RE: intoxication fetish

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Mercnbeth -> RE: intoxication fetish (7/14/2005 12:49:40 PM)
quote: For the same reason that blond haired people dont' always have blond kids, that dark-skinned people can give birth to light-skinned people, and that I have blue eyes while both of my parents have brown/hazel eyes. Excellent point, and one to build on. With every genetic pool of random selection there still exists a calculated percentage of result, one, with a big enough pool of data, that always generates the expected result. Your examples site the effect of dominant versus recessive gene. Much to beth's chagrin, since red hair is carried on a recessive gene, it's calculated that in the foreseeable future the only red heads will come from a bottle. On a more serious note diseases such as hemophilia are statistically calculated and proven at a specific rate, when present in the genes of un-symptomatic parents. Yet, no study on obesity or alcoholism ever produced the same definitive statistical data. Even assuming that alcoholism is carried as a recessive trait, two alcoholic parents should produce a high if not 100% occurrence of alcoholic children. There is no observable evidence of this. Interestingly enough there is a greater correlation of obese children born to obese parents. Does this suggest that obesity is more of a dominant gene trait? I dont' think so. More likely everyone in the family is eating wrong. Being fat and having limited physical activity is "normal" and accepted in the the family unit.

perverseangelic -> RE: intoxication fetish (7/14/2005 1:16:55 PM)
Just as haircolor isn't a simple dominant/recessive gene, effected only by 1 site, I imagine if alchoholism is genetic, it is influcenced by a several genes at different sites. We have been studying hair color for quite some time, the research into alchoholism is much newer. I don't know whether or not I think it is a disease. I think there are genetic predispositions for addiction. I do think that an alchoholic should not be viewed as "a volunteer" nor a weak human. I think thre is a LOT more that goes into alchohol and drug dependancy than personal strenght, and to fail to take that into account is to do a great disservice to the individual.

DesertRat -> RE: intoxication fetish (7/14/2005 3:05:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: dangerously misguided crap Bob, with all due respect, I think much of the disease/cure circle of life is a much bigger load of crap. People are drunks, fat, misbehaved, and don't pay attention because they don't have discipline in their lives; self or care giver (in the case of children) provided. I am in substantial, but not complete agreement. As I said, for me, it doesn't matter if it's a disease or not...I just don't drink or get high anymore. If others want to do the disease thing, I don't care. I just take care of my own shit. I totally agree about the "obesity as a disease" issue. I enforce a discipline on myself--exercise and eating wisely--that keeps me in shape. It boils down to people taking responsibility for their own lives. I definitely believe that. I also believe that date rape DOES happen and the callous comment about that was the "load of crap" to which I was referring. Guess that wasn't clear. Bob

geargirl -> RE: intoxication fetish (7/14/2005 11:05:15 PM)
To have a strong man to hold you down and take your power and lay there helpless and be taken is an amazing exsperience. Talk about mind blowing. Being able to exsplore role play this way is a safe and controlled manor away from real harm. monsters only hide in the dark

perverseangelic -> RE: intoxication fetish (7/15/2005 9:15:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: geargirl To have a strong man to hold you down and take your power and lay there helpless and be taken is an amazing exsperience. Talk about mind blowing. Being able to exsplore role play this way is a safe and controlled manor away from real harm. I don't need mind altering substances to do this, though. My belonging to my partner is enough to render me helpless. Either that or ropes or his strength. quote: monsters only hide in the dark My biggest ones hide in plain sight in bright sun. (Yes, I'm speaking symbolically as well.)

EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: intoxication fetish (7/15/2005 9:58:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: perverseangelic I don't need mind altering substances to do this, though. My belonging to my partner is enough to render me helpless. Either that or ropes or his strength. You don't NEED ropes to render you helpless, but you WANT it, it makes you EXCITED, it INCREASES the feeling. Rope is your kink, being drugged is hers. Both are mine. :)

perverseangelic -> RE: intoxication fetish (7/15/2005 10:58:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2 quote: ORIGINAL: perverseangelic I don't need mind altering substances to do this, though. My belonging to my partner is enough to render me helpless. Either that or ropes or his strength. You don't NEED ropes to render you helpless, but you WANT it, it makes you EXCITED, it INCREASES the feeling. Rope is your kink, being drugged is hers. Both are mine. :) You're right. I'm being unfair. I have too much of a history with drug and alchohol abuse to be able to be totally openminded about the fetish. ~sigh~ I appologize Geargirl.

mistoferin -> RE: intoxication fetish (7/16/2005 9:14:31 PM)
quote: Alcoholism became a "disease" when society deemed that all human weakness and lack of self discipline warranted disease status. You know that I most always agree with you guys but this time I just can't. beth, I completely understand your stance in regards to the never ending profit machine in medicine today. This, however, is not one of those instances. Alcoholism became a disease when it was discovered that the BODIES of alcoholics are chemically different than the bodies of non alcoholics. Now I am not referring to those party animals that can't get a handle on their drinking and use the tag of alcoholism to somehow relieve themselves of responsibility, I am referring to those who medically fit the criteria, and yes I do believe that there has been enough research at this point to be able to definitively say that they indeed exist. Nor am I trying to say that there is no responsibility on the part of the alcoholic. I believe that we ALL are responsible for our actions in this life, regardless of our "status" medically or psychologically....anything less is a mere copout. I am attaching a few links that may provide interesting reading for those who are interested. If your opinions are different than mine that is fine, I don't expect everyone to see it through my eyes. I have lived with alcoholics, I have worked with thousands of them and I have researched the subject at far greater length than the average citizen and contemplated all of the naysayers so I guess I am pretty well set in my views at this point. You may get something entirely different from it so use what you can and throw away the rest. http://www.voai.org/what_causes_alcoholism.htm http://the101program.com/newsletters/June2004-101.html http://webpages.charter.net/rfhale/alcoholism.htm http://www.msag.org/BBCA/disease_concept.htm

MrThorns -> RE: intoxication fetish (7/18/2005 8:58:14 AM)
My only issue with intoxication play, or using any form of mind-altering substance in a scene is the people who will come onto websites afterwards and complain about how they were abused by their partner while they were consentually intoxicated. How many date rapes involved alcohol or other substances? Would that be considered consentual intoxication play? (Not actually looking for answers to these questions, btw...) I just see soooo many ways that this kind of play could go wrong, so I won't be a party to it, but for those who are willing to do it, and take responsibility for their actions while doing so...hey, more power to ya. ~Thorns

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