
The exercise was to teach her the sensitivity needed to follow what I was leading.

She followed me. I led. The synergy of our movements allowed her (later on in the class) to do things she could not do without me, and vice versa.

I have posted other times, other places, about finding a Stepford submissive. The idea
of a Stepford submissive (aka sub doormat) makes me wince, since I dont want a running-dog yes-submissive. I want somebody who brings something with her to the relationship, maintains her own sense of self, and allows us, in the dance, to reach levels with my lead that we could not arrive at alone.

Just me, could be wrong, but there ya go.

Sinergy

_____________________________

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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle, 44th Vice President of the United States

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 19

RE: doormats - 8/14/2004 9:07:01 AM

pixieunleashed

Posts: 105
Joined: 7/11/2004
Status: offline

I am seeing the term "doormat" being used here only in the negative light. I just wanted to point out that even doormats are useful.

quote:

A doormat is what my submissives wipe their feet on before they enter my house to serve me.

- LA

Being something that someone uses to wipe feet on so someone else can serve you, is still serving you, just in a different light. It is not a bad thing to be a doormat, it is not a good thing either, it depends on how people in the relationship percieve it. If someone wishes to be treated as such, they should be able to do so without being percieved negatively.

_____________________________

**please note that I realize that I am just as full of crap as everybody else, feel free to remind me anytime**

If you understand it.......you've missed the point.

[image]http://img33.exs.cx/img33/2424/pixieunleashed-2.jpg[/image]

(in reply to newflowers)

Post #: 20

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