Sub married to non-dom (Full Version)

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Mia1978 -> Sub married to non-dom (5/10/2005 2:58:54 PM)

I've been married for almost 2 years now, although we've been together for 4. I did not realize how badly I want to be a sub until after we were married. Not only is he uninterested in a sub/dom role, he's kinda grossed out at my interest. When I try to just be a sub to him, he ignores me. I feel aweful. I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm turning this chat room into a marraige counselor, that is not my intent. I guess with all this introduction I am looking for suggestions. Even his fantacies are vanilla and he himself plays fiddle to my compliance, but not my interest. Have any ideas on how to either get him interested, or discipline myself to be more accepting of him ? Outside of this one issue, everything is wonderful.



littleone35 -> RE: Sub married to non-dom (5/10/2005 3:45:16 PM)

Maybe i am not the right preson to answer this and i am not sugest doing h=what i di but i am also married to a vanalla no Dom but i have My Master who is married to a non sub so we furill each outer. Outside of our marriges.

JL's K



BobcatsLilMinx -> RE: Sub married to non-dom (5/10/2005 3:55:59 PM)

I kinda see this as you have several options...

1) is to divorce him in order to seek out what you want (harsh, but it IS an option)
2) is to do as littleone suggests and seek fulfilment outside of the marriage (online or real)
and 3) is to tough it out, honour your vows, and hope maybe one day he'll change, or that you will...

I was in a similar place last year... I wasn't married, just in a long term, committed relationship... I went with option 3 to begin with, eventually tried an online option 2, which led finally to option 1... I do sympathise Mia, but it's not an easy situation, and unless your husband is willing to let you have a Dom outside of the relationship, there's not really an easy choice to make...

As for discipling yourself... well, you could try thinking of him as your Master, and his decision is that you shall not act like a sub. I don't know if you have a need to serve as such, or a need for kink, but if it's the first, thinking of him as your Master and obeying his wishes might help? Be submissive in small ways, treat him like a God, few men will not enjoy that..! And try to derive a satisfaction from just knowing privately that you have submitted to him.

I hope you get some good advice on here... :)
Minx



Lordandmaster -> RE: Sub married to non-dom (5/10/2005 5:54:17 PM)

Those are indeed the options, very intelligently laid out.

My view:

No. 3 isn't going to work unless you are ethically opposed to divorce. People don't change in this respect: you are always going to be submissive, and he is always going to be vanilla. I'd hold out some hope if you hadn't already discussed this with him, but if you have, that's that.

So I think you're left with No. 1 and No. 2. No. 2 is not a great long-term option unless you are honest with your husband, and even then it doesn't always work out (although it can). If you're NOT honest with him, No. 2 could end with someone's death. It happens.

By process of elimination, then, I think No. 1 is your most likely option. I'm sorry to sound harsh, but I've been through all of this, and I'm not the type to make a situation seem better than it really is.

Lam

quote:

ORIGINAL: BobcatsLilMinx

I kinda see this as you have several options...

1) is to divorce him in order to seek out what you want (harsh, but it IS an option)
2) is to do as littleone suggests and seek fulfilment outside of the marriage (online or real)
and 3) is to tough it out, honour your vows, and hope maybe one day he'll change, or that you will...



perverseangelic -> RE: Sub married to non-dom (5/10/2005 6:46:55 PM)

I'd say there are 2 applications of 2 also.

a. cheat on your partner
b. discuss an open/semi-open relationship with your partner



ginger21 -> RE: Sub married to non-dom (5/10/2005 8:40:02 PM)

I have a friend that is a sub and her husband is totally vanilla. He doesn't mind that she goes out to find a Dom and she discloses everything fully to him. Would your husband be outraged if you were to discuss doing that?



Ellipsis -> RE: Sub married to non-dom (5/11/2005 12:42:37 AM)

I was in the same sort of situation (but not married; long-term relationship). I ended up leaving my boyfriend. He was a very submissive sort which just left me feeling unfulfilled in the long run.

Live and learn. I'll know better to not date subby guys in the future.




Mia1978 -> RE: Sub married to non-dom (5/11/2005 8:16:46 AM)

Well, you all make excellent points. I have considered all 3 of BobcatsLilMinx points (so eloquent!), and their consequences... I'm left with quite the dilema. Lordandmaster, I appreciate your bluntness. I have tested the waters with him and suggested a trio to please him and he would not hear of it. So, an honest & open relationship is out, or at least it is at this time. We have talked about infidelity and his only response is divorce. So there's that. I'm not ethically opposed to divorce, although I am trying to avoid it. Death for anyone would certainly not be not an option. lol

I would like to be his sub in small ways that make him feel like a god without throwing the lifestyle in his face. I am not sure how to do this though. I've done the things I know how to do (keep a spotless house, have his dinner hot on the table, always have myself prepared for him...). Haha, but those are more of a 50's housewife than a sub (or is it?) and they don't illicit the response I'm looking for (all he gives back is a 'thank you, this is nice' - and that's it, and he still doesn't take me). I have asked him if there are any things I can do to make him happier, or if there are things I do that displease him, and he always replies that he is "perfectly happy". (most women would kill for this - what's wrong with me?!?!) I do feel un-fulfilled. I'm trying to find ways where I know if I do this, then he will provide that.

Part of me really thinks if I find the right ways of being a sub to him that he will become adicted despite his mind-set. That has happened in other areas of our relationship, so the hope exists. What suggesions do you have on that? How can I be a good subtle sub? There must be something I can do besides be the perfect housewife. I think I have just have not found his hot button yet.



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Sub married to non-dom (5/11/2005 8:48:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mia1978
Haha, but those are more of a 50's housewife than a sub (or is it?) and they don't illicit the response I'm looking for (all he gives back is a 'thank you, this is nice' - and that's it, and he still doesn't take me).

I understand both your desire and frustration here, but why would having a spotless house make a man more inclined to ravish you sexually? That's awesome that you want to serve, but I can't see any situation where seeing a clean floor would get a guy hard unless he had a fetish for it.

How is your sex life generally? Do you have it regularly? Is it fun? I understand you have submissive frustrations and all, but beyond that, is it good?
quote:


I have asked him if there are any things I can do to make him happier, or if there are things I do that displease him, and he always replies that he is "perfectly happy". (most women would kill for this - what's wrong with me?!?!) I do feel un-fulfilled. I'm trying to find ways where I know if I do this, then he will provide that.

Nice idea, will likely fail. He IS happy. Why would he change what's going on if he is happy? You have tried to communicate your desires to him, I would suggest you try again, in various ways, either by playing sex games together, watching porn together, reading stories together, and just talking about it over dinner. What do you have to lose?

quote:

What suggesions do you have on that? How can I be a good subtle sub? There must be something I can do besides be the perfect housewife. I think I have just have not found his hot button yet.[/color]


Possible, but just as possible is that you're pushing all his hot buttons, and, guess what, he is happy!





BobcatsLilMinx -> RE: Sub married to non-dom (5/11/2005 9:07:27 AM)

quote:

I would like to be his sub in small ways that make him feel like a god without throwing the lifestyle in his face. I am not sure how to do this though. I've done the things I know how to do (keep a spotless house, have his dinner hot on the table, always have myself prepared for him...). Haha, but those are more of a 50's housewife than a sub (or is it?)


*grins* what's wrong with being a 1950's housewife??? I'd KILL to live in that time! (Well probably not actually kill....)
Sadly, with a vanilla man, Stepford housewife is the closest thing there is to submission. As I said, having been there, I really do sympathise...

Well, start siting on the floor from time to time. When you're watching tv, try sitting (not kneeling) on the floor beside him, and rest your head to his thigh. If he asks what you're doing.... try telling him you're reading up about the Alexandra (Alexander?) technique of posture and wellbeing, etc, and that sitting on the floor is allegedly better for your spine. This is a nice submissive position, makes you feel "beneath" him, hopefully without making him feel uncomfortable.

Learn Stepford housewifey-mum things. Learn to sew, to knit, to cross stitch. I found a lot of satisfaction getting really in touch with my feminine arty-crafty side. Bake fresh bread for him, bake pies, cakes, all men love food.

There's the servitude out the way; now for the sex.

Instead of having his meal ready the second he walks in, try putting it in (on slow) once he gets home. Sit him down, rub his feet for him, ask him how his back and shoulders are, would he like them rubbed too...? Invest in some really nice massage oils, or body lotions, and get one of those aromatherapy books that tells you which is good for enhancing the libido.. *winks* Push it a little bit, if he goes, "I'm fine, honey", do it anyway! unless he'll get cranky about it, then there's nothing you can do...

And take to wearing extremely little around the house. Think, brief silk nightdresses, kimonos. Have your make up done and be looking fabulous and sexy. If he questions, just tell him you spent the day pampering yourself.... would he like some pampering too...?

These are all things I did... and they did help. Feel free to message me if you want to chat, Mia... but I hope this will help you.

Take care of yourself,
Minx



drb -> RE: Sub married to non-dom (5/22/2005 9:29:36 AM)

Mia, your journey through BDSM may take longer and have many more twists and turns than somebody unattached. Take a path that best suits your needs and remember there are no wrong decisions, just weaving through the many different directions we choose to take.



proudsub -> RE: Sub married to non-dom (5/22/2005 10:28:34 PM)

Here are a just a few of the previous threads that you might find helpful.


vanilla partners

married

ethical issues

cheating

married?, married!..

married subs








Appurtenant -> RE: Sub married to non-dom (5/25/2005 8:15:50 PM)

Hello Mia-

I'm right there with little one - I've been married quite a bit longer than you - 15 yrs - and with a child involved and no other major issues I don't feel that divorce is appropriate for me - and, there seems to be a number of Dom's in their own vanilla relationships with similar issues. You may find just the right one to make it all work.

Of course, this isn't the proper road for everyone, just seems to be the best one for me.

Good Luck![:D]



Aussiedogg -> RE: Sub married to non-dom (5/28/2005 3:07:52 AM)

What you could do is reverse roles, whereas you start doing little domineering things towards him thing is you cant back down once you start.

What will happen you ask? Two things, he will become annoyed at your treatment and at least you will get his attention or which he has had enough he will fight to get his power back...if if he didnt have a understanding of it before.

Regardless to what you ladies think...the best Dom's often times have been sub themselves..that is how some learn the ropes![8|]



subbiejenn -> RE: Sub married to non-dom (5/28/2005 8:29:32 AM)

Hi Mia

i haven't read all of the post back to this (have work soon!) but i was in this situation not long ago. I was married 14 years and found my sub desires about 5 years ago. My relationship was a little different because my marriage wasn't great at the time. We ended up separating but trying to work on things where we could get back together. He had his issues he needed from me but mine were i needed him to Dom me. He read everything i sent him and tried but all He seen was the sexual side to it and not the mental side so i still wasn't getting what i needed. Being a Dom isn't something you can learn is my point even if your husband tried to LEARN to please you unless he has it in him it wont work. Letting you kneel beside him, calling Him Sir and even tieing you up isn't what being a sub is about. It is the Mental and unless he understands how to mentally Dominate you and give you them submissive feelings you will never be fulfilled. At least this is true for me, i like very Dominate Men... My EX is Dominate in a lot of ways but He isn't or will ever be a DOM!

For me FEELING submissive is what drives my desires i don't know if this is true for you also. A good Dom has a look that will make you drop to your knees, makes you feel submissive to him and puts you in that wonderful subspace we all love. These things the Dom has to understand and thrive on the power over us.

this is JMO and how i see things. I tried very hard to keep my marriage together but i seen being a DOM isn't learned, it is something they have to want and feel mentally. The sexual side to BDSM is easy to learn but to get the feelings we want from them is a lot harder.

I think you need to decide if you can live with not being a sub and not having the satisfaction from serving in that way. Maybe you can serve in other ways and be satisfied but only you can decide that.

~hugs~ best of luck!
~jenn



sanita -> RE: Sub married to non-dom (5/28/2005 9:31:48 AM)

i would not suggest trying to make him dominate you against his own wishes. that is kind of like tricking a guy into marrying you, is it not? personally, i cannot imagine being satisfied with a Dom i had to subversively "trap" into dominating me. but it is a very fine line, isn't it?

Honestly, i like Minx's idea of just making yourself comfortable, like sitting on the floor with your head on his knee. going all out to provide pleasure for him, behaving in a more sensual way, to see if he responds to it.

if you can talk openly and frankly with him, you may consider asking him to read the 9 levels of submission, and see if there is one he would be willing to accomodate. maybe ask him which one he would fit to you. also, i know that it is kind of an odd thought, but asking him to compromise a little, for your needs is not a bad thing.

as far as physical submission: you say have a good marriage. if you don't want to go outside the marriage, and you want to stay married... ask nicely if on your birthday or certain special occasions, you can have it your way. if you offer some ideas, and give him the opportunity to read a little bit, or research online, he may actually come up with some ideas of his own, and find he enjoys it. but you have to be honest with him that this is the compromise. if it does not grow into full out D/s rather than vanilla with some power play, he gets credit for trying, and you get to have some domination when you really need it.

also, you could make a bet with him. if you win, you get to be dommed for a week. if you lose, he gets to chose a prize. i would suggest that you negotiate before betting, though, so the prize is not "you never bring this up again."

as far as mental submission: if the passion is in your marriage on any positive level, then it is possible to inspire one another. hot and yummy vanilla sex can be very satisfying, and if you find ways to make his eyes flash while having hot and yummy vanilla sex, then maybe you can find some joy in his pleasure.

take my suggestions with a grain of salt, because i have not been in this situation since i discovered my submission. i have, however, been in a relationship with a Dom that made very little effort to meet my needs as a sub. He took care of me in some ways, and loved me, but there was a sense of neglect.

one other thing. if it is the BDSM you need, and maybe not so sexual, and if you have any bi-curious tendencies, maybe your husband would not be opposed to you going outside the marriage to submit, if it is a Mistress. he might see that as less of a threat to his marriage. of course, things can be just as sexual with the same gender, as with the opposite gender, but if you are extremely straight, then maybe he would understand that it is not the sex.

_________

i was telling Master about this on the phone, and He does not completely agree with me. He is pretty much of the same mind-set as LordnMaster. He did agree that maybe your husband would respond and expand a bit, if he had information. if he hasn't already tried... then maybe all he needs to do is try.

anyway, good luck to you.



Mia1978 -> RE: Sub married to non-dom (6/2/2005 1:55:27 PM)

I appreciate the follow-ups that have been put on here. Many of you make excellent points, some points I disagree with - but I still learn from them as I know my perspective is not the only reality out there, so thank you !!!!

I really liked Minx's ideas too. I tried them and he noticed :) Trying to "awaken" his dom side (as I call it) has been a worth while road, so far. At the very least we are learning more about each other, and ourselves than we ever knew before. I am 100% for compramise and that is what he and I are striving for right now. He has agreed to step things up and he is finding himself quite surprised at how much fun he's having with tying me up. :) :) I'm not sure how to bring about the mental side of it (the part I crave the most I think). I will copy and paste him some of your comments, we are learning together - with all your help :)



By the way, does anyone know what happened to Minx? I didn't know she sent me an email (it went to bulk). I saw it yesterday, but it says her account has been closed. I feel horrible for not responding to her - she really knew what she was talking about! :) Anyone know what happened to her?



LASub4Real -> RE: Sub married to non-dom (6/2/2005 10:31:31 PM)

Hello Mia:

May I say, --given the options and opinions given thus far-- that there is hope for you. I believe that to some degree all relationships are built on a kernel of domination and submission. You will notice that even in vanilla relationships you can usually detect a more dominant partner and a more submissive one. If this were not true, if BDSM was not based on something very human that exists at some level in all romantic/sexual relationships, I doubt if it would work in any relationship. What you see in BDSM (the Lifestyle) is an exageration, a concentration, a development, of a natural tendency present in all relationships.

Therefore, unless your husband is decidedly submissive, he probably is "relationally dominant" to some degree. I doubt if you would have been drawn to a submissive man since you seem to have found a decided need to be dominated. I'm sure that your subconcious would have been aware of this before the rest of your brain was. Therefore, regardless of how things appear at present, you might be closer to your goal than you think.

The problem may be that when you express your needs, what you are saying and what he is understanding may be two different scenarios. Not everbody can see themselves putting on a pair of leather chaps and vest, tying his wife to a tree and going at her with a bullwhip! Especially not at first. So if you can slowly show your husband how sexy this can be without necessarily using the "Leather label" it will probably work better. Entice him first in the little things, respond vocally and positively to anything even slightly dominant and give him the gift of your spirit of submission without forcing upon him the responsibility of a slave master. S&M is not a DNA issue, it's an idea that most people respond to on some level even if they reject the kinky leather label.

Be patient. You didn't develop your interest in a single day. Lots of people respond negatively at first and don't have any idea what REAL BDSM really is. It takes time to make any journey, and he deserves a chance to grow into the idea just like you did.

good luck,

lasub4real



woodsbunny -> RE: Sub married to non-dom (6/4/2005 8:52:12 PM)

I'm a switch with a vanilla partner. We've had a tremendously satisfying relationship for over 25 years but . . .

It's the but that is the kicker. There are factors in the relationship that are not those mentioned in the other posts. She was physically abused by an earlier lover and is also a rape survior. Any discussion of bdsm that becomes too specific really disturbs her (she would never be a slave or master). We are both in our 50s, menopause has not been kind to her and that has changed our sex life (I think, in spite of that, most would still envy me).

We do talk, we laugh together and we have an open relationship. I've never stepped outside of the relationship; it would take an exceptional person for me to consider doing so.

Periodically we have all day sex days (we take off from work and have a play day) and on the last she introduced a twist. Each of us wrote what we wanted to do on index cards (obviously, there were limits). Each card got a separate act or scene. We each got eight cards. When we were done the cards were shuffled together and eleven were selected. Numbers from two to twelve were written on the cards. Dice were thrown and after six cards were "chosen," we arranged the cards (some of hers, some of mine) into a scenario. It was vanilla sex but very hot vanilla sex. This might be a way to introduce desired activities into a relationship. Plus -- kids, work, stuff intrudes into a couple's time together and that's awful. Take time to be with each other. Life is too short.

I'm not sure this answers anyone's question. Perhaps all I've done is to help show how complex relationships can be.



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