A confused frustration (Full Version)

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Isara -> A confused frustration (11/24/2005 4:44:38 PM)

Greetings all, I'm a lurker, which I'll freely admit, but I have a situation which I just felt I had to share with you all.

I'm a member of a Live Journal Poly group, and recently one of it's members spoke about an article in a US newspaper, now, I'm not American, I'm Australian, but my temper was barely restrained when reading the thread following the initial post.

Now, here's the situation broadly, and I'm just wondering if any of you have encountered such things.

Mum of the Poly woman in question, wrote to a "Dorothy Dix" type column, which, is much like a "Dear Abby" I'd wager, asking this columnist what she thought about her daughter's situation and the request that her female lover, as well as her children and husband could be invited to Thanksgiving Dinner.

The daughter, who, seems like a lovely lass, found out about the letter when a friend recognised the situation and gave her a ring. Now, I'm not sure about any of you, but when things such as "this isn't a gay issue." Or when Mum says the children are both doing well after the daughter's marriage, and are happier now, while the journalist says they’re still being essentially traumatised and perhaps abused made me very cross.

Journalist lady said that Mum shouldn't stand for being "played" like that by her daughter. Which, led from what I understand-and I will freely admit to being wrong if I am, that Daughter, Son in Law, Children and Significant Other aren’t off to Thanksgiving with their family, rather they’ve chosen to spend the holiday together.

Now, I understand there are many different points of view out there, and was, looking for the views or like situations from any out there, especially perhaps from the US citizens who are celebrating Thanksgiving right about now.

Anyway, look forward to the replies-if any [:D]

Isara.




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: A confused frustration (11/24/2005 7:14:35 PM)

Um I'm totally confused myself.

Holidays are stressful enough. People should spend them with those who will make them feel relaxed and happy. Or, if they insist on being with family, everyone who IS invited should be treated as guests, and guests should respect their gracious hosts.

Holidays are NOT the time to try and make families get shoved together and settle disputes.

Obviously the family should host their own dinner and invite who they want.




Isara -> RE: A confused frustration (11/24/2005 7:22:31 PM)

Yeah, those were my thoughts also. Holidays can be a nightmare, with travel, and cost and the fact a heap of people swarm into a house that often doesn't usually house that many people, but it was the self-righteous tone of the Journalist's letter that really had me hot under the proverbial collar, assuming the children were being traumatised, and that the young lass in question was playing her mother or seeking attention for asking that her whole 'family' be included at the table.

Someone made the point of saying well, if the daughter had been divorced and both the ex-husband and the new boyfriend wished to come to dinner, and it was an amicable situation, few people would think twice of that happening.

Still :) Hope your holidays are far less stressful then hers were.

Isara.




kisshou -> RE: A confused frustration (11/25/2005 8:59:45 PM)

I know a family whose daughter married in her early twenties and divorced a few years later citing that her and her husband were more like brother and sister. On a voyage of self discovery since her divorce she realized she was a lesbian and formed a committed relationship with a female partner. Her extended family (brothers, sisters, neices, nephews, cousins) attend a family reunion once every two years. This woman was told in no uncertain terms that while she and her daughter were invited , her female partner was not invited because they did not want any of the many unmentionables that would be attending to be exposed to a lesbian relationship. The woman refused to attend and her daughter also refused to attend (the daughter felt she should show support for her mom).So sadly the reunion was not complete , sides were taken and hard feelings have existed ever since.
The parents in this case acted stupidly and ignorantly. None of the unmentionables would have been tramatised , the woman had always been discreet, did the parents think her and her partner would hold a make out session in the middle of dinner! It was just a bullshit excuse so the parents would not have to feel uncomfortable. What ever happened to unconditional love?




Isara -> RE: A confused frustration (11/26/2005 1:35:57 PM)

*sighs*
Now, my father always said, "dislike an action, never the person" and while the action doesn't bother me in this circumstance--the daughter's not the mother's. But still, mum in this case clearly had a problem with her daughter's sexuality.

Again, I'm not advocating parents, or anyone for that matter automatically roll over to give into the wishes of people who want things, but in this case, I can't see how this has worked out for the best.

Mum will see her daughter less and less.
Daughter will resent her mother.
Grand-daughter may eventually come to resent her own mother for the exclusion from family events, but will be cut off also from her maternal grand mother, which, is never a nice situation.

*sighs*

Life's complicated, but my heart still goes out to people in these sorts of circumstances.




LadiesBladewing -> RE: A confused frustration (11/26/2005 4:03:27 PM)

I also heard about this letter. The trick is, people who send this kind of letters have already chosen who will receive the letter -- and they choose (with good reason) people whose history of response has supported the answer that they want. That is why it is such a betrayal on the occasions when the trusted advice columnist makes a U-turn and tells the writer exactly what he or she -doesn't- want to hear.

That mother would never have sent her letter to my column (Dear Abbess). My response history has always been pro-poly and pro-gender flexible, as long as everyone is involved of hir own free will. I've also been an open proponent of teaching families how to welcome earlier generations and teach them about the realities of living in an alternative family arrangement of -any- shade.

That being said, I have to agree with the poster who said "don't bring this up for the first time over the holidays." This kind of conversation should be held in a quiet, low-stress time of the year, and the person who initiates it needs to make sure that everyone has time to hash through the issues that will crop up, make sure questions are answered -and- have information so that confused (and potentially angry) family members or friends can ask a third party or look up responses to the most common of their questions. Some of the questions may not crop up until well after the initial discussion, and if the initiator "drops and runs", it leaves the impression of sneaking and trying to deceive, even if that wasn't the intention at all.

If you've already talked it out with the family, and everyone's questions were answered, however, and an understanding was reached that these people are your beloved mates, and the family still chooses to cut out the "extra" partners, it's time to make a really tough decision. An individual could choose to push the issue, and that might not be a bad thing if it was a small squick factor, and getting past this barrier would allow the family to be whole (and happy) for the holiday. On the other hand, if it is going to mean a great deal of stress and discomfort all the way 'round, it might mean spending the holiday with the family-of-choice, rather than the blood-kin... or having the affected individual choose one mate to take, and arrange some wonderful family time for the whole family-of-choice some time down the road.

For me, if my family invited me somewhere and my beloveds weren't welcome, that would be the end of the choice for me. I've told my blood-kin that if they can't take me as I am, then perhaps it is best that neither of us are stressed by the encounter. One of my blood-kin has taken me up on that, and we don't speak except for the rare phone occasion. My father, though, adores SilverRose, and was fond of PhantomDream and Ebony as well. My ex's wife isn't keen on our way of life, but she hasn't cut my mates out, even though she is less than gracious at times. I understand. What we are and do flies in the face of her beliefs. I also respect that she accepts us for the sake of the unmentionables that her husband (my ex) and I share, who love all of their co-parents dearly, and hate to miss a chance to visit with them. So D chokes down her disgust, and opens her house. My ex is openly supportive of our choice, and enjoys spending time with SilverRose. He was ambivalent about PhantomDream and Ebony, but I can understand that, too. Usually, we choose not to overtax D's understanding, and to act with compassion by choosing to do something with the unmentionables away from their home, and then stand around outside and talk to my ex for a while when we drop the unmentionables off. I respect D, and respect that her home is sacred to her, and that we are the antithesis of what she considers "moral". She, in turn, has to give me credit for respecting her feelings as often as I can without actively hurting one of my unmentionables' feelings (like if one of the unmentionables invites us in for a treat that xhe wants to make for us -- or wants us all to come see a piece of artwork or the gown for the Winter Formal or the like).

Having one's beloveds all together for holidays sometimes means making compromises. Each of us has to decide what is important. I am often frustrated by those who will put a doctrine above the happiness of their blood-kin, but my frustration doesn't help -- I always hope that continued education and living joyfully and openly, without needing to rub peoples' faces in what I believe will help shift the balance.

Lady Zephyr




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