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Where do we fit? - 10/7/2005 6:30:27 PM

Evanesce

Posts: 633
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

I've often wondered why I have such a hard time finding my "place" within the BDSM community. Specific individuals accept me for who I am, but on the whole, I don't really fit well.

Dominants... especially male dominants... either don't accept me as a dominant or they are intimidated by me. I have little to nothing in common with female submissives, and don't really understand the way they think (well, the women around here, anyway... too much drama for me!). They're also intimidated by me... several have even told me so! So they come to our home when we have parties, but the invitation is almost never reciprocated, and sometimes that hurts... when I know folks are getting together and I'm not invited.

Does anyone else find themselves "on the outside," for lack of a better term? How do you handle it?

_____________________________

Denise
the Kaptin's wench

Post #: 1

RE: Where do we fit? - 10/7/2005 8:12:17 PM

MisterReb

Posts: 6
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline

Welcome to the "Switch Club" I am also a bit switchy and have suffered the same type of treatment. But I am who I am and I feel there is a place for all interests in this Lifestyle. I enjoy both sides of the equation. It is important to me to experience and enjoy both. My Dom side stimulates me intellectually and my bottom side is just fun and relaxation. I believe in the old theory that being a bottom from time to time makes you a better Dom. If we believe what we read on sites like this, then we would be somehow wrong or damaged. I think nothing is further from the truth. For everyone who has criticized me, I have had others who applaud. Go figure. If you are happy with where you are then you are in the right place and fit just fine....enjoy.

(in reply to Evanesce)

Post #: 2

RE: Where do we fit? - 10/8/2005 7:39:40 AM

Saint

Posts: 51
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce

I've often wondered why I have such a hard time finding my "place" within the BDSM community. Specific individuals accept me for who I am, but on the whole, I don't really fit well.

Dominants... especially male dominants... either don't accept me as a dominant or they are intimidated by me. I have little to nothing in common with female submissives, and don't really understand the way they think (well, the women around here, anyway... too much drama for me!). They're also intimidated by me... several have even told me so! So they come to our home when we have parties, but the invitation is almost never reciprocated, and sometimes that hurts... when I know folks are getting together and I'm not invited.

Does anyone else find themselves "on the outside," for lack of a better term? How do you handle it?

I generally feel the same way about myself. Often I find that while individuals may know me and accept me as a person, the general community at large doesnt really accept or know what to make of me. *shrug* Their loss, as friendship is built on understanding. Ive done my damndest to make sure that I know a lot of people in the mid-michigan area, and as a whole now, unless I travel outside of those places to where Im not really known, I dont find myself ostracized so much anymore.

When it comes to male Dominants, the majority of them for some unknowable reason, decide to try to 'convince' me that I should be only dominant. Ive had many, many long discussions with them and thats just how they feel. All you can do is smile, nod your head and pretend like you relate to how their thinking, and move on. With Dommes, a lot of them are fascinated by me being a switch. I have some wonderful Domme friends, and I know some Dommes also who wont even talk to me. Im not sure exactly why they are fascinated, but Ive come to an opinion that its because I dont fit the stereotypical image of either a Dominant male or submissive male. We switches are what we are and thats not easy exactly to define.

I do feel at times that I am an outsider, and thats okay though. Ive learned to overcome it by self-confidence and getting to know everyone personally. Thats my best advice, go out of your way to get to know people on a first name basis. Strike up good conversations with them, go to a lot of munches or clubs where they frequent, and I think you will find that the less accepting people will become fewer and fewer as your reputation for being friendly and good natured grows.

(in reply to Evanesce)

Post #: 3

RE: Where do we fit? - 10/8/2005 9:53:23 AM

LadyJulieAnn

Posts: 384
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline

Why do you feel you have to "fit in" the so-called lifestyle? We are human beings and capable of a variety of experiences and interests. We may identify as one particular "type", but that doesn't mean that one can't experience or desire something else too. I think we put so much pressure on ourselves to conform to one idea/persona when we are much more complex than that. Once you find the right person (not category of person), I think all of the pressure to conform to one thing goes away.

Be well,
Julie

(in reply to Evanesce)

Post #: 4

RE: Where do we fit? - 10/8/2005 5:22:29 PM

MisterReb

Posts: 6
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline

Well put Julie...Thanks for your comments

(in reply to LadyJulieAnn)

Post #: 5

RE: Where do we fit? - 10/8/2005 5:53:35 PM

theRose4U

Posts: 495
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline

I think Julie hit the nail on the head.

I am a Domme by experience & was sub to a precious one. This was one one of those situations where the pieces just clicked with us. I was Top to 30 men at my job and took a submissive role only in tandem with him. I am a firm believer that when the pieces fit it doesn't really matter what someone elses label for you is.

I have been told by more than my share of Doms that I should just say I'm a Domme because "I don't have a sub bone in my body". For whatever reason this seems too limiting to me. While I will NEVER drop to my knees for just any ole Dom, I still hold out the hope of once again partnering with someone that feeds both sides of my heart & helps me reign in my tendency to squash any peckerwood into the ground that claims supremacy just because of a y chromosome.

(in reply to LadyJulieAnn)

Post #: 6

RE: Where do we fit? - 10/8/2005 11:40:07 PM

Evanesce

Posts: 633
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Why do you feel you have to "fit in" the so-called lifestyle? We are human beings and capable of a variety of experiences and interests. We may identify as one particular "type", but that doesn't mean that one can't experience or desire something else too. I think we put so much pressure on ourselves to conform to one idea/persona when we are much more complex than that. Once you find the right person (not category of person), I think all of the pressure to conform to one thing goes away.

Well, if by "you," you mean ME, I've had "the right person" for five and a half years, and we're doing just fine.

What I was talking about in the original post is the social aspect of this lifestyle, not one-on-one interactions. I don't care about conforming to someone else's idea of who I'm supposed to be. What I care about is acceptance.

_____________________________

Denise
the Kaptin's wench

(in reply to LadyJulieAnn)

Post #: 7

RE: Where do we fit? - 10/8/2005 11:49:20 PM

Evanesce

Posts: 633
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I do feel at times that I am an outsider, and thats okay though. Ive learned to overcome it by self-confidence and getting to know everyone personally. Thats my best advice, go out of your way to get to know people on a first name basis. Strike up good conversations with them, go to a lot of munches or clubs where they frequent, and I think you will find that the less accepting people will become fewer and fewer as your reputation for being friendly and good natured grows.

If only it were that simple. See... I know a LOT of people within the lifestyle... in several states. I've served on the Board of Directors of InKink (an educational group and NCSF Coalition Partner based in Indianapolis). I co-founded Alternative Lifestyles of Michiana (www.almichiana.org). I've worked my butt off for events such as Leather Day of Caring and others. Believe me... plenty of people know who I am.

But that doesn't mean I fit in. I still have nothing in common with most submissives... WAY too outspoken for them! I still have dominant males who expect me to defer to them. Not gonna happen. It seems female dominants and other switches are the only people who CAN accept me for me. Them, and a few really close friends in Indy.

_____________________________

Denise
the Kaptin's wench

(in reply to Saint)

Post #: 8

RE: Where do we fit? - 10/9/2005 7:05:35 AM

LadyJulieAnn

Posts: 384
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce
Well, if by "you," you mean ME, I've had "the right person" for five and a half years, and we're doing just fine.

What I was talking about in the original post is the social aspect of this lifestyle, not one-on-one interactions. I don't care about conforming to someone else's idea of who I'm supposed to be. What I care about is acceptance.

If someone doesn't accept you, that's his/her problem. You've said you are happy with yourself and your relationship and it sounds like you doing more than enough for the communities in which you participate. There are always going to be people who can't deal with somone as secure and confident as you are. The problem lies within them, and not you, and all the trying in the world won't change their level of acceptance, in my opinion.

Be well,
Julie

(in reply to Evanesce)

Post #: 9

RE: Where do we fit? - 10/9/2005 8:09:48 AM

itzelwing

Posts: 37
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline

Bummer that you're experiencing this kind of ostracism.

My personal experience around the SF Scene with groups like Janus and SMOddyssey (and some that no longer exist) has been that switches are well accepted and enjoyed for what we are... potential partners to both tops and bottoms.

Of course, we are not all the same, as some of us can only top or bottom to "the right" person. But I've never seen or felt any negativity from the rest of the community due to my orientation. Then again, I never spent a whole lot of time worrying about what someone else thinks about me either. Maybe I'm missing something?

_____________________________

Master, Friend, and Lover of ItzKat

(in reply to LadyJulieAnn)

Post #: 10

RE: Where do we fit? - 10/9/2005 6:35:09 PM

ShadeDiva

Posts: 999
Joined: 3/31/2004
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline

I rather like the fact that I don't fit in.

And I don't.

Not even in the Mecca of Perverts where switches are indeed pretty much accepted and greeted with warmth, good ol Bay area of Calif., do I *fit in*.

And you know, I most likely never WILL "fit in".

It used to bother me. A lot. And it hurt too. I cried enough lost and forlorn tears to fill an ocean or three. *wry smile*

But in the end, if acceptance and fitting in is always a struggle, and if you ever have the same realization that I did where one day it became clear that I was NEVER going to fit in, and have that one-of-the-flock jive, if one day you just know deep inside it will NEVER come from without, then you are left with two choices.

Either forever yearn and mourn that something that can and never will be is not going to happen.

Or find what you seek from within.

It's hard. It can be lonely and sad and aching and so so still at times. It can be immensely freeing and enpowering and powerful and breathtaking and beautiful too.

Some of us just never will fit in. It's not because we are a switch, or not. Some of us just aren't going to ever fit in as easily as it seems that is for most folks.

So if one day you realize wow, I really AM never going to find that elusive fitting in -- don't despair. You aren't the only one or the first to travel down that path anymore than I was, and it doesn't HAVE to be a bad thing, just a different thing. Own it, make it yours, enpower that and it will surprise you at how positive it can be to be the one that never really quite "fits in".

*smile*

These days I actually kinda wallow in my "non-fitting in-ness". LOL!

_____________________________

My projects of love:
theFetishForums
HumanFauna
Kinked
DommeWorld

(in reply to itzelwing)

Post #: 11

RE: Where do we fit? - 10/9/2005 11:04:19 PM

Evanesce

Posts: 633
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

So if one day you realize wow, I really AM never going to find that elusive fitting in -- don't despair. You aren't the only one or the first to travel down that path anymore than I was, and it doesn't HAVE to be a bad thing, just a different thing. Own it, make it yours, enpower that and it will surprise you at how positive it can be to be the one that never really quite "fits in".

I have to tell you... reading this actually brought tears to my eyes, because of all the replies to this thread, yours is the one that says, "Hey, I get it, and I know where you're coming from." Your words of encouragement have helped me more than you can know. Thank you.

_____________________________

Denise
the Kaptin's wench

(in reply to ShadeDiva)

Post #: 12

RE: Where do we fit? - 10/13/2005 4:29:48 AM

ShadeDiva

Posts: 999
Joined: 3/31/2004
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline

Thank you for finding your own inner power.

It's there, honest.

Might not feel like it some days but it is.

It's natural to want to fit in and it hurts and it's lonely and it's alienating when, well, it just never happens.

I don't think the ache ever fully goes away, I still have days where a piece of me wishes I was a part of the "in" crowd, but then I realize that I don't think I'd be who I am now, today, and that all in all, I LIKE who I am. Even if others don't see it or appreciate it or whatever it is that I might wish I was getting from them the fact is that desire is in me and the only thing that can ease it is ... me.

So you learn to work with it. It does take practice though. I failed a lot and I still have days where I fail. But I know I'm not the only person out there feeling this way and that yanno, I ain't so bad LOL.

But yanno every day I notice it DOES hurt a little less and that I do wallow a little more in my quirkiness. I am now learning to have fun with it, laugh about it, and play with it. A secret? Sometimes I act a little more weird or quirky than I actually AM. LOL. Shhhh. I wrote that with invisible letters and no one but you can read that. *wink* So no telling!

See? LOL.

_____________________________

My projects of love:
theFetishForums
HumanFauna
Kinked
DommeWorld

(in reply to Evanesce)

Post #: 13

RE: Where do we fit? - 10/13/2005 8:51:30 AM

FTopinMichigan

Posts: 571
Joined: 7/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce
I've often wondered why I have such a hard time finding my "place" within the BDSM community. Specific individuals accept me for who I am, but on the whole, I don't really fit well.
<snip>
Does anyone else find themselves "on the outside," for lack of a better term? How do you handle it?

Denise, you are one of the most outspoken people I've read in posts, here and elsewhere. And that's a good thing, as I see it. My guess is that you are the same in person and not much unlike myself...which is why I like you, and hope to meet you some day soon.

I just don't think that there are many people that truly enjoy people saying what's on their mind. Sometimes, it's the "speak until spoken to" for some in the public community , and the women (in general) shouldn't have strong opinions, and then there's the all too hard to swallow sugar notion of, "can't you sugarcoat it a little..why do you have to be so blunt."

I don't pull punches when I say how I feel about things either. Some say this is confrontational, when I think of it as being honest and up front. I was told by some that they felt I was unapproachable...until they approached me, and found they were incorrect in their assessment.

If I'm contrary...I'm a bitch. If I'm strong...I'm a bitch. If I'm assertive...I'm a bitch. And while my old nickname WAS "Evil Bitch"(twentysome years ago)...I'm really not one.

Of course generalizing....I see it's sometimes the case that some women just really don't like other women. (Some don't like men...and some even don't like "themselves.") I think it's the whole competition thing, whether it's at the forefront of a relationship, or is acted on subconsciously.

Some Doms (didn't say "all") just don't appreciate a woman that speaks her mind. I don't think that's a new idea...just how some are, and will always be. It wouldn't matter to some if you were Domme or sub/slave.

IMO, Actions, opinions, and subsequent reputations that built are hard to work through, but those that are good people, will take the time to know you as a person...as a "friend," and they are the ones to "fit" in with...not the rest.

K

(in reply to Evanesce)

Post #: 14

RE: Where do we fit? - 10/14/2005 4:38:59 PM

americanpie

Posts: 10
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U
I have been told by more than my share of Doms that I should just say I'm a Domme because "I don't have a sub bone in my body".

I have heard that quite a few times since putting up a profile on collarme. It's hilarious the amount of people who think a switch just "hasn't met the right dominant".

Good grief.

(in reply to theRose4U)

Post #: 15

RE: Where do we fit? - 10/14/2005 5:14:49 PM

theRose4U

Posts: 495
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U
I have been told by more than my share of Doms that I should just say I'm a Domme because "I don't have a sub bone in my body".

I have heard that quite a few times since putting up a profile on collarme. It's hilarious the amount of people who think a switch just "hasn't met the right dominant".

By the way think I know who told you that he keeps trying to switch me.

Here's one to REALLY make you giggle. The dominant that I refer to earlier in this thread wouldn't know what BDSM stood for if it spanked him on the butt. He was what many on here describe as a true alpha male...everything about him size, height, way he carried himself said I'm in charge. I'm not ashamed to say that I found that EXTREMELY appealing.

So the giggle for the day..what would a Dom say that the only one I ever bowed to was nilla?

(in reply to americanpie)

Post #: 16

RE: Where do we fit? - 10/14/2005 11:46:27 PM

FangsNfeet

Posts: 1466
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline

I am ME! Everyone else is FUCKED UP! and should be locked up minus a few exceptions. I don't like anybody. There are two types of ppl for me in this world. Those I hate and those that are dead. You're still alive so that puts you on the good list as a person that I don't like. So that makes you safe to come to TX and party with Pet and I.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to Evanesce)

Post #: 17

RE: Where do we fit? - 10/16/2005 4:20:11 PM

Evanesce

Posts: 633
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I am ME! Everyone else is FUCKED UP! and should be locked up minus a few exceptions. I don't like anybody. There are two types of ppl for me in this world. Those I hate and those that are dead. You're still alive so that puts you on the good list as a person that I don't like. So that makes you safe to come to TX and party with Pet and I.

LOL! OK... I guess that makes sense. And maybe if we ever find our third so I can go on the road with Master, I'll take you up on that invite, 'cause He gets down somewhere in TX at least once a month or so.

Well, we had a dungeon party last night to break in the brand new dungeon that I, and a few close friends, worked our butts off to build. Only 8 people showed up. We usually have 20-30 people hanging out in the dungeon when we have a party. A dozen people who told me they'd be here cancelled out at the last minute, and a whole lot of people just didn't bother to RSVP at all. No biggie. Five years ago, when Master and I had our very first dungeon party, only 4 people showed up of the 50 or so who had been invited, and only stayed a couple hours. I was devastated, and spent a great deal of the following day in tears. But last night I really did not care that it wasn't a huge bash. It was quiet, intimate, and very non-threatening to the one newbie submissive who came alone. Had it been bigger, she may been intimidated. Had it been bigger, it probably would not have been as relaxed as it was, and the people who DID come had a really good time.

Anyway... everyone's comments here, especially K's and ShadeDiva's, have helped me tremendously. It's just nice to know that someone else out there feels as I do, and understands what it means to feel like you're on the outside looking in... even in a group you started. I think people are simply unsettled by someone whom they cannot pigeonhole, and they don't know how to relate to them, so they don't even bother trying.

_____________________________

Denise
the Kaptin's wench

(in reply to FangsNfeet)

Post #: 18

RE: Where do we fit? - 10/17/2005 10:03:19 AM

plantlady64

Posts: 684
Joined: 5/19/2005
Status: offline

Hello There,
My Master and I discussed this very thing about not having much of a lifestyle group of friends to do vanilla things with either. I've also invited people over for dinner who have never tried to invite us to their house after coming to ours.
What he told me was that people in the lifestyle are busy with their own interests and don't seem to have as much free time as a lot of vanilla people do.
I too am frustrated that I don't feel like people are willing to be more than BDSM associates rather than friends.
I guess overall the best I can do is accept the places in peoples lives they allow me to be part of or not.
Though I'm very community oriented it's not my main focus in this realm to be most popular, it's my focus to please my Master and grow in my ability to be his wonderful slave.
Sincerely,
sub suzanne

(in reply to Evanesce)

Post #: 19

RE: Where do we fit? - 10/17/2005 1:36:58 PM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3610
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: plantlady64

Hello There,
My Master and I discussed this very thing about not having much of a lifestyle group of friends to do vanilla things with either. I've also invited people over for dinner who have never tried to invite us to their house after coming to ours.
What he told me was that people in the lifestyle are busy with their own interests and don't seem to have as much free time as a lot of vanilla people do.
I too am frustrated that I don't feel like people are willing to be more than BDSM associates rather than friends.
I guess overall the best I can do is accept the places in peoples lives they allow me to be part of or not.
Though I'm very community oriented it's not my main focus in this realm to be most popular, it's my focus to please my Master and grow in my ability to be his wonderful slave.
Sincerely,
sub suzanne

The thing is that there's no reason we should have more in common with bdsm people than we do with anyone else.

If I become friends with someone who is in bdsm, it's because we share larger interests and I would be friends with them whether they were into bdsm or not.

A lot of bdsm people find that a majority or all of their friends are also in the scene just because it's easier to meet people that way rather than deal with the anxiety or coming out process of "being into this stuff." However, just because someone is into bdsm implies no other connection (a reality that some people find difficult to accept).

(in reply to plantlady64)

Post #: 20

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