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Subspace safe? - 9/29/2004 10:43:42 PM

sunplayr

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I'm new to the dungeon party scene and just joined a local BDSM club. Right away I was told that going into subspace was "inappropriate" and if we were to play that intensely we were to play elsewhere. The reason given was that going into subspace was not safe. One cannot yell out a safeword. Who can talk let alone feel in subspace? Another reason is that people watching that may be new to the scene might "feek out" seeing this.
Thought everyone wanted to reach subspace and/or fly. Like everyone wants an orgasm. Wrong? Is subspace really dangerous? I am rather new to the whole BDSM scene (1 year) and have always felt like a square peg in the vanilla life. Now I feel like a leper in this one.

Someone enlighten me?

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RE: Subspace safe? - 9/29/2004 10:53:24 PM

stef

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Who runs this group, Playskool or Fisher-Price? I've never heard such an asinine rule before. I would suggest finding another group to become involved with.

~stef

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RE: Subspace safe? - 9/30/2004 6:54:40 AM

topcat

Posts: 1013
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Long Island
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quote:

Right away I was told that going into subspace was "inappropriate" and if we were to play that intensely we were to play elsewhere.

Midear Sun-

I am flabbergasted. Gobsmacked.

Like our Stef, I have never heard of such a thing. It's like a swing club that allows penetration but bans orgasms.

'You keep using that word- I dono think it means wha you think it means-"
Are we using the words 'BDSM' 'dungeon' and 'subspace' the same way? you weren't working a scene at a munch or something?

I'd find a new club. Az seems to be a up and coming scene, so it should be possible.

Stay warm,
Lawrence

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RE: Subspace safe? - 9/30/2004 7:48:27 AM

addicted2it

Posts: 53
Joined: 5/31/2004
From: California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunplayr

I'm new to the dungeon party scene and just joined a local BDSM club. Right away I was told that going into subspace was "inappropriate" and if we were to play that intensely we were to play elsewhere. The reason given was that going into subspace was not safe. One cannot yell out a safeword. Who can talk let alone feel in subspace? Another reason is that people watching that may be new to the scene might "feek out" seeing this.
Thought everyone wanted to reach subspace and/or fly. Like everyone wants an orgasm. Wrong? Is subspace really dangerous? I am rather new to the whole BDSM scene (1 year) and have always felt like a square peg in the vanilla life. Now I feel like a leper in this one.

Someone enlighten me?

It is not uncommon to experience what is called "subspace" in a public venue. I do not know who told you that it was inapporpriate to experience this in public, since many people I know Do go into subspace regularly at parties and clubs, so whoever told you this was wrong.

Since you are relatively new to the scene, and I am sure that you are anxious to play, I would recommend that you really get to know the Domme or Dom you are playing with first; because BDSM is basically an exchange of power, and therefore all about trusting the person to whom you relinquish that power.

Anyone can call themselves a Dom/Domme, but until you reach a point where you can trust that person, I would not forget to use safewords when (or even before) your limits are exceeded. This is YOUR responsibility. And, during this period of getting to know each other to the point where you trust Her/Him, do practice this in a safe environmnet, and with someone who is knowledgable present. In fact, it is probably BETTER to practice in a supervised enviornment, with responsible people present, than to experiment in private with someone you do not know very well.

A responsible club always uses DMs. DMs should be constantly on the lookout for possible danger to the submissive, because not everyone who attends a play party or club function is screened as to whether or not they are experienced and can play safely.

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RE: Subspace safe? - 9/30/2004 9:30:41 AM

sunplayr

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I believe maybe I should clarify this a bit.

My Dom is very experienced but new to this state and club. I have played with him privately for several months and trust him so much it is possible for me to 'let go'. I know that we cannot all express ourselves in the same way so I think maybe when I go into subspace it's not like others do? I've been told that when I go in very deeply I look like I'm dead. My breathing slows, my body completely relaxes (flops actually) and I am totally unresponsive to anyone or anything except him. I'm in a completely uphoric state, sort of out-of-body, don't feel anything but aware of every move and emotional thought he has. I am always blindfolded (my choice). I feel like singing. What a awsome thing to be connected to another human being like this!
I've been is similar 'places' from intense, prolonged, repeated orgasms. Coming out has me in a very emotional needy place. I cannot stop myself from doing any of this nor does my Dom want me to.
So, if you don't understand any of this I guess it makes me a freak according to the DMs at this organization (it's a large, well known BDSM club). They are afraid I won't wake up? Die? What?
I've never played publically before nor been a part of any other BDSM group so I have no idea what other people are like.
Thanks,
Sunplayr

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RE: Subspace safe? - 9/30/2004 4:53:31 PM

addicted2it

Posts: 53
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From: California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunplayr

I believe maybe I should clarify this a bit.

My Dom is very experienced but new to this state and club. I have played with him privately for several months and trust him so much it is possible for me to 'let go'. I know that we cannot all express ourselves in the same way so I think maybe when I go into subspace it's not like others do? I've been told that when I go in very deeply I look like I'm dead. My breathing slows, my body completely relaxes (flops actually) and I am totally unresponsive to anyone or anything except him. I'm in a completely uphoric state, sort of out-of-body, don't feel anything but aware of every move and emotional thought he has. I am always blindfolded (my choice). I feel like singing. What a awsome thing to be connected to another human being like this!
I've been is similar 'places' from intense, prolonged, repeated orgasms. Coming out has me in a very emotional needy place. I cannot stop myself from doing any of this nor does my Dom want me to.
So, if you don't understand any of this I guess it makes me a freak according to the DMs at this organization (it's a large, well known BDSM club). They are afraid I won't wake up? Die? What?
I've never played publically before nor been a part of any other BDSM group so I have no idea what other people are like.
Thanks,
Sunplayr

sunplayr,

I'm glad that you clarified your relationship with your Dom, because I was under the impression that he or she was someone who was inexperienced. Since you've known him, and played with him before, I am certain that you have the level of trust that is required to feel as safe and protected as possible.

I don't know where this "dungeon party" was held, but I guarantee you that it is perfectly OK to subspace and orgasm at any party or club that I have ever been to.

What you have described as a trans-like state, and sounds like subspace to me. There is nothing wrong with you going there with anyone who has the experience to monitor your safety, even in a public play space. I've been to parties and clubs in both San Francisco and Los Angeles, and have heard nothing about a rule prohibiting subspace or orgams. (I sure wish I knew which "club" you were at, so that I never mistakenly go there.)

I think you just had a very bad experience (and I don't mean the subspace and orgasm, but the wrong information) there because of uneducated and uninformed person or persons.

If you are in a new state, and are close of a major city, try to get involved in their community. I have found that people in larger cities, such as New York City, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Houston, Portland, etc., have much more knowledge, and are willing to share that knowledge -- especially with those who are new to the area or to the scene.

Attend the local munches, if there are any. Meet people who have had experience. They will know where the best public places to play are located. If you live outside of a major metropolitan area, then try to find an online group that is closest to where you live. Most message boards and groups and very welcoming and warm, except for those particular idiots that pop in and out, known as HNGs. And, most importantly, stay in touch with CM. If anyone here gives you the wrong information, or jumps on you in any way, they will be properly dealt with. There are some good people here, and certainly some good information to be had as well. In the mean time, enjoy and continue to play safely. :-)

phil

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RE: Subspace safe? - 9/30/2004 6:39:25 PM

alwayzron

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Interesting post ... it may be that the people running the group are fearful from a liability standpoint. If someone gets hurt in their establishment, they're left to hold the legal bag, so to speak. A couple of interesting points from your post ...

"going into subspace was not safe" ... Many people argue the existence of subspace. To many some it's very real. The disparity is in the definition of 'subspace'. I'm still divided on the issue, but for me, I do find that I'm able to lose myself in certain situations ... mostly from the help of endorphins. And I find that I'm perfectly able to communicate with others at this time, I just don't want to end the experience. I liken it to not wanting to fully wake up in the morning. You know those times when you know you should open your eyes and get up, but you really really really don't want to?

One cannot yell out a safeword. ... This is another interesting subject. On one hand, there are many (experience) Dommes that I know that hold that safe words have become unneeded with submissives that they're known for years. They've come to a place where they know each other so well that they know when lines are being approached. I do know a couple (Man/wife) for whom this applies. They seem to have an unspoken bond between them where she says she has never had to use a safe word ... he always seemed to instinctively know when he had reaced her limits.

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RE: Subspace safe? - 9/30/2004 8:18:59 PM

addicted2it

Posts: 53
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From: California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: alwayzron

Interesting post ... it may be that the people running the group are fearful from a liability standpoint. If someone gets hurt in their establishment, they're left to hold the legal bag, so to speak. A couple of interesting points from your post ...

"going into subspace was not safe" ... Many people argue the existence of subspace. To many some it's very real. The disparity is in the definition of 'subspace'. I'm still divided on the issue, but for me, I do find that I'm able to lose myself in certain situations ... mostly from the help of endorphins. And I find that I'm perfectly able to communicate with others at this time, I just don't want to end the experience. I liken it to not wanting to fully wake up in the morning. You know those times when you know you should open your eyes and get up, but you really really really don't want to?

One cannot yell out a safeword. ... This is another interesting subject. On one hand, there are many (experience) Dommes that I know that hold that safe words have become unneeded with submissives that they're known for years. They've come to a place where they know each other so well that they know when lines are being approached. I do know a couple (Man/wife) for whom this applies. They seem to have an unspoken bond between them where she says she has never had to use a safe word ... he always seemed to instinctively know when he had reaced her limits.

alwayzron,

I did not suspect that the people running the play party were necessarily worried about liability. I interpreted their comments relating to "subspace" and "orgasams" were more about ignorance than fear of legal liability.

My belief is that subspace is the ability of the mind to go into another dimension. It is not unusual that those who play, whether they be dom/domme or submissve/slave, to be able to access this level of consciousness. One can debate whether or not this state of consciousness exisits, but many have found it, and will attest to it's existence. What you have said about, "loosing yourself" is exactly what I am talking about, and endorphins play a large part in the entry to this state of mind.

But, just for the record, one person's experience does not equal another person's experience. You may never get into the space that has been previously described, but you should probably not pass it off in the way that you did, by saying that, "you loose yourself in certain situations," because it is obvious to me that these two explanations might actually be the same, although each situation may be different, but only with a different level of intensity.

While I certainly agree that individuals who go so deeply into this realm do not, under the circumstances, cannot utter a safe word; I still believe that those individuals have enough trust in their dom/dommes to be free-enough to just go with the flow. The "unspoken bond" that you refer to only demonstrates that it can work.

My main concern was the statement that subspace and orgasm were not permitted in a public space.

Thank you for your input.

Sincerely,

phil

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RE: Subspace safe? - 10/1/2004 4:41:51 AM

alwayzron

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phil,

"...one person's experience does not equal another person's experience"

Very well written brother. A lot of people try to bottle D/s neatly into the package that they view it as. I may guilty of that as well, on some occasions.

I'm still divided on the main issue of allowing subspace or orgasm. It may well be ignorance, as you stated. Still ... you come to my party, you play by my rules .... that might be the real reason. The best advice given was by Stef .... Find another group to become involved in.

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RE: Subspace safe? - 10/1/2004 7:42:07 AM

addicted2it

Posts: 53
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quote:

ORIGINAL: alwayzron

phil,

"...one person's experience does not equal another person's experience"

Very well written brother. A lot of people try to bottle D/s neatly into the package that they view it as. I may guilty of that as well, on some occasions.

I'm still divided on the main issue of allowing subspace or orgasm. It may well be ignorance, as you stated. Still ... you come to my party, you play by my rules .... that might be the real reason. The best advice given was by Stef .... Find another group to become involved in.

alwayzron,

Your bring up a good point, "...you come to my party, you play by my rules." I didn't think of that until you brought it up. Case in point: there are some private parties where the use of alcohol is prohibited; and then there are those where alcohol is allowed. Most people agree that playing under the influence of any drug (including alcohol) is not a good idea. And I don't belive that clubs serve drinks, though I have not been to all of them.

But yeah, rules! There are always rules, and those of us who go to the parties have to accept and abide by them or not go there at all.

I also agree with you that stef's sugesstion to boycott that dungeon party was probably the best advice yet.

phil

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RE: Subspace safe? - 10/1/2004 12:33:55 PM

LadyShoshin

Posts: 480
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Burlington, Ontario
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunplayr

I'm new to the dungeon party scene and just joined a local BDSM club. Right away I was told that going into subspace was "inappropriate" and if we were to play that intensely we were to play elsewhere. The reason given was that going into subspace was not safe. One cannot yell out a safeword. Who can talk let alone feel in subspace? Another reason is that people watching that may be new to the scene might "feek out" seeing this.
Thought everyone wanted to reach subspace and/or fly. Like everyone wants an orgasm. Wrong? Is subspace really dangerous? I am rather new to the whole BDSM scene (1 year) and have always felt like a square peg in the vanilla life. Now I feel like a leper in this one.

Someone enlighten me?

I had to look at your profile to see if you are near me, there was a group that had similar rules. Subspace is no more dangerous than meditating if you are playing with someone who knows what they are doing & knows your reactions. If newbies freek out, then the hosts should be talking to them, telling them this is normal for some people and nothing to worry about. If you feel like a leper in that group, get the heck out of dodge and find a group that has a more adult & less paranoid view of the lifestyle.

I have to agree with the people who said, my sandbox, my rules. I go to a few parties regularly in the area, there are others I don't attend because I have been at least once & left angry. If I don't like their sandbox, I find one more to my taste, or I can build my own if I really have to.

< Message edited by LadyShoshin -- 10/1/2004 12:37:57 PM >

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