RE: Religion and BDSM

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LadiesBladewing -> RE: Religion and BDSM (11/2/2005 5:40:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline Is that Guzman's 'Sendero Luminoso' I have heard such wonderful things about? Wonderingly: ~J Well... I had to look this up. Ha Ha. Ok. Cute joke. shakes my head and goes back to reading

wipmebeetme100 -> RE: Religion and BDSM (11/2/2005 5:50:28 PM)
quote: What religion are you and how has it affected your BDSM lifestyle? I am "star stuff"..... cathy

FangsNfeet -> RE: Religion and BDSM (11/2/2005 7:47:23 PM)
quote: I haven't found a religion that has me firmly cemented in its beliefs. I'm interested in reading about Buddhist teachings and various pagan paths of spirituality That's because you're really a Taoist. Infact, everyone is. We all either find our religions and beliefs along with making our own. Everone puts this and that together to come up with there own conclusions and ideas. Any how, since you are reasearching other beliefs, religions, and cultures; can you point out any ideas or beliefs that go against BDSM or encourage it with the ideas of love, respect, servitude, and discipline? I wonder what the Church of Set has to say on BDSM? It's been a while since I read anything on McVay. I've forgotten most of what the Book of Satan had to say.

DesertRat -> RE: Religion and BDSM (11/2/2005 7:59:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wipmebeetme100 quote: What religion are you and how has it affected your BDSM lifestyle? I am "star stuff"..... cathy Yes, I most definitely believe that. Bob

MasterTalion -> RE: Religion and BDSM (11/3/2005 11:08:30 AM)
I was born/raised Mormon in a very dysfunctional family. When I was 17 before I got into BDSM, I became a very left-side pagan, and have been ever since. so, that's me. :)

candystripper -> RE: Religion and BDSM (11/3/2005 3:20:01 PM)
quote: Born and raised Catholic, educated Jesuit ... and, am still very religious. However, the church and I do not see 'eye-to-eye' on everything - but, I am convinced they shall see the error of their ways and eventually come around to my way of thinking. ~J/LordODiscipline i knew this Man had had a great education -- especially in logic and debate -- i should have guessed He was educated by Jesuits. Whatever your feelings may be about the Catholic Church, i dare anyone to show me a better group of educators, lawyers (canon law) and intellectuals. Me -- i had Sisters of St. Joseph; kinda like being educated as if one were a postulant. i was constantly in trouble, LOL. candystripper

candystripper -> RE: Religion and BDSM (11/3/2005 3:23:06 PM)
quote: I wonder what the Church of Set has to say on BDSM? It's been a while since I read anything on McVay. I've forgotten most of what the Book of Satan had to say. FangsNfeet Sir, can You provide links to this information -- the titles are intriguing. candystripper

darkangel -> RE: Religion and BDSM (11/3/2005 4:16:52 PM)
quote: I wonder what the Church of Set has to say on BDSM? It's been a while since I read anything on McVay. I've forgotten most of what the Book of Satan had to say. LeVey was involved with the Church of Satan - not Set. The Church(Temple) of Set was led by Michael Aquino(sp?), who broke away from the Church of Satan after falling out with McVey, believing he was using the Church for personal gain when he started charging monies. I would suspect that the Church of Set would embrace BDSM as they set forth on a journey for personal enlightenment, knowledge and self discovery. Although how slaves and some submissive personalities would fit into this equasion would be slightly off base with the churches expectations as its quite self centred in approach. Peace and Love *edit with thanks to LadiesBladewing

LadiesBladewing -> RE: Religion and BDSM (11/3/2005 4:24:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: candystripper Me -- i had Sisters of St. Joseph; kinda like being educated as if one were a postulant. i was constantly in trouble, LOL. candystripper[/font][/size][/color] I had both Jesuit priests and the Sisters of St. Joseph for 1st thru 12th grade. I did pretty well with the priests (though the Catechism classes didn't work well for me -- I ask too many questions...), but the sisters and I had a rough time -- again, too many questions, and looking back, I don't think they had the answers to give me. I'd get into arguments with the priests, but they had the information to be able -to- argue (and frankly, though it wasn't encouraged in the kids, the Jesuits have a history of asking too many questions themselves chuckles). The nuns, on the other hand, were taught not to -ask- questions (at least, this is what Sr. Sylvia Marie and Sr. Barbara told me in my junior year when I was considering taking vows -- something they discouraged, because of my generally questioning nature.) Recovering Cathoholic that I am, I chose an alternative path that is every bit as ceremonial as the one I left -- but at least I can ask any question I want, and even hunt up the answers. Lady Zephyr

darkangel -> RE: Religion and BDSM (11/3/2005 4:25:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: candystripper quote: I wonder what the Church of Set has to say on BDSM? It's been a while since I read anything on McVay. I've forgotten most of what the Book of Satan had to say. FangsNfeet Sir, can You provide links to this information -- the titles are intriguing. candystripper You might be able to download a book called 'The Book of Coming Forth By Night', but its hard to come by in full format because its not or general reading so you may get a copy thats not full or has been manipulated. So if you do read it, take it with a pinch of salt unless your positive its from a secure source pinky. Temple of Set tends to be quite closed rank kinda thing, for obvious reasons. But it does have a totally different philosophy to the Church of Satan. Peace and Love ***Edit to add - You might be interested in the Book of the Dead though as well pinky.

LadiesBladewing -> RE: Religion and BDSM (11/3/2005 4:36:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: candystripper quote: I wonder what the Church of Set has to say on BDSM? It's been a while since I read anything on McVay. I've forgotten most of what the Book of Satan had to say. FangsNfeet Sir, can You provide links to this information -- the titles are intriguing. candystripper http://www.meta-religion.com/Esoterism/Satanism/church_of_set.htm http://www.churchofsatan.com/ http://www.churchofsatan.org/ http://www.churchofsatan.org/aslv.html Anton LeVay (not McVey) was head of the Church of Satan (not Church of Set). The Church of Set is an entirely different (and fascinating) entity. While we don't agree fundamentally, I have found both of these paths interesting from an intellectual perspective. I was required to study them as part of my Comparative Religions doctorate and as part of the requirements for elevation to Elder in the Illuminance Fellowship's seminary studies. It squicked me at first that I would have to examine these, but I found that knowing about them didn't do much for me except give me a clear picture of the reality. When I was done, I was able to say "this isn't the right path for me.", and have it be an informed decision. Lady Zephyr

LadiesBladewing -> RE: Religion and BDSM (11/3/2005 4:39:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dark~angel You might be able to download a book called 'The Book of Coming Forth By Night', but its hard to come by in full format because its not or general reading so you may get a copy thats not full or has been manipulated. So if you do read it, take it with a pinch of salt unless your positive its from a secure source pinky. Temple of Set tends to be quite closed rank kinda thing, for obvious reasons. But it does have a totally different philosophy to the Church of Satan. Peace and Love ***Edit to add - You might be interested in the Book of the Dead though as well pinky. The best source is someone actually involved in Temple of Set. Though few and far between, they are out there, and many of them are involved in societies dedicated to the study and understanding of Egyptian history and religion. If there is a university near you, another good resource is likely to be the professor who chairs the Egyptian Studies department. Lady Zephyr

anthrosub -> RE: Religion and BDSM (11/3/2005 4:42:30 PM)
I have no religion as I've "peeked" behind the curtain and know what religion is for and why it exists (in all its manifestations). I'm also not an atheist or agnostic as they are just another "belief" in the sense that zero is a part of the numeric system even though it has no particular value associated with it. I'm outside all this stuff looking in...have been that way since day one. Anyone who's reached this level of understanding knows where I'm coming from. It's not about being right or wrong...it's about being "accurate." I "worship" the Female of our species and that's why I'm involved in BDSM...plain and simple. anthrosub

mnottertail -> RE: Religion and BDSM (11/3/2005 4:47:09 PM)
LOL.......... I was just mindlessly scanning this........ I read (in my mind LeVay) and did not read McVey until I stopped here.......... and I thought obviously Tim didn't have time to write all those books..... and if he did they would be on vans and amphenol. Ron

candystripper -> RE: Religion and BDSM (11/3/2005 5:07:41 PM)
quote: LeVey was involved with the Church of Satan - not Set. The Church(Temple) of Set was led by Michael Aquino(sp?), who broke away from the Church of Satan after falling out with McVey, believing he was using the Church for personal gain when he started charging monies. I would suspect that the Church of Set would embrace BDSM as they set forth on a journey for personal enlightenment, knowledge and self discovery. Although how slaves and some submissive personalities would fit into this equasion would be slightly off base with the churches expectations as its quite self centred in approach. Peace and Love dark~angel TY dark~angel; this is all i want to know. candystripper

candystripper -> RE: Religion and BDSM (11/3/2005 5:13:18 PM)
quote: I had both Jesuit priests and the Sisters of St. Joseph for 1st thru 12th grade. I did pretty well with the priests (though the Catechism classes didn't work well for me -- I ask too many questions...), but the sisters and I had a rough time -- again, too many questions, and looking back, I don't think they had the answers to give me. I'd get into arguments with the priests, but they had the information to be able -to- argue (and frankly, though it wasn't encouraged in the kids, the Jesuits have a history of asking too many questions themselves chuckles). The nuns, on the other hand, were taught not to -ask- questions (at least, this is what Sr. Sylvia Marie and Sr. Barbara told me in my junior year when I was considering taking vows -- something they discouraged, because of my generally questioning nature.) Recovering Cathoholic that I am, I chose an alternative path that is every bit as ceremonial as the one I left -- but at least I can ask any question I want, and even hunt up the answers. Lady Zephyr/LadyBladeswing i actually had my priviledges to ask questions in Religious Instruction taken away permanently. If memory serves, it was because i asked why Mary could not have had more kids after Jesus was born. i was treated -- as were the other girls -- as future nuns (postulants) -- but i knew by age 8 or 9 i would never take sacred vows; i could not swallow the "obedience" requirement. Of course, as i got older, and learnt a bit, i thought it was quite cheesy of the nuns not to explain what "chastity" meant. LMAO. candystripper

WalterRego -> RE: Religion and BDSM (11/6/2005 7:07:32 AM)
I've been away while this thread progressed. If there is a God, then He, She or It must be accessible, approachable and to some degree knowable to every person in every culture and every time period. The same goes for God's teachings and truths. There cannot be one true religion or conception of God. Though I am an observant Jew and could not possibly be a Christian, I believe all religions are valid pathways to God. Which one speaks to us or reveals the most to us depends on our upbringing, intelligence, culture, personal make up. Some will just seem more right and accessible to us, will speak to us, or satisfy us. I count secular humanism and even ethical atheism in that definition. As "followers" or participants in BDSM activities I believe we are all more open than many others to inner life, a desire for illumination, an ability to have achieve physical and spititual illumination, and a capacity for praxis. Thus many of us will be ~ at some time in our lives~ deeply religious in some form or another.

MistressYlwa -> RE: Religion and BDSM (11/6/2005 8:30:24 AM)
I belong to the International Order of Secular Cybelians (Cybelians). Formerly Christian, I also found the politics too restricting and stifling. I was Agnostic until a pagan priestess shared the Goddess with me. Mistress Ylwa You see what power is - holding someone elses fear in your hand and showing it to them! - Amy Tan

anthrosub -> RE: Religion and BDSM (11/6/2005 9:27:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dark~angel It doesnt matter how much people tell you a diety exists. Your right, there is nothing in the texts that can prove anything to you - you have to want to see it. Because religion isnt God - it isnt any gods or goddess'... its in you. People search through religions and organisations and groups and associations but rarely do they search within themselves for the answer. If You cannot find the answer, then the likelihood is that you don't know the actual question. It amazes me sometimes how close you and I come to expressing the same thoughts yet remain at odds about their meaning. In the quote above, you say a person has to "want to see it" (proof of God). I have a slightly different view of this same phenomena...it's precisely because a person is looking for proof that they see it. There's a similar argument in science that the instruments being designed to measure or detect something determine what will be found, so whatever is being studied must already be evident. If this is true, where's the discovery? The truth is in science, most "discoveries" are by accident. A research project uncovers something as a side effect of its goal or someone takes data from several unrelated projects that reveal something totally new that none of them individually could have done (this is how DNA was discovered). But back to your quote, you're absolutely right...God is in each of us because We are God (we just don't know how to deal with it or accept responsibility for our lives). It's much easier to externalize our condition than own it. People as a whole generally don't feel comfortable looking at themselves. It's the last place they will look when searching for an answer. But as I have always said, "The place you need to look for new information will always be in the places you avoid visiting." It's also hard to look at yourself without a mirror...kind of like trying to tell what your own tongue tastes like or see your own eyeball. How would you do that? anthrosub

Sunshine119 -> RE: Religion and BDSM (11/6/2005 9:30:44 AM)
I have graduate degrees in both Theology and Philosophy. While raised Catholic, I was educated by Jesuits, so after long consideration of this subject I have found that my own faith has been expanded to a point where I know so little, I can only agree with Anselm who said that God was "that which than no greater can be conceived". Consequently, since my search takes me to greater and greater heights, discovering diversity, while trying to expand my mind to the greater conception, BDSM is easily incorporated into that search. This search includes the pleasure, pain, obedience, freedom and self-knowledge I am given to experience along the way.

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