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is there a always an alpha - 7/8/2005 6:10:50 AM

teapaw

Posts: 97
Joined: 5/5/2005
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is there always an alpha female in poly relationships?
I have just recently joined my Master and his wife (sister slave) and he wants us to be equal. I am from the old style where slaves kept not only Master happy but kept the house clean, laundry done, animals feed, etc...She is not like that..she is lazy and Master falls for her excuses.. I find I am doing all the work..If we are supposed to be equal why I am the only one working?
I am also always the one who is asked things like "lets go play with her" but she has never played with me.....sexually..except the time my best firend came to visit then she was all over the attention....
I love them both dearly but it is making me resentful..I have spoken to my Master and he just makes excuses for her....she have never been taught to clean (though they have been together more then five years) she isnt feeling well (allot ofthe time)
..*sigh* I dont know..maybe asking for advise or just venting will help..thanks for listening....A/all

< Message edited by teapaw -- 7/8/2005 6:48:15 AM >

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Post #: 1

RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/8/2005 6:25:55 AM

stormsfate

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Joined: 2/1/2005
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There isn't always an alpha in response to your question, but even so, being equal doesn't mean that everyone will necessarily have the same role and/or the same responsibilities.

Have you considered speaking with her directly about how you feel? If nothing else, you may discover why these aren't things that are important to her and may be able to reach some compromises. It doesn't seem to be all that important to your owner, or else he would deal with the situation, but if given a foothold and kept inside, resentment can destroy a relationship at an alarming rate.

best regards,
fate

_____________________________

Storm1206 - Author of my dark desires...Owner of my soul.

stormsvision - chainsister and partner in crime.

(in reply to teapaw)

Post #: 2

RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/8/2005 6:37:26 AM

EmeraldSlave2

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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What Fate said.

And this isn't an alpha issue, this is just a normal relationship responsibility issue.

Why shouldn't she keep being lazy as long as you keep doing all the work? I know if there was a sub around to do cleaning for the Owner, I'd be more than happy to let them do all of it.

However, since you're feeling resentful, you all obviously need to sit down and communicate on what expectations mean and all.

Personally I think it's a bad idea when a dom says "all my women are equal" because they obviously aren't. Each person has their own unique skills, an individual relationship with the dom, and their particular niche in the relationship. This needs to be recognized and encouraged, not shoved aside for the "good of the group."

(in reply to stormsfate)

Post #: 3

RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/8/2005 6:44:08 AM

imtempting

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Joined: 2/11/2005
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I disagree with what the others have said. I feel there is always an alpha female or male. Someone will always get better treatment. By what you said it seems like your the slave only

(in reply to teapaw)

Post #: 4

RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/8/2005 7:03:10 AM

EmeraldSlave2

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: imtempting

I disagree with what the others have said. I feel there is always an alpha female or male. Someone will always get better treatment. By what you said it seems like your the slave only

The fact is that I know many leather families that have no alpha system.

As far as get better treatment, how do you define that? The Owner lives with his life partner, but I don't think she gets treated "better" she simply gets treated as his life partner. I am his slave and I get treated as his slave.

My boyfriend gets treated like my boyfriend, he doesn't get treated "better" or "worse" than the Owner.

(in reply to imtempting)

Post #: 5

RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/8/2005 7:07:25 AM

teapaw

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Joined: 5/5/2005
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She says she is willing to do the house work and that she wants too, Master also says this, though I havent seen her lift a finger. The house is a MESS....nothing is important to her except her books. I feel its not important to him either which makes me sad...I enjoy living in a clean house...I am trying really hard to communicate with both. T/they seem so willing to work on it but it just doenst happen....I figure another few months for change??

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Post #: 6

RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/8/2005 7:11:37 AM

teapaw

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Joined: 5/5/2005
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She was lazy long before I got here..LOL....I guess it comes down to T/them not caring and I do..She states that since I am working she is going to be caring for the house. Which never gets done...she even admits to being a procrastinator....LOL....Master is always in the mind set of "the good of the group"I am not fromthat background...the Master always came first...then the house etc....I am hoping that since this is all new to me that it will disapate given time....cause damn the tumble weeds of dog hair are driving me nuts!!

M,aybe I should just clean and shut up about it...

thank you for listening

pamela

_____________________________

"get a taste of reiligion ...lick a witch"

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 7

RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/8/2005 7:14:38 AM

teapaw

Posts: 97
Joined: 5/5/2005
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Well if you put it that way....then I get all the attention and time with Master

, my sister slave could care less if he ever touches her....LOL..she reads all day or plays on the pc.....so deos that make me more or less of a slave....

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"get a taste of reiligion ...lick a witch"

(in reply to imtempting)

Post #: 8

RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/8/2005 8:01:27 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3610
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: teapaw

She says she is willing to do the house work and that she wants too, Master also says this, though I havent seen her lift a finger. The house is a MESS....nothing is important to her except her books.

Well they've obviously been like this for a long time. They enjoy it. The other slave probably IS willing to do housework and wants to on some level, but as a not neat person, I can tell you that we simply SEE messes differently from neat people. We don't see a mess as a reason to need to clean it. For me it's when I'm having company over or can't find things that I know I need to clean. Otherwise, it just doesn't bother me.

quote:

I feel its not important to him either which makes me sad...I enjoy living in a clean house...

So you think he's wrong for not sharing the same cleaning priorities as you?

YOU are the one who likes to clean. YOU are obviously the only who makes it a priority.

YOU are getting upset because they don't share your priorities, which is being unfair to them. Your feelings of resentment are understandable, but they are also irrational and sounds more like something you need to accept or reject- they aren't neat people, they aren't going to change, and there's no reason for them when they have a happy cleaning sub who WANTS to do it.

You feel like you are doing all the work, but the others don't really CARE about the work. You're the only one really caring, and then getting upset when they don't care too. You're the one making yourself feel like you need to do the work in the first place. Let them be who they are, and let yourself be who you are. They shouldn't make you feel bad for wanting to clean so much and you shouldn't make them feel bad for not wanting to clean so much.

quote:

I am trying really hard to communicate with both. T/they seem so willing to work on it but it just doenst happen....I figure another few months for change??

Maybe, but doubtful. I've experienced enough roommates to realize some people see mess a certain way and others don't. You either accept that's how they see it and set up "your space" like you like it and forget the rest, or you let it drive you crazy when others aren't doing what you think they should.

(in reply to teapaw)

Post #: 9

RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/8/2005 8:29:04 AM

teapaw

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Joined: 5/5/2005
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yeah your right...I was caught up in an emotional state of mind that just got tangled up in my head somewhere....thanks for helping me sort through it....**hugs** sometimes it just needs someone elses persective...

I think I will ask for my own space so I can keep it as clean as I want...:)

thanks again
pamela

_____________________________

"get a taste of reiligion ...lick a witch"

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 10

RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/8/2005 9:13:52 AM

wolfspirits

Posts: 36
Joined: 6/7/2005
Status: offline

teapaw, merry meet! when emerald mentioned that in most leather families there is no alpha,I thought wow this is not how ive expierienced poly then noticed the"like A witch" ( I had that On my bumper yrs. ago) Is your master & sister slave pagans too? Now That Master Mtn. Wolf and I are married Im alpha. but I always wasnt alpha. i ve been in other relationships where I was second, third , forth and in another time in group family of 7 fem 4 males and the primary couple were hand fasted still together but no longer having sex with each other there love moved to a deep friendship. anyway im wondering , I think its strange that she doesnt care if your Master touches you or pays attention. my thoughts on that is if its true maybe she wants someone to take care of her? talk with her and find out why you do all the work and how you feel about that. good luck, BB.
Lady Silver Of Wolfspirits

(in reply to teapaw)

Post #: 11

RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/8/2005 10:12:18 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3610
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wolfspirits

teapaw, merry meet! when emerald mentioned that in most leather families there is no alpha,I thought wow this is not how ive expierienced poly then noticed the"like A witch" ( I had that On my bumper yrs. ago) Lady Silver Of Wolfspirits

What I actually said was:

quote:

The fact is that I know many leather families that have no alpha system.

Not "most leather families."

My response was to tempting who said he felt there was ALWAYS an alpha. This is obviously not true.

We can debate exactly how prevalent alpha/non-alpha relationships in poly are, but I feel my statement was modified appropriately.

(in reply to wolfspirits)

Post #: 12

RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/8/2005 10:48:34 AM

teapaw

Posts: 97
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

Merry Meet! Lady Silver Of Wolfspirits
Its great to met another pagan here, please feel free to contact me offline.
I have experienced poly as in a vanilla pagan relationship or as a M/s relationship with an alpha. So this whole (everyone pagan) dynamic is very different. Differences in Masters and all that....
Master is married to ss but then we are all to be hand fasted in the fall. Rare for pagans even. LOL She and I are developing a friendship but not a sexual one. She is just not a sexual creature unlike me. I happily serve master and live for his attention and touch. It surprises me that my ss does not. I have never met a slave that was like that, I think she does want someone to care for her sometimes, then again I have only known her a few months.
I have spoken to her, she states she wants to help and wants me to teach her to clean. So I spent several days doing this. Showing her, yet taking the time to make sure she understood and find out which way was best for her. She just doesn't seem to notice a whole sink full of dirty dishes with ants all over them. I mean how can you miss that, the dust on the tv, sure the dirty toilet or the clutter everywhere yeah I can see how one can miss those, but if you go get a cup and have to wash one would you notice the rest? I guess that's not being fair and some people can. **sigh** I would just think that at 33 and being a slave for others masters, one would know better. I just cant get past the feeling that she is just lazy...and I don't want to be the one to “nag” at her to get stuff done. That makes me Dom to her and that's not where I want to be. We will work it out I am sure...it just seems to be a bit overwhelming right now....I have just moved everything in and things are a bit chaotic right now. Thanks all for listening....:)

BB pamela

< Message edited by teapaw -- 7/8/2005 10:52:31 AM >

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"get a taste of reiligion ...lick a witch"

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Post #: 13

RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/8/2005 11:06:29 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3610
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: teapaw
I have never met a slave that was like that, I think she does want someone to care for her sometimes, then again I have only known her a few months.

Talk to her about it...she's certainly not alone in her predilections. By understanding her perspective you can become closer to her.

quote:

I have spoken to her, she states she wants to help and wants me to teach her to clean. So I spent several days doing this. Showing her, yet taking the time to make sure she understood and find out which way was best for her.

You showed her HOW to clean, that's a VERY different thing from
a) cleaning become a habit
b) noticing something to clean
c) feeling the need to clean something you notice

Ever think she might be a bit sheepish or ashamed because she's not a born housekeeper and you're coming in right off as the cleaning superstar? Maybe she's letting you shine because she thinks it's a way for you to find "your place" in the house.

Next time you clean, recruit! Say "Hey I'm going to do laundry, come help me fold, we can chat about next weeks meals" and things like that. If she responds with a no thanks, accept it and continue asking for a least a few weeks. But DON'T get upset if she says no, which will only decrease her wanting to help next time and DON'T be bossy, let her make an honest effort and if it's not up to your own standards, well just accept it for now.

quote:

She just doesn't seem to notice a whole sink full of dirty dishes with ants all over them. I mean how can you miss that, the dust on the tv, sure the dirty toilet or the clutter everywhere yeah I can see how one can miss those, but if you go get a cup and have to wash one would you notice the rest? I guess that's not being fair and some people can.

Re-read previous posts regarding what neat people see and what not-neat people see.

Not fair for you to get upset because she's happy doing what she's done all her life so far, or fair to expect that all to change in any quickness.

quote:

I would just think that at 33 and being a slave for others masters, one would know better. I just cant get past the feeling that she is just lazy...and I don't want to be the one to “nag” at her to get stuff done.

I'm not a neat person, the last thing I want to do is clean, and I honestly do NOT notice messes around the house. But the last thing I am is lazy. You need to correct that judgemental thinking fast or it will cause serious problems.

Maybe she IS lazy, you live with her, you would know better than I. But just because she's not doing what is important to YOU doesn't make her so. Didn't you mention she works a FT job outside the home and you don't?

Your original post also claims two things:
a) she makes excuses and your dom accepts them
b) your dom makes excuses for her

Maybe neither is excusing anyone and they just don't care like you do so it SEEMS like excuses to you? WHY is it so important for you that they act like you want them to act? WHY is it so important that they have the same priorities and reactions that you do?

quote:

That makes me Dom to her and that's not where I want to be. We will work it out I am sure...it just seems to be a bit overwhelming right now....I have just moved everything in and things are a bit chaotic right now. Thanks all for listening....:)

BB pamela

I think your idea to have your own space is a good one. Are you this doms first "second girl"? I'm surprised he didn't set up your own area/room already. Have a space you can retreat to and feel absolutely at ease in. Overtime you can extend that area outward.

But I think life will be easier if you simply accept them in who they are rather than judging.

(in reply to teapaw)

Post #: 14

RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/8/2005 3:05:01 PM

teapaw

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Joined: 5/5/2005
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My place was supposed to be (per Master and her) to work outisde the home and she care for the house....I have talked to her and it did make us closer...she openly admitted to me she did not want to clean or care if it got done..thats fine with me, her being who she is..I am never bossy, in fact I ask and if she says no, I give her a hug and a kiss and get on about with the cleaning, happily...In fact I normally dont get upset about anything let alone cleaning..... I enjoy it more then most and do it happily...I am just feeling overwelmed....My sons bday was today he would have been six and I am just being WAY over emotional today...it will pass.....

I am my Masters second girl...I wish he would give me my own space...I asked him and he just didnt think it was that important...he felt it would alianate me from them, ie not sleeping together at night....I will continue to ask as time passes....
Thank you for listening...and for the advice...
blessings pamela

_____________________________

"get a taste of reiligion ...lick a witch"

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 15

RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/8/2005 4:33:00 PM

wolfspirits

Posts: 36
Joined: 6/7/2005
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Oh boy! What to do? Well Im Glad you talked to her. And by what you said her reaction was, is a good start. I like the idea of asking her to join you in some task or chore. Altogether Im Thinking that you will probably end up with these chores,if after sometime things dont change you will have to figure for yourself what is important in cleaning and accept that it will be your job. Remember to always think in the way that please your Master and whats important to Him
BB. Lady Silver

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 16

RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/8/2005 5:24:36 PM

teapaw

Posts: 97
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

I have been talking to her all along. I just wasn't getting any results until now...I guess it just takes time...

I wont be able to do the chores once my job starts...Master says she is supposed to....and I am supposed to teach her...I will do my job and hopefully he will take care of the rest...:) He is the most important thing to me.....he loves it when I make an effort to get things done....today is just a rough day and I am feeling a bit overwhelmed...We (master, ss and I) talked about today and why I am upset...things sorted themselves out nicely.....thank you for your time and effort, :)
pamela

_____________________________

"get a taste of reiligion ...lick a witch"

(in reply to wolfspirits)

Post #: 17

RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/12/2005 8:28:48 AM

JerryInTampa

Posts: 71
Joined: 2/19/2004
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quote:

is there always an alpha female in poly relationships?

No.. though "pecking order" is really common. I've managed to avoid politics thusfar in my own poly relationships through communication, but I've seen it happen often enough.

< Message edited by JerryInTampa -- 7/12/2005 5:31:04 PM >

(in reply to teapaw)

Post #: 18

RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/12/2005 4:03:06 PM

AlphaGeek

Posts: 82
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: Charlottesville, VA, but in Orlando for a temp job
Status: offline

Hey teapaw!

In our implementation there is no real "pecking order" as such.. none of that alpha, beta, gamma stuff. I think that's mostly because our household wasn't founded as a BDSM-o-centric entity.

I'll be back at the end of this week (Yaaaay!), so if youd like tom compare notes with gormflaith and I over a bite or a drink, just yell!

AG

(in reply to JerryInTampa)

Post #: 19

RE: is there a always an alpha - 7/12/2005 4:39:08 PM

MsPurrmeow

Posts: 254
Joined: 10/30/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: teapaw
is there always an alpha female in poly relationships?

First off, I need to make this more general. You are specifically speaking about only females and only in a M/s relationship? That I wouldn't know.

As for "Poly relationships", no, there isn't always an alpha person. I think there needs to be a 'leader' of sorts just to make things work, but that person in a M/s/poly relationship is the Master/Owner. There are many happy, long-term poly relationships that have no pecking order or hierarchy.

In Poly terms, many people use "Primary", "Secondary" or "tertiary", to impart some level of hierarchy. In my own, we call it a "multiple primary" situation. Each person has just as much value to the relationship as the other. In my own, we each have our aspects of daily living that we excel at, and others that we don't.

In your current situation, I would suggest making a choice. If you are in this for the Master/slave relationship between you and him, then that is all you need to worry about. He orders, you obey. Regardless of what anyone else in the house does, that is likely the only issue for you. If he orders you to keep the house clean, then do so. Things tend to self-regulate in these situations. If she feels unneeded or guilty, then things will escalate for her, and influence change one way or the other. Ask for her help, but always be just as positive about a "No" answer, and never expect a "Yes" answer. If he is truly the master of the domain, he'll have to deal with her in his own terms at some point. Be who you are and what you are supposed to be, and other things will work themselves out.

It sounds to me like she's got some depression issues going on personally. She may be asking for help simply as a way to get you to focus on her, or for inspiration to do something she abhors. She has no reason to clean that house really, if there is no positive or negative reinforcement involved.

Talk to your Master about being more specific about household duties. Write lists, set up a check system. You haven't mentioned whether he is actively ruling the house or passively ruling it. Ask him to set things a little deeper in stone and make some solid rules for everyone. If he's just being passive and expecting it to get done, then you may have to make other decisions about the situation. Reinforcement is important in changing habits.

Good luck.

(in reply to teapaw)

Post #: 20

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