RE: Gorean Forum? (Full Version)

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nella -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/9/2005 5:51:08 AM)

i am in favor of a Gorean board, it would i think reduse the number of other treads that degrade into simple Gor bashing. As for etiquette on the Gorean forum, would not that be like etiquette on the rest of this site, be resonably polite and respectfull.

There is hovever somtimes problems whit this in the Gorean chat room, even if it in now way say you have to follow Gorean protocol, many expect it none the less. Espesialy Gorean slaves, stragely enough, seam to get anoyed if a girl do not act like a Gorean slave even if she has said she is not.

Here is one sugestion, for open Gorean forums and chat rooms in general. What aboute considering non Gorean submissives, and perhaps slaves to as free servants. Sobmissive sure, low on the sosial rank, sure, but not expected to follow Gorean protocol for slaves.



cellogrrlMK -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/9/2005 6:10:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nella

i am in favor of a Gorean board, it would i think reduse the number of other treads that degrade into simple Gor bashing. As for etiquette on the Gorean forum, would not that be like etiquette on the rest of this site, be resonably polite and respectfull.

There is hovever somtimes problems whit this in the Gorean chat room, even if it in now way say you have to follow Gorean protocol, many expect it none the less. Espesialy Gorean slaves, stragely enough, seam to get anoyed if a girl do not act like a Gorean slave even if she has said she is not.



Hi nella... I must say that I have not encountered that from any of the "girls" in the main Gorean chatroom here. In fact, quite the opposite. They've all been great and put up with me very gracefully! LOL

quote:


Here is one sugestion, for open Gorean forums and chat rooms in general. What aboute considering non Gorean submissives, and perhaps slaves to as free servants. Sobmissive sure, low on the sosial rank, sure, but not expected to follow Gorean protocol for slaves.


My feelings are twofold... one part is that a Gorean forum here should be subject to the same rules as any other forum here and the other part is why have a forum for Goreans if they can't follow their own protocol? However, if that happens I also think that more people may be turned off to the whole thing and more "division" would be created.

cello



Faramir -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/9/2005 7:33:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenofPK
Every time a Gorean man says a damn thing on this forum, they are blasted because they are not kissing a submissive's ass, or automatically respecting everyone just because THEY say so?? Goreans are known for being separatists and segregated from the rest of society. And if, in order for Goreans to participate on this forum in a semblence of their own element, a Gorean forum becomes created........then the rules are quite simple: If you don't like the way a place operates.........simply don't go there! It's not like it will be the only place on the whole forum for you to go and discuss things. Goreans, in general, tend to not conform to things that they are not. It goes against their basic beliefs. Don't expect Goreans to change the way they are in their OWN forum.

Raven



This is a perfect articulation of why a Gorean forum is a bad idea for CM as a whole. This impulse to retreat to "your" space is comforting, but it is a retreat, a self-segregation.

I don't want to lose the Goreans. I want them here, because I value the different perspective they bring. I don't want them to have their special Gorean comfort zone space - I want them in the mix because they add something to the general discussion.

I bring a certain, highly romantic M/s viewpoint to the conversation, others bring a "What's love got to do with it?" view, the Lifestylers here bring something,the Goreans bring something - the last thing we want is ghettoization of our community.

Self-chosen ghettoization is still ghettoization.



nella -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/9/2005 7:35:24 AM)

i can follow etiquette if i am informed aboute it, but i do think it might piss some pepole of.

it might be just that i have been unlucky, the Gorean girls i have met, whit serveral exeptions of course, have had a tendency to be a bit sublier than you pepole. [;)]



Lordandmaster -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/9/2005 8:19:52 AM)

If they want their own forum, I don't exactly see who you are to tell them that they can't have it.

You won't be losing the Goreans. You'll be able to visit them in the Gorean forum anytime you'd like.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

This is a perfect articulation of why a Gorean forum is a bad idea for CM as a whole. This impulse to retreat to "your" space is comforting, but it is a retreat, a self-segregation.

I don't want to lose the Goreans. I want them here, because I value the different perspective they bring. I don't want them to have their special Gorean comfort zone space - I want them in the mix because they add something to the general discussion.

I bring a certain, highly romantic M/s viewpoint to the conversation, others bring a "What's love got to do with it?" view, the Lifestylers here bring something,the Goreans bring something - the last thing we want is ghettoization of our community.

Self-chosen ghettoization is still ghettoization.




perverseangelic -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/9/2005 8:22:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
I've been following the response to this with some amusement. I've never known you to be anything but courteous, perverse. I have no doubt that you could participate in a Gorean forum and express your views in a civil manner.


THank you. I try, at least. I figure disagrement doesn't mean being rude about something.

quote:


I don't know of any Goreans (other than the chatroom Warrior type) who would expect you to comport yourself as a Gorean slave just because you have a vagina or call yourself submissive. I've entertained a woman and her master from this site in my living room, and, while they are learning about how I live, they don't claim to be Gorean and I didn't expect them to behave as Goreans.

"Gorean only" forums are different. If you post there, you are doing so with the implicit claim to be Gorean, and you are expected to behave as such. I think you were arguing against the presence of a "Gorean only" forum here, and I would agree. There are enough of them for those who want to interact in a "Gorean only" atmosphere. I've taken some heat for the way that I run the Gorean community chat here because I don't require protocol of everyone. I don't, because this isn't a "Gorean only" site and in my estimation being open to those who want to approach, respectfully, and learn about how we live is one of the more compelling reasons for being here.


I hoped that this would be the way the forum would be run, but I've seen enough message boards to feel that saying something about protocal was necessary. Mostly this is because I like being able to particpate adn -really- don't like getting badmouthed for not doing things "right."

The few times I've contributed to Gorean threads, I've done my darndest to be polite, and disagree with the statements, not the individuals, but I've still gotten some nasty mails on the other side. Oddly enough, as Cello pointed out, from owned girls that opperate in the Gorean system.

Also, like Faramir said, I hope that a spesific board wouldn't cause individuals to withdraw from the other boards totally. I don't think that the majority would do this. Maybe I have too much faith in people but I think the people who would withdraw to a single board because of perceived slights, IMHO, are the kind that would stop frequenting a message board the first time someone didn't conform to their ideas of behavior. I'd like to think no one currently active here is like that.


quote:


Original: Raven

Then why insist Goreans conform to your (generalization to bdsm or whatever) way? Sounds like a double standard to me.


Well, it -is- in a way, and I don't deny that.

However, not everyone wants to be/should be treated by a Gorean standard. Let me put it this way--just as in the non-message board, vanilla world, Gorean individuals must relax (my understandign of) thier perceptions to be polite to all individuals, I think that this board should fall under the same rules.

Perhaps if it would help, for the sake of this board consider all individuals who are not of Gorean background "free" individuals, and treat them as such? After all, we -are- free in the Gorean sense. Would a compromise like that work while allowing you to express your world-view?





IronBear -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/9/2005 8:33:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir


quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenofPK
Every time a Gorean man says a damn thing on this forum, they are blasted because they are not kissing a submissive's ass, or automatically respecting everyone just because THEY say so?? Goreans are known for being separatists and segregated from the rest of society. And if, in order for Goreans to participate on this forum in a semblence of their own element, a Gorean forum becomes created........then the rules are quite simple: If you don't like the way a place operates.........simply don't go there! It's not like it will be the only place on the whole forum for you to go and discuss things. Goreans, in general, tend to not conform to things that they are not. It goes against their basic beliefs. Don't expect Goreans to change the way they are in their OWN forum.

Raven



This is a perfect articulation of why a Gorean forum is a bad idea for CM as a whole. This impulse to retreat to "your" space is comforting, but it is a retreat, a self-segregation.

I don't want to lose the Goreans. I want them here, because I value the different perspective they bring. I don't want them to have their special Gorean comfort zone space - I want them in the mix because they add something to the general discussion.

I bring a certain, highly romantic M/s viewpoint to the conversation, others bring a "What's love got to do with it?" view, the Lifestylers here bring something,the Goreans bring something - the last thing we want is ghettoization of our community.

Self-chosen ghettoization is still ghettoization.



I cant immagine why, Faramir, you think you'd be losing the Gorean contingent if a Gorean Forum is opened. I immagine that those of us who already post here and in other forums will continue to do so. Personally I'm in favour if only for the reason that if one or three of us want to post a thread on specific Gorean issues, the Gor Forum is the ideal place to do so. Its even possible that Goreans posting in a Gor Forum wont attract as much flack as they do on a Gor related thread here. Its sort of like me dropping my tweeds in a shopping mall, it would raise some irate comments, [:-] whereas if I get nakid at a nudist beach no one will get upset. However I do take youtr points which you have raised and have given them some thought.



Faramir -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/9/2005 8:43:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

I cant immagine why, Faramir, you think you'd be losing the Gorean contingent if a Gorean Forum is opened. I immagine that those of us who already post here and in other forums will continue to do so. Personally I'm in favour if only for the reason that if one or three of us want to post a thread on specific Gorean issues, the Gor Forum is the ideal place to do so. Its even possible that Goreans posting in a Gor Forum wont attract as much flack as they do on a Gor related thread here. Its sort of like me dropping my tweeds in a shopping mall, it would raise some irate comments, [:-] whereas if I get nakid at a nudist beach no one will get upset. However I do take youtr points which you have raised and have given them some thought.


Because there would be a natural propensity for you and other Goreans to tend to post some of your BDSM and D/s thoughts there. Would you never post anywhere else? No, but if you post 10 times a week, and four of them now go in the Gor forum, your content is now spread out more - you've diluted your general contribution.

This is the same thing I see in MMORPGs - as the virtual "geography" expands, the player base becomes more and more diluted - spread out over more, so a zone that used to be vital and kicking is now empty.

Networks increase in value as they increase in size and density.



Alexander -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/9/2005 9:01:59 AM)


I’m thinking of switching to high table protocols so I may have lost my big G license, but I'd like to add a thought that may or may not have made it to this thread. Regardless of where or what you name a forum Some Goreans are going to go there and try to educate people on the way they like to get down (my phrasing.) Part of the G philosophy from some people is "setting it straight" and that requires a little proselytizing. So what I’m getting at is, you can make a forum and it will get used but people are still going to wonder what the heck Gorean is and post all over the place about it, and someone's going to show up and tell them.

Leonidas! We're moving to a bigger (cross your fingers) house within the month or so. Find some free time!



nella -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/9/2005 1:05:32 PM)

There is many users on this forum and even should some of them deside to post just in one forum, there will be plenty more left for the rest.



Lordandmaster -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/9/2005 4:48:54 PM)

No, because the Gorean forum, like any other forum, would be open to every user on Collarme. So anyone who wants to read what IronBear has to say can find his posts regardless of which forum he chooses to post them to. I really don't see how you can tell people where they should post what. You can't dictate the terms of this hypostatized "discussion" you keep talking about. People are free.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

Because there would be a natural propensity for you and other Goreans to tend to post some of your BDSM and D/s thoughts there. Would you never post anywhere else? No, but if you post 10 times a week, and four of them now go in the Gor forum, your content is now spread out more - you've diluted your general contribution.




nella -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/9/2005 5:25:53 PM)

i agree, adding a Gorean forum would loose us nothing, but gain us a bit more an orderly forum that was more easy to navigate.



jocelyn -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/9/2005 8:41:50 PM)

ModOne...

Conversation is like love - adding more of it doesn't diminish what was in existence before. I welcome all flavors in this place - and learn from all of them. For some obvious reasons, I also get twitchy when communities start to make "we're exclusive" noises. My brand of tolerance says, "Bring 'em on!" From a financial standpoint, you might find also find a real niche among the followers of Gor - too bad that you can't track which flavors of kink generate the most donations. Heh, heh...

In case I haven't mentioned it lately, THANK YOU for all the work you all do on collarme - it's greatly appreciated by this slave!!!



IronBear -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/10/2005 3:20:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

No, because the Gorean forum, like any other forum, would be open to every user on Collarme. So anyone who wants to read what IronBear has to say can find his posts regardless of which forum he chooses to post them to. I really don't see how you can tell people where they should post what. You can't dictate the terms of this hypostatized "discussion" you keep talking about. People are free.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

Because there would be a natural propensity for you and other Goreans to tend to post some of your BDSM and D/s thoughts there. Would you never post anywhere else? No, but if you post 10 times a week, and four of them now go in the Gor forum, your content is now spread out more - you've diluted your general contribution.




Thankyou LaM, that is part is why I believe in a Gorean Forum. I'll still be haunting the two main ones I post in anyway (Ask A Master & this one).To be honest, I probably be the least user of a Gorean Forum compared to other Goreans but I will be there reading and adding my thoughts. One hope I do have is to be able to become involved in Gorean discussions in an adult manner which is sadly lacking in several; other Gorean Sites where, unless you have been there for years they done even acknowledge you exist. I and others have left a number of them for this reason and I amagine a few will gravitate to here, which will benifit the community here with their knowledge and whit.



smilezz -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/10/2005 3:19:16 PM)

quote:

Cant believe the moderator was correct that this would turn into a flame thread somehow

I have seen flame threads, this is not even close.
quote:

A simple simple solution for you. Any un-owned lady that goes in there is owned by CM and I believe CM agrees with free speech

I have been in quite a few Gorean forums, i do not claim to be Gorean, i do not claim to have alot of knowledge about their way of life either. I will say that i have always been welcome...it's a curiousity, i enjoy speaking to people, i am just polite and ask alot of questions. I have never been told that i can not practice free speech in any of them.
I also have a few people that i call friends that live a Gorean way in r/l...they are just as human as anyone else.

~smilezz~




perverseangelic -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/10/2005 3:40:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: smilezz
I have been in quite a few Gorean forums, i do not claim to be Gorean, i do not claim to have alot of knowledge about their way of life either. I will say that i have always been welcome...it's a curiousity, i enjoy speaking to people, i am just polite and ask alot of questions. I have never been told that i can not practice free speech in any of them.
I also have a few people that i call friends that live a Gorean way in r/l...they are just as human as anyone else.

~smilezz~


I think that I've been unlucky enough to run into the very unwelcoming chat spaces, and the well...non-human...cyberpunks.

I know my perception has been skewed, but it's the background Iv'e come from, if that makes sense.



stormsfate -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/10/2005 4:20:14 PM)

quote:

This makes no sense. The proposed Gorean Forum comes IN RESPONSE TO REQUESTS for it. Really, how could anyone object? Making smaller and smaller pools of conversation would be a bad idea only if people weren't asking for specific forums.


I agree with LaM. If one isn't into Gorean philosophies they can skip it by, but we've had a good number of threads on the topic and there does appear to be a genuine interest in it, so what would the harm be?

I hope they don't get what the poly forum gets though...people popping in to state all the reasons why they would never be interested in such a relationship and bashing those that are :::rolling eyes:::


best regards,
fate



SilverK -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/10/2005 11:07:16 PM)

Hello cello!

(Sorry -couldn't resist the pun)

By and large I don't involve much in forums. Mostly through lack of time to keep on top of them.

This post was one I was kind of asked to look in on and did.

It's good to see you again too. Been awhile! :-)

I would expect that any Gorean forum here would be run with the same general character as Leonidas' channel. Quite simply because it seems the very best way to run a channel which non-Goreans have access too. Anything else would seem rude and that just isn't something I think is desired and is certainly not needed!

I hope you come visit again soon!

Silver



BeachMystress -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/10/2005 11:48:01 PM)


I've had to think a while about this one before deciding my position. I understand the devotees of Gor wanting a forum about thier interests, but I have to come down against it. Personally, I'd not ever have a reason to visit a Gorean board. Due to several posts in "Ask a Master" on Gor, I've learned some things about it I didn't know. I like learning. I like the diversity that the Gor posters bring to that forum. Yeah, some of them may squick me at times, but overall they are a plus.

If you start over dividing the forums, you'll lose some of the dynamic nature. Part of why the forums are good is that they're active and many people read and post. We get opinions and knowledge from all walks of life and flavors of BDSM. When you start portioning things off into sub categories, you lose the concentration of people. There is such a thing as too much expansion (notice Crown Books no longer exists) and I think our forums are pretty good where they are.



Lordandmaster -> RE: Gorean Forum? (8/11/2005 7:52:34 AM)

Beach, that's a contradiction. If you like learning about what the Goreans have to say, you would be able to see what they have to say in their own forum. If you're adamant that you wouldn't have any reason to visit a Gorean forum, then it's not really true that you want to hear them. It sounds to me as though you like the convenience of hearing Gorean voices in the forums you frequent anyway, and don't want to have to bother looking at other forums if the Goreans start posting somewhere else. As I've said in response to Faramir, I can't identify with that attitude. People are free.

(By the way, I'm not Gorean myself, and find it about as outlandish as you do.)

Anyway, I also don't understand why it matters whether something is posted in this forum or that. I don't surf by forum categories; I just call up the list of new posts since I last logged on, and read through the thread titles one by one, regardless of the forum where they came from. If fact, if you really believe that you can learn the most from hearing the most diverse group of voices, I can't imagine any other m.o.



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