RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"?

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RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"?

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"?

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RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/17/2005 4:58:52 AM

kisshou

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Joined: 2/11/2005
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If the only 'play'a Master/slave participate with each other in is spanking , and Master/me 'play' with really edgy knife play, where I (slave) could literally die with a slip.

Does this mean the depth of my submission is greater than the Master/slave who only do spanking?

(in reply to SecretDomme)

Post #: 61

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/17/2005 5:11:27 AM

stormsfate

Posts: 846
Joined: 2/1/2005
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In my opinion, kisshou, the answer to your question is yes. Certainly there are depths of submission. Someone who is will to submit completely has a deeper level of submission than someone who has a good number of limits. But deeper doesn't mean better, as long as a person's needs are fulfilled, then it doesn't really matter.

quote:

What if the dominant told the submissive, "Ok, my desire is for you to be the dominant -- now and forever." Will the submissisve do that unconditionally? In how many cases? For how long? Will the submissive feel fulfilled in their new role as dominant, now and forever?

<chuckles> The first part would work, but the forever part would not. If I were to become the dominant as in the above scenario, I would take a page from my owner's book and dance to the beat of my own drum. My submissive certainly would not instruct me on what to do and would have given up the authority by transferring it to me with the first part of his instructions (ie my desire is for you to be the dominant). If the dominant gave me that authority, he would have no say in how long it would be for because that decision would be mine. That being the case...someone would promply find themselves released and I'd follow my nature. You simply can't have it both ways.

best regards,
fate

_____________________________

Storm1206 - Author of my dark desires...Owner of my soul.

stormsvision - chainsister and partner in crime.

(in reply to kisshou)

Post #: 62

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/17/2005 5:13:12 AM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 3240
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Montréal - Canada
Status: offline

In my opinion, absolutely not. An act is not a sign of submission. It is the energy and the relationship dynamics that make it so.

I've been caned and flogged to the point that I almost passed out. I wanted it. That makes me a masochist. There is not a whole lot of submissive matter within me.

- LA

_____________________________

An iron hand in a velvet glove.

(in reply to kisshou)

Post #: 63

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/17/2005 5:42:38 AM

stormsfate

Posts: 846
Joined: 2/1/2005
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LadyA, I see where you are coming from and do agree in part with what you are saying (actually, based on kisshou's post, I agree in the entirety...lol). One can be a masochist without being submissive, as you clearly demonstrated.

I agree that its not the acts that make a submissive, but rather the willingness to do those acts. If you were to take kisshou's post a bit further and say that in the first example, the submissive refused to submit to anything other than spankings and in the second scenario, the submissive wasn't even a masochist, but submitted to his/her dominant's wishes, I believe that would indicate levels of submission.

As kisshou posted it though, I have to change my opinion to agree with you. The acts in and of themselves are not the indicator.

best regards,
fate

*Edited for clarification.

< Message edited by stormsfate -- 6/17/2005 5:43:41 AM >

_____________________________

Storm1206 - Author of my dark desires...Owner of my soul.

stormsvision - chainsister and partner in crime.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 64

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/17/2005 6:34:24 AM

Oumae

Posts: 614
Joined: 1/4/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou

If the only 'play'a Master/slave participate with each other in is spanking , and Master/me 'play' with really edgy knife play, where I (slave) could literally die with a slip.

Does this mean the depth of my submission is greater than the Master/slave who only do spanking?

I have to agree with LadyA and storm..... doing something edgier doesnt equate being more submissive or more Dominant. Its all about the head space and dynamics of the relationship.
To be honest once the people involved are happy its not something I'd be measuring.
Oumae

< Message edited by Oumae -- 6/17/2005 6:36:06 AM >

_____________________________

Is cuma le fear na mbrog ca leagann se a chos.
( The man with the boots does not mind where he places his foot)

(in reply to kisshou)

Post #: 65

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/17/2005 7:01:44 AM

kisshou

Posts: 704
Joined: 2/11/2005
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LadyA,
I am fascinated by your reply it is so interesting. This is hard for me to put into words so please bear with me. Does what you posted mean the person doing the caning is a Sadist and no dominance/submission comes into play at all in what you experienced?
What do you mean by relationship dynamics?

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 66

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/17/2005 7:10:13 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3610
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou

LadyA,
I am fascinated by your reply it is so interesting. This is hard for me to put into words so please bear with me. Does what you posted mean the person doing the caning is a Sadist and no dominance/submission comes into play at all in what you experienced?
What do you mean by relationship dynamics?

Basically it's saying that how hard or intensly someone PLAYS is not an indicator of "how submissive" or "how dominant" a person is.

(in reply to kisshou)

Post #: 67

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/17/2005 7:26:09 AM

cellogrrlMK

Posts: 672
Joined: 3/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

Basically it's saying that how hard or intensly someone PLAYS is not an indicator of "how submissive" or "how dominant" a person is.

So it would also be that whether or not someone has limits or safewords they may or may not use (but has one "just in case") that their expression of their involvement in BDSM is or isn't "better" than someone who has no limits or safewords?

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 68

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/17/2005 7:44:09 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3610
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cellogrrlMK

So it would also be that whether or not someone has limits or safewords they may or may not use (but has one "just in case") that their expression of their involvement in BDSM is or isn't "better" than someone who has no limits or safewords?

Exactly. This is another reason why I speak against making the safe word a "thing" because people misuse it to become some symbol of their relationship or commitment to eachother.

(in reply to cellogrrlMK)

Post #: 69

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/17/2005 8:35:42 AM

cellogrrlMK

Posts: 672
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

Exactly. This is another reason why I speak against making the safe word a "thing" because people misuse it to become some symbol of their relationship or commitment to eachother.

But what if they want to have one, as I said "just in case"? Does that mean that they're not as "real" or that they aren't "true" to the lifestyle? That seems to be the implication in a lot of the posts here.

Mind you, I've only used a safeword once, the very first time we played (not his first time, but mine for sure), I was nervous and didn't realize how I would react to the sensations. But I think to make a blanket statement that if someone has a safeword that is not submission is a bit elitist. We all live this in the way that pleases us... it's the same thing like labelling whether one is a submissive or slave.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 70

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/17/2005 6:47:23 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 3240
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Montréal - Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou

LadyA,
I am fascinated by your reply it is so interesting. This is hard for me to put into words so please bear with me. Does what you posted mean the person doing the caning is a Sadist and no dominance/submission comes into play at all in what you experienced?

What I'm saying is that the primary dynamic is S&M, not D/s. To say there is absolutely no D/s present I think would be false. But who is domming who is questionable... Anyhow, the point is that in a purely S&M dynamic, the degree of pain taken goes to the degree of masochism, not submission.

quote:

What do you mean by relationship dynamics?

Ok, well say there is a D/s relationship in which the heaviest play is a spanking as punishment when the sub does something wrong. Nothing edgier then that. The sub could be completely and totally devoted, more so then a sub that does edgy knife play but in spirit, holds back.

Knife play is an S&M game that can played within the realms of a D/s relationship but doesn't have to be. In fact, many D/s relationship do not include any bondage, S&M or physical discipline. Some are purely mental. That is what I mean by relationship dynamic.

I hope that helped :)

- LA

_____________________________

An iron hand in a velvet glove.

(in reply to kisshou)

Post #: 71

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/17/2005 7:46:51 PM

kisshou

Posts: 704
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline

LadyA,

you rock! Thank you that made alot clear to me ! Thank you so much

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 72

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/17/2005 7:59:04 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 3240
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Montréal - Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou

LadyA,

you rock! Thank you that made alot clear to me ! Thank you so much

My pleasure. :)

- LA

_____________________________

An iron hand in a velvet glove.

(in reply to kisshou)

Post #: 73

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/20/2005 4:57:27 PM

dragonofjapan

Posts: 91
Joined: 6/30/2004
Status: offline

I have never used a safe word. I have never discussed a limit. I have never seen any of what I am doing like I am ordering a sandwich at a deli.

By the time I pick a woman up by her nipples, or turn her over my knee or tie her spread eagled and whip her silly, I know more about her than likely she knows about herself.

I think the whole newbie-experienced is a bit over the top. If you do not have the common sense to know you need to develop some sort of relationship with a person, and you are 'playing' at this like you might tennis, well good luck, hope you have good medical insurance. I would say most people recover from their mistakes and learn in the process.

The few who die, well shit happens, for the serial killer discussion, life is like that and to run your entire life like every person is a potential serial killer is a bit more paranoia than I care to live with.

I find 99% of the people I meet are perfectly nice people and I get along really well with less than 10% of them, but I am not going to die in an evening of being around a person I do not click with.

Now as a dom I allocate a huge part of my brain for monitoring, but then I find the paying attention closely to her squirming, begging, moaning and holding her at the edge where she cries in joy and pain simultaneously, to be big part of what this is all about for me.

Zip

_____________________________

He who rules truly serves
She who serves truly rules

Life is not measured by the breaths we take,
but by the things which take our breath away

Honor is not making good choices,
it is dealing with the consequences.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 74

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/21/2005 5:58:54 AM

MemphisDsCouple

Posts: 146
Joined: 11/1/2004
From: Memphis, TN, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

When you have a safe-word, what part of your brain or mental state do you allocate to determine if you need to use it? Tell me, whatever part/place that is, why isn't that representative of a part of you that you aren't giving, aren't feeling, and are holding back? And if you have a "master" how is it that he rationalizes this part of you that isn't his/hers?

If there were ever straight-on answers to these questions, I missed them.

_____________________________

B. (the male half of MemphisDsCouple)

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 75

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/21/2005 9:34:15 AM

Tempestspet

Posts: 340
Joined: 1/13/2005
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Unless I'm mistaken... mine should have been.... it was I think, the last long answer I gave... and answered in Q&A fashion.... but maybe I am just a bit testy this morning.

If so, sorry

(in reply to MemphisDsCouple)

Post #: 76

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/21/2005 9:35:28 AM

SweetDommes

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Joined: 10/5/2004
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Actually, your answer was quite good and thorough - as was mine (at least, in my opinion both answers were ...)

(in reply to Tempestspet)

Post #: 77

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/21/2005 9:49:24 AM

Tempestspet

Posts: 340
Joined: 1/13/2005
Status: offline

laughs... thank you. And yes it was.

Ok, my lil feelings are better know...whew....grins...

(in reply to SweetDommes)

Post #: 78

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/21/2005 6:09:36 PM

Blk4u2

Posts: 45
Joined: 3/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SecretDomme

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I know in this age of instant gratification you want to meet and jump right into it. Having a check list of activities and agreeing to a safe word makes that happen. It would be better would be to take the time to know and trust a person well enough to not need it but most people don't want to take that time.

People who disagree usually admit ultimately that they have never been with someone they have trusted enough not to have negotiated limits or a safe word. Until you do - I'd argue you'll never know what real submission feel like, or real dominance for that matter.

To me it's just common sense to have some safety built into activities. The other night I was playing with a close sub friend of mine (and, no, we didn't just "jump" into things), and he utilized a safe signal in the middle of an anal scene. It wasn't because I had reached a limit of his, but because he had the sudden urgency to urinate, and he knew if I didn't stop, my bed would be soaked. He was blindfolded and gagged, and I was grateful that he had a way to let me know that something else was happening at the time.

It's interesting that you use that popular word "real" in your statements about "real submission" and "real dominance". Perhaps you should define what constitutes "real". I would also question whether you feel those of use who practice D/s with limits and safe words are somehow less Dominant or submissive because we don't do it just like you.

Be well,
Julie

I have not been at this for long...Having said that I think you should realize that there is no set guideline for everyone to follow in the lifestyle. if there was, then it would be absolutely boring. Freedom and choice to indulge, over or under, is what makes life great.

(in reply to SecretDomme)

Post #: 79

RE: What Part of you is "Monitoring"? - 6/22/2005 9:22:53 AM

ShiftedJewel

Posts: 634
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

If you can't trust someone enough to scene with them without specifics or a safe-word you are just allowing - not submitting. The "dom/me" is in actuality a service provider.

Admittedly I haven't read all of the replies here so please excuse me if I repeat anything. As far as I'm concerned a safe word is like comfort food (ie: chocolate, cookies, that sort of thing), it's comforting but holds little value. I agree that there should be complete trust and communication. I understand the need for new people to "negotiate" before scening with someone the barely know and I agree that it is more of a sensations thing then a form of submitting. But even then, even when you choose to "allow" a dominant/top to service those needs a safe word is still just "comfort food". The issue here is trust. Too many rely on their "safeword" to save them if things get out of hand or they are pushed beyond their limits. Even if just one person finds themselves in a situation where they safeword out but it's ignored and the scene continues that's just one person to many, isn't it? It's just a word or signal, not a magic spell that releases you instantly from your bonds. The issue is trust. Once you are helpless it is all about whether or not the person on the other end of the flogger/whip/paddle can be trusted enough to stick to the game plan.

quote:

I know in this age of instant gratification you want to meet and jump right into it. Having a check list of activities and agreeing to a safe word makes that happen. It would be better would be to take the time to know and trust a person well enough to not need it but most people don't want to take that time.

I completely agree with you Merc... In the long run patience will pay off. I don't like the use of a safe word during a scene, I would rather just have open communcation. If the submissive is having difficulties, whether mental or physical, I would rather them just be able to tell me... none of the guessing game stuff like do they really mean stop or are they in the middle of some rape fantasy? I want to take the time to really know them, to memorize them, inside and out. And yes, that takes time and patience.

And yes, before the whole world jumps on me, I do understand that there has to be some sort of signal that the submissive needs to say something in the event that they are gagged.

Jewel

_____________________________

ShiftedJewel of PhoenixRisen

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 80

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