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MasterMalice -> The Girl In The Box (7/14/2004 7:34:52 PM)

If Anyone watched A&E tonight I would like to hear your comments of The Girl In The Box. I will add my comments later.

AMERICAN JUSTICE®
The Girl in the Box
Tune In:
Wednesday, July 14 @ 7pm ET/PT

In the Spring of 1977, 20-year-old Colleen Stan left school to hitchhike from Oregon to Los Angeles. Little did she know when she accepted a ride with Cameron and Janice Hooker that she would end up their captive for seven years.


Explore the case that became a national sensation after Colleen finally escaped. Raped, tortured and kept confined, often inside a coffin-like box beneath the Hookers’ waterbed, the Hookers appeared mild-mannered and church going. Cameron Hooker insisted that their perverse master-slave relationship was consensual and that they were in love. Colleen told a very different account. The case remains riddled with contradictions, as expert witnesses, investigators and attorneys discuss what really happened.


http://www.mastermalice.com



Leonidas -> RE: The Girl In The Box (7/14/2004 7:50:29 PM)

Hello Malice,

I haven't seen the documentary in question, and I don't know the specifics of the case, but it raises a related issue that is worth mentioning. Many dominants (especially the men) think that the risk that they take when interacting with a slave or submissive that they don't know is minimal, and that the slave is taking all the risk. It ain't so. As I said, I haven't seen this documentary, and I don't know the case, but every dominant out there needs to be aware that a story like this could be told about them at some point by an emotionally unstable man or woman who feels wronged for whatever reason and wants to "get even". No, it's never happened to me, but I know of instances where it has. The take home lesson is don't rush into things with submissives or slaves that you don't know. They aren't the one taking all the risk.

Take care of yourself.

Leonidas



SherriA -> RE: The Girl In The Box (7/14/2004 8:13:19 PM)

I've read the book "Perfect Victim" which tells Colleen Stan's story. She was vulnerable and Hooker got lucky. He did indeed find a "perfect victim", who he was able to brainwash enough to believe that if she left she would be hunted down, tortured and killed by a secret society of "masters".

It really was a very disturbing story, and yet another example of how NOT to do things.

IMNSHO, ymmv, etc, etc, etc.



UtahGoddess -> RE: The Girl In The Box (7/15/2004 12:35:07 AM)

Just to keep this from becoming a "Let's feel sorry for Cameron Hooker because he was a misunderstood Dom"....I want to remind everyone he was a sadistic KILLER...not a Dom.

I did not see the Television docu-drama in question, but I am familiar with the particulars of this case. So before we go feeling sympathy for him....let's reflect for a few minutes on the fate of his first victim. Marie Spannhake was 18 years old when they stopped to give her a ride. She was beaten, hung from the rafters. To stop her screams he cut her vocal chords. When she still did not comply he attemped to kill her by shooting her with a pellet gun. This "naughty slave" was STILL not obedient enough to die ....so in the end he strangled her.

Just a little added perspective from me to whomever may be interested. You can read more about this case at :

http://www.koolpages.com/bedlam/hooker1.html

Ms Sandi



melycious -> RE: The Girl In The Box (7/15/2004 6:52:17 AM)

i have read numerous books on this case..it always amazes me that because at some point Colleen did not scream and run away and didnt fight the abuse (and yes it was abuse), she somehow requested this encounter?...

lets all sit back, and think.. we are hitchhiking(in a time when hitching was a normal occurance) we got picked up by a straightlooking couple with their infant child in the car.. within an hour, we were bound and our head stuck in a closed box lined with rough carpet, where we could see nothing, hear nothing and a baby was placed on top as a sitting spot. Within the first 12 hours, we are subject to electrical torture, and confined in a close box.... i'm thinking..as much of a smart ass as i am, and as much as i think i would fight, i might also be thinking the this man is incrediably above the normal societal fears (kidnapped in daylight, with infant in tow) and perhaps i need to cooperate. As time went on, i believe she simply was a victims of stockholm syndrome.

is she a victim in this situation ... of course.. is she submissive in general? perhaps.. but in order to enter into a submissive relationship, she needed to know that she was submission and that her submission was as a result of a educated, thought out process. Because she obliged her captor in engaging in his sadastic tendancies does not equal consent on any level.

I agree with the assessment of Cam as a killer, we know about Maria S.. and believe that there may have been others..

I find it interesting that no one has commented on Janice Hooker. the wife, who aided and abetteted (she states she did this because if she let her husband have a slave, he would let her have the baby AND would stop asking her to do the harder stuff), of course, she had the baby, he got the slave AND he continued to torture her as well.. finally she disclosed the history of the previous years..

Interesting case in all its facets....

mely



SirDominion -> RE: The Girl In The Box (7/15/2004 8:20:22 AM)

I have also read the book "Perfect Victim" and the idea that Cameron Hooker was some sort of misunderstood Dom is scary enough.

A good Dom has to be able to tell the difference between what is basically a fantasy between two consenting adults, and reality. Therein lies Hooker's problem, he wanted a "real" slave, someone that was not only completely dependent on him but had no choice but to be completely dependent on him. He tortured Colleen Stans with no regard to her safety, comfort, or even permission for pete's sake. He kidnapped her, and this was no playful fantasy between two people who knew each other, Hooker found someone venerable and he took complete advantage of the situation.

Nor am I comfortable with the idea of Colleen being a "perfect victim", whatever the hell that means. None of us know how we would react to such manipulations (for manipulate Colleen is exactly what Hooker did, from creating phony news articles about the so called BDSM group he belonged to, to creating a sense in her that this organization was world wide and all sorts of important people were in it. Hooker had a surprising level of sophistication when it came to brainwashing techniques). Hell I am a magician that specializes in mentalism and con artistry. Yet even I was almost taken one day by one of the oldest con's in the book, The Pigeon Drop. No one can tell how they will behave when caught completely off guard, like Ms. Stans was, most certainly.

Lord knows I have kept women in boxes, but the difference is that the women in question always knew that all they had to say is "Enough" and that would be that. They were not forced to stick around, and everything, but everything was consensual. I work really hard to make sure that anything I do with a sub/slave is safe, clean, sane and consensual.

I also have to agree that a Dom can be in just as much danger from an unknown sub than a sub with an unknown Dom, though I am not sure if the frequency is quite the same (I have known many subs that have gotten hurt from idiot wannabe Doms, I only know one Dom who was arrested for rape after meeting with a supposed sub). It does not hurt to have some sort of written permission slip when starting play with someone you don't know very well. Don't get me wrong, I don't think a court would accept such a contract as a contract, but it would at least show that the submissive was in an agreeable state of mind before anything happened.

So bottom (heh) line should always be:

Let's all be extremely careful out there.



MistressDREAD -> RE: The Girl In The Box (7/20/2004 11:19:11 AM)

I agree with You Leonidas
and Utah he was a Sadist
which is a part of BDSM.
One need not be a Dominant
nor a suplicant to be BDSM
and many S/M folks are religious.
True the not so happy ending
side of Our Lifestyle but a very
real and true part of it none the
less. A Sadist at any given time
can overstep control if They feel
They can or have gotten away
with it. However the majority of
Us can and do keep control of
these desires at All times. The
majority of Sadists you will never
know for most hide their Sadistic
desires and actions and travel
amonst a small group of like minded.
Like stories of this are more common
then you think. Many only hear the
stories of such from their local areas.
Its very easy to see the statistics
Country wide and World wide on the
Police, Sheriff, State Troopers, FBI,
public information sites.



dixiedumpling -> RE: The Girl In The Box (7/20/2004 1:08:15 PM)

I believe there's a generally accepted condition that develops when someone is at someone else's complete mercy. They hold your life in their hands, they torture you and keep you in a closet or box. Brainwashing? But there's another name for it. Something Syndrome. Think about Patty Hurst. Or Elizabeth Smart. They couldn't have run away even if they had been given the opportunity to. They are literally scared to disappoint their captor. They begin to identify with the person who has the control. This isn't about D/s. Hooker was/is a criminal and Colleen was a victim.



Sinergy -> RE: The Girl In The Box (7/20/2004 1:14:19 PM)

quote:

They are literally scared to disappoint their captor.


The psychology is a lot deeper than just fear.

An abused spouse, a hostage, or other's who live in terror simply hit a point where they can no longer comprehend a life outside of the situation they are in. They identify with their captors, and in many cases correspond with them in jail as if they are lovers or former lovers.

I hear people talk about how a survivor of spousal abuse should just "leave her husband" and these people dont realize that, for the most part, she cannot.

Sinergy



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