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freelance columnist trashes campus BDSM club


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freelance columnist trashes campus BDSM club - 8/8/2004 7:47:25 PM   
compes


Posts: 90
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		American Daily is a conservative site that acts sort of like a newspaper. My Google news clipping service triggers on "BDSM" and sent me the link to the story When Evil Becomes Good, a story by a Christian writer who writes (in a horrified way) about officially sanctioned BDSM groups on campus. He mentions Cuffs, a sanctioned group out of the University of Iowa.

I'm not sure what horrifies this guy more, "sick people", the disingenuous connection he makes between a student organization and a "Taxpayer funded" university, or his belief that engaging in a BDSM (or Gay) lifestyle is merely the beginning of a slippery slope leading to pedophilia, incest, bestiality or necrophilia. (Geeze, and this guy calls US sick?)

Oh - for the curious, funding for Cuffs comes from Cuffs members, and from the UI Government of the Student Body, which is funded by the students of UI, not taxpayers. The rational thought club that I formed at my college alma mater was also funded by the student government. No taxpayer dollars needed, thank you.

Compes
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: freelance columnist trashes campus BDSM club - 8/8/2004 11:33:02 PM   
Estring


Posts: 1266
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I don't want any of my taxes going to a bdsm club on any campus. Or any club for that matter. Otherwise I don't have a problem with it. And I don't have a problem with a campus newspaper coming out against it either. Free speech still applies even for people I disagree with.

(in reply to compes)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: freelance columnist trashes campus BDSM club - 8/9/2004 11:44:07 AM   
slavekal


Posts: 14
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Good point. If extracurricular clubs and social groups are not tax payer funded, then nobody has a right to protest or complain.

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: freelance columnist trashes campus BDSM club - 8/9/2004 12:33:00 PM   
afmvdp


Posts: 492
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline 		Actually no. They have every right to complain or protest all that they'd like just as the group has the right to do as they please. I agree though that I don't want my tax dollars going to fund a bdsm group or any other specialist group for that matter I don't care if it's Cuffs or the FCA. They can do their own bake sales together actually, save on the costs of renting the crucifix.

(in reply to slavekal)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: freelance columnist trashes campus BDSM club - 8/9/2004 10:29:05 PM   
CuriousPuppy


Posts: 51
Joined: 6/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: afmvdp
They can do their own bake sales together actually, save on the costs of renting the crucifix.


I had to read that a couple times before I got it... sooo wrong but incredibly funny :)

(in reply to afmvdp)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: freelance columnist trashes campus BDSM club - 8/12/2004 6:18:40 PM   
LadyShoshin


Posts: 480
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline 		My 90 year old mother is a raging Born Again Christian who is certain if I just come back to Jesus all will be well. mmmmmmmm lets see... I have a huge community of friends, some of whom have helped me out in some real difficult times, I go out to dinners and lunches with these friends, I go to parties with these friends. Several of these friends check in with me via IM, email or phone frequently. We have outings to fun places like Ren Faires. My born again Christian mom has one friend, the lady who lives above her, my sister, who is also a raging born again also has one friend. She now has several online friends in Christian chat rooms, of which my mother is extremely jealous.
HMmmmmmmmmmmmmm, think I will continue my BDSM/Shamanic/Wiccan lifestyle. Fortunately my mom doesn't know about the BDSM or Wiccan part and she doesn't understand the term shamanic.

Annnnywho..... if a club can raise its own funds and is not promoting illegal activity, go for it. If some foaming at the mouth right wing Christian fundamentalist wants to bash the club in the school newspaper, go for it. Acting careers have been built on the idea that bad publicity is better than no publicity. The result of the article will probably be that people with BDSM curiosity who didn't know the club existed will now seek them out.
The people who thought the club was sinful will continue to think so, those who want to know more now have a direction to look. WinWin all round

_____________________________

PHLOX: “It’s unethical for a doctor to cause harm...I can inflict as much pain as I like.”

(in reply to compes)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: freelance columnist trashes campus BDSM club - 8/12/2004 7:15:11 PM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2245
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline 		...wow that article is vitriolic.

I'd prefer my tax money didn't go to extra-curricular activities either, as that would mean more money toward actual academic programs, however I -do- want my money to go to my university and other's like it. My Universities governing bodies have decided that they will give money to student organizations. They made this decition, whether I support it or not. I can vote for who gets into office, but once they're there we (the students) get very little say.

Since this is the case, I'd rather all kinds of groups are given funding. I know money will go to mainstream religious organizations. It gratifies me to see that this school (which may or may not be run like mine) also funds groups for people that are generally marginalized by "mainstream" society.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to LadyShoshin)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: freelance columnist trashes campus BDSM club - 8/12/2004 8:44:31 PM   
compes


Posts: 90
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyShoshin

My 90 year old mother is a raging Born Again Christian who is certain if I just come back to Jesus all will be well.



I was raised Christian, and went from fairly liberal to mostly conservative over a period of years. And then due to a lot of reasons, I decided that Christianity was not for me. I 'deconverted' about 8 years ago and am now Atheist.

My father, who is extremely religious and conservative - has no idea of my lack of religion. He lives in another state so it rarely comes up. When I visit, I go to church with him to keep the secret.

I wouldn't tell him about my lack of religion, (or about BDSM) he's old, and I love him. It would worry him needlessly, and might even make his life uncomfortable.


You're Wiccan? I like Wiccans. Never had one knock on my door way too early on a weekend morning just to tell me that I'm hellbound.


College is supposed to be mind expanding - I think it's a good thing for many different types of groups to be on campus; religious, rational, irrational, and weird. If you can't handle dealing with someone who has a different philosophy then you won't be able to effectively deal with the rest of life.

I agree that my taxes shouldn't cover any of these groups. But since the money doesn't come from taxes then I'm not concerned.

Having tuition, or student fees cover these groups is just the price of having your mind expanded. If a student doesn't like it, he has choices - there are other schools. Or the student can join the student government of his school and work to change things.

I just found this writer's hateful spewing of bad logic and insinuation to be a cross between amusing and frightening.

Compes

(in reply to LadyShoshin)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: freelance columnist trashes campus BDSM club - 8/13/2004 12:31:21 AM   
Estring


Posts: 1266
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I do find it funny that you would think college is mind expanding. College campuses are some of the most close minded places on Earth.

(in reply to compes)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: freelance columnist trashes campus BDSM club - 8/13/2004 10:40:50 AM   
darchart


Posts: 35
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		I wouldnt want my tax dollars to fund anything but academics either.
Not if it was a BDSM group or a Christian group or a chess club. Clubs can raise their own money.

That being said, I do think that people have every right to voice their opinions whether I agree or not with those opinions. I truely hated when living in the south to see certain groups gathered in the park citing thier propaganda about racial views. As much as I hated their views, I would stand up and scream for thier right to spew them. Not because I believe for one moment that any race is inferior or superior, but because I do believe everyone should have the right to voice their own opinion as long as it isnt done to incite or to evoke physical harm to others.

Just My Opinion..

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: freelance columnist trashes campus BDSM club - 8/13/2004 11:13:49 AM   
LadyShoshin


Posts: 480
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: compes

You're Wiccan? I like Wiccans. Never had one knock on my door way too early on a weekend morning just to tell me that I'm hellbound.


Compes

I am a Shamanic Wiccan, I don't knock on doors, hand out leaflets or call at dinnertime to sell you something you don't need. I don't try to convert anyone or tell them my way is the only way.
I was leery of becoming Wiccan because of bad experiences in the past with "fundy" Wiccans. The coven wanted me because I was leery, I wasn't frantic to be Wiccan so I could turn everyone I have a grudge against into a toad. Apparently that whole being able to turn assholes into something nasty is a myth (dammit). I know a Dom/me or two that would make a great toad or burro.

Oh yes, and no government funds for the coven, we have to raise our own funds and share what we have.

< Message edited by LadyShoshin -- 8/13/2004 11:16:15 AM >

_____________________________

PHLOX: “It’s unethical for a doctor to cause harm...I can inflict as much pain as I like.”

(in reply to compes)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: freelance columnist trashes campus BDSM club - 8/13/2004 11:41:14 AM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2245
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyShoshin

I was leery of becoming Wiccan because of bad experiences in the past with "fundy" Wiccans. The coven wanted me because I was leery, I wasn't frantic to be Wiccan so I could turn everyone I have a grudge against into a toad. Apparently that whole being able to turn assholes into something nasty is a myth (dammit). I know a Dom/me or two that would make a great toad or burro.


I don't call myself a wiccan for exactly that reason. I subscribe to most of the tenets of wicca, but can't quite bring myself to ascribe to any (even semi-) organized religion. That's one of the things that drove me from Christianity.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to LadyShoshin)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: freelance columnist trashes campus BDSM club - 8/13/2004 11:59:57 AM   
LadyShoshin


Posts: 480
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic
I don't call myself a wiccan for exactly that reason. I subscribe to most of the tenets of wicca, but can't quite bring myself to ascribe to any (even semi-) organized religion. That's one of the things that drove me from Christianity.

What drove me away from Christianity after 14 adult years as a rampant born again was the attitude of the people I met. I tried years of dutifully attending the same church, tried different churches, counselled at revival meetings and did sign language interpretation at huge conventions. Without exception, I was accepted because of who my parents were(evangalists), but was subjected to patronizing behaviour, suspicion and isolation. What drew me to Wicca & BDSM was the people. The folk in the Wiccan coven were my friends long before they invited me to visit their coven. Through consistency, integrity and respecting those I met in the BDSM lifestyle, I am accepted by the majority of the people I meet. I have a wide circle of friends and support, something I never found in any church. I have met Christian BDSMers and have made friends with them, they don't push their beliefs on me & I give them the same respect.

But damn I would still like to turn 2 exbosses into toads *lol*

< Message edited by LadyShoshin -- 8/13/2004 12:01:27 PM >

_____________________________

PHLOX: “It’s unethical for a doctor to cause harm...I can inflict as much pain as I like.”

(in reply to perverseangelic)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: freelance columnist trashes campus BDSM club - 8/13/2004 7:48:54 PM   
compes


Posts: 90
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyShoshin
Apparently that whole being able to turn assholes into something nasty is a myth (dammit).


Tell me if anyone ever figures out how to do that - I'll get religion!

Compes

(in reply to LadyShoshin)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: freelance columnist trashes campus BDSM club - 8/13/2004 10:37:44 PM   
Thanatosian


Posts: 688
Joined: 5/10/2004
From: New Castle, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: compes

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyShoshin
Apparently that whole being able to turn assholes into something nasty is a myth (dammit).


Tell me if anyone ever figures out how to do that - I'll get religion!

Compes


not really a myth, just cannot be done in an instant - all you have to do to turn an asshole into something nasty is end their life - and then either wait for natural decomposition to set in, or hasten said decomposition with something like lye, submersion in warm water, etc. - they will be quite nasty within oh anywhere from 2 to 7 months

(please note the previous was meant entirely tongue in cheek, smartalecky, sarcastically - I am NOT advocating actually killing someone - besides, I feel most assholes are already something nasty - maybe not physically, but mentally and emotionally yeah)

_____________________________

Apply Usual Caveats Here

An expert is somone who has made all the mistakes there are to be made

(in reply to compes)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: freelance columnist trashes campus BDSM club - 8/15/2004 7:10:35 AM   
RoughstringRider


Posts: 9
Joined: 2/11/2004
Status: offline 		*muttering over the entire thread*

Couple points about this I think need to be made, from My perspective.

I have absolutely no intention of trying to force My Fundamentalist, Calvinist version of Christianity on anyone...... I'm just highly annoyed the holier than thou hypocrites drive so many away.... The whole principle of the faith is loving and accepting everyone as flawed humans, and then you get people claiming the faith, who trash everything they claim to believe, with their actions.... For all of y'all pushed away from Christianity by the jerks, I just want to apologize... y'all deserved better.

As to the other point of the thread? I attended Colorado State University, and was exposed to many, many different viewpoints..... Was called a murderer by PETA activists, because of that whole "bonking cows for meat", thing.... villified by Green party members, for driving a gas guzzling pickup.... sneered at by the Young Democrats, for being a Republican... And of course, let's not forget the day in My Mythology class, when I had to inform the professor I did not have to, and was not going to listen to My faith be trashed by a Wiccan.... unless she wanted Me to start trashing hers.....

Amazingly enough, the PETA people, Green Party, and Young Democrats were all being supported by My student Fees.... And I would have been more aggravated, except the Rodeo Club, Young Republicans, and FCA, were also being supported by those fees.

Those fees are in place for a reason, to give students different outlets to explore themselves.... Obviously I don't agree with all the groups, others don't agree with groups I would join.... but the only people paying to support those groups, are the students.... to the tune of $180.00 a semester, at Colorado State, in 1997.....

Anyone who is going to say that ANY of those groups have no right to exist.... is VERY faulty in their reasoning as to the purpose of a college education....

At least that's how it looks out here by the Stock tank.....

~RR~

(in reply to compes)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: freelance columnist trashes campus BDSM club - 8/16/2004 6:17:22 PM   
compes


Posts: 90
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		RoughstringRider - just a couple of things...

I didn't mean for this thread to go in the direction of religion - I apologize if I have 'pushed' my convictions.

While I appreciate your sentiment, I don't think it is necessary for you to apologize for people you have no control over. Your post gives me no indication that you are in the same class as 'jerks'.

It sounds as if we are in agreement in the subject of campus groups.

Also - I'm really interested in your handle - do you work on a ranch? I did that while growing up, a month every summer, and two weeks every winter vacation, until I was 22. I miss that.

Compes

(Apartment pet restriction - no horses! Dang!)

(in reply to RoughstringRider)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: freelance columnist trashes campus BDSM club - 8/17/2004 5:19:56 AM   
LadyShoshin


Posts: 480
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline 		You have nothing to apologize for, there are Christians like you that I can be friends with, you had nothing to do with the hypocrites I ran into, or the Spanish Inquisition. The Wiccan who came to your class was not following the important part of the Wiccan Rede "...and as it harm none, do as thou wilt shall be the whole law", by trashing Christianity, she was harming people like you. It was people like her that made me NOT want to be a Wiccan and the people I got to know in the coven I belong to that showed me not all Wiccans are "holier than thou" and no better than the bigots they trashed.

Special interest groups, be it Christian, Wiccan, chess club or BDSM should not get tax payers dollars to survive, if the interest is there, the groups should be self supporting. In the real world, our munches and parties don't get tax payer dollars, they are self supporting, and when the interest is gone, the event closes. School is supposed to prepare students for the real world, I don't believe it does, but that is another off topic rant I won't go into.

_____________________________

PHLOX: “It’s unethical for a doctor to cause harm...I can inflict as much pain as I like.”

(in reply to RoughstringRider)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: freelance columnist trashes campus BDSM club - 8/18/2004 4:41:32 AM   
RoughstringRider


Posts: 9
Joined: 2/11/2004
Status: offline 		compes, I grew up riding ponies, and have chased a few cows for a living... and wrangled at a Dude Ranch, and rodeoed pro (saddle broncs and barebacks) as well.... And still chase cows a couple times a year, for a very close friend of the family. I work spring and fall gather, and brandings, and I get to eat homegrown beef, and sleep better than anywhere else for a few days... a fair trade, if you ask Me... *grin*
And yup, I've always been the guy assigned to the Roughstring.... *laughing* Besides, when looked at with an appropriately warped mind, it sounds vaguely sexual, in a kinky sort of way!

Lady Shosin, actually, the point you made about being self supporting is, after a fashion, in place on campus. The money given to each organization by the Student Senate each year was based on such factors as ability to grovel, and how much the senate members identified with the purposes of the group, but the overriding factor that guaranteed money, was the level of participation each group could claim. Hence, PETA got money because they groveled well, and enough members of the senate were big on freeing the cows from the evil oppressor cowboys.... The Rodeo Club got money, because there were over 100 members on the club..... And the voting bloc was big enough to attract attention for the members of the Senate wanting to be reelected... *grin* Real world lessons being learned all over the place....

~RR~

(in reply to compes)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: freelance columnist trashes campus BDSM club - 8/18/2004 6:15:30 PM   
compes


Posts: 90
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		"Evil oppressor cowboys!"

Never had a problem with good beef - no matter if it was so fresh that it was hard to catch.

My cousin (his father owned the ranch) had a problem with eating anything with a name. So me and his brother and father helped him get over it by naming any cattle we could get to.

I didn't spend quite enough time on the ranch to become more than a dude cowboy. Or as my uncle called me, a "Rexall Ranger." Still I miss it.

Compes

(in reply to RoughstringRider)
Profile   Post #: 20
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