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Submissive or slave? - 4/7/2005 10:15:54 AM   
cellogrrlMK


Posts: 672
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		When I first joined collarme and was filling out the registration form I, like everyone who registers here, got to the part where I had to check my classification. I didn't have to think very long before clicking on "Submissive" rather than "Slave".

As I've gotten to "know" some people on the site in a couple of the chatrooms and through reading posts on the forums, I get a slight feeling that there is a certain amount of contempt held by people towards submissives as opposed to slaves. I saw one profile that said (paraphrased) "if you have any limits you're nothing but a 'subbie girl', not a slave".

Is there something wrong with this? To me, the use of the word "subbie" is really annoying, I don't see it as a term of affection, especially in the context I see it in so many posts, but rather as a condescending term used by both Dom/mes and slaves.

Is there something wrong with being submissive and not a slave? I don't call any Dom/me "Master" or "Mistress" except for my own Master; I will be polite and respectful to others (unless someone is real asshole, then I don't care what any of us call ourselves, I stick up for myself) and call them "Sir" or "Ma'am". The Gorean men I've met here have been very nice about it for the most part, but I do feel an underlying current amongst the women. Don't get me wrong, they're all really nice, but I almost feel like some of them feel sorry for me!

My Master refers to me as his slave; I would do practically anything for him.. PRACTICALLY anything. I do have limits which he has pushed and they're not so much limits anymore, and then I have hard limits upon which I will not budge. He's tried pushing those too and the result wasn't pretty <LOL>. Does that make me not HIS slave? I don't think so.

Any comments would be welcomed

cello
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Submissive or slave? - 4/7/2005 11:01:56 AM   
smilezz


Posts: 489
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		I understand exactly what you have written cello..i identify as being a submissive slave with dominant sadistic traits. I can tell you... that will confuse the hell out of most people...but then again i have never cared what most people thought either. I am Thorns' slave....i submit to Him only...anyone else is just water under the bridge so to speak.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being who you are...i am me, i am happy being me...Thorns is happy with me, that's what matters. I am comfortable in my own skin and Life is Grand!

Happy Thursday!

~smilezz~

_____________________________

"Please excuse my Sense of Justice...it's the only thing that saves You from the Slaughter"

"What you cannot enforce, do not command - Sophocles"



(in reply to cellogrrlMK)
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RE: Submissive or slave? - 4/7/2005 11:04:20 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3610
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I shuddered when I saw the subject line... NO not another sub vs slave debate!

No, being a slave is not inherently better than being a sub.

No, being collared is not inherently better than being uncollared.

Does that mean people won't act otherwise? No.

People like to be elitist, they like to think they are better, THEY are never doormats, THEY are never dishonest, THEY know that this is just way better than ANY other possible option out there forever and ever and ever.

So let them be.

(in reply to smilezz)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Submissive or slave? - 4/7/2005 11:22:58 AM   
lil1v


Posts: 125
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cellogrrlMK

I saw one profile that said (paraphrased) "if you have any limits you're nothing but a 'subbie girl', not a slave".


Well everyone has limits.. despite saying they don't. Ok.. well there might be ONE special doormat out there that has none. But I think if you asked most "slaves" if they'd agree to be doused with gasoline and set on fire, they'd probably say no.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cellogrrlMK


Is there something wrong with this? To me, the use of the word "subbie" is really annoying, I don't see it as a term of affection, especially in the context I see it in so many posts, but rather as a condescending term used by both Dom/mes and slaves.

Is there something wrong with being submissive and not a slave? I don't call any Dom/me "Master" or "Mistress" except for my own Master; I will be polite and respectful to others and call them "Sir" or "Ma'am".

My Master refers to me as his slave; I would do practically anything for him.. PRACTICALLY anything.


I think you're just perfect in yourself. :) Don't let others tell you different. Besides the only opinion that truely matters is what your Master thinks of you. All else is dirt in the wind, wash it off daily. :)

As for the term "subbie" .. I always liked the word. But then I have had several Dom friends who used to greet me with "How's my favorite subbie?" As for the profile that said if you have limits you're nothing but.. yeah I usually read those and think "idiot".. Definately not for me.

I don't think there is anything wrong with either label.. submissive or slave. I do think people tend to "respect" slaves more in the same way if you refer to your Dom as "my Dom" doesn't get the same respect from everyone as saying "my Master". I don't think its right, but it is how it is.

Ok.. I'm going to refer to an old biblical parable as I am a Christian and it is the best way I know of to explain this..

In the bible it talks of how blessed this woman was for giving one coin in offering, more so than those who had given several coins. Because that woman gave all she had. Such is the same here. Submissive or slave the blessing is in giving all that you have. All for one person is not the same as all for another.

Just my two cents..




_____________________________

v

"Lies are for wimps who are afraid of the truth."


(in reply to cellogrrlMK)
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RE: Submissive or slave? - 4/7/2005 11:40:12 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 2326
Joined: 6/18/2004
From: Palos Verdes Estates
Status: offline
quote:

I get a slight feeling that there is a certain amount of contempt held by people towards submissives as opposed to slaves.


it's more than slight, and it isn't reserved especially for submissives---if you take a good look around you will find a certain amount of contempt towards ALL MANNER of things, the way people refer to themselves or others is a big one. Certain "behaviors" are also revered or repulsed. Take a look at any thread asking for a "definition" of the terms we use to refer to ourselves and others with relation to WIITWD: sub, slave, switch, Master, Goddess, etc. and you come across a variety of definitions from personal to Webster's, the reasons behind them, the history or lack of, sweet or funny anecdotal comments, and the inevitable acrimonious debate.

this slave is glad that there are many who are willing to offer their opinions, she actually believes it helps those who are new to this, and it is often entertaining to some who are not so new to this.

quote:

Is there something wrong with being submissive and not a slave?


As the shrink would say...."How do YOU feel about that?" or maybe the "Kink-aware Professional" would say...."How does your MASTER feel about that?"...

quote:

My Master refers to me as his slave


it has been this slave's experience that is the only validation necessary.

_____________________________

Merc & beth

"The words printed here are concepts. You must go through the experiences." - Saint Augustine

(in reply to cellogrrlMK)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Submissive or slave? - 4/7/2005 12:16:38 PM   
cellogrrlMK


Posts: 672
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks for your replies folks, I appreciate your insights.

smilezz, I carry I knife, it's really pretty <G> All I really use it for is to dig holes in the floor for my cello, but there's something we kind of have in common <wink>

EmeraldSlave, I've always enjoyed reading your posts; I'm sure this topic has been posted everytime someone is new to the site, so I appreciate your patience and your answer.

lil1v, thanks for your perspective; sometimes the Bible DOES have good things in it!

beth, your and Merc's posts are always something I look forward to reading, my Master feels the same way about that too. Please tell me, what the heck is "WIITWD"????

Thanks again to all of you!

cello

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Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Submissive or slave? - 4/7/2005 12:25:35 PM   
siamsa24


Posts: 2052
Joined: 2/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Please tell me, what the heck is "WIITWD"????


It means "what it is that we do"

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RE: Submissive or slave? - 4/7/2005 12:45:37 PM   
cellogrrlMK


Posts: 672
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: siamsa24

It means "what it is that we do"



Ah! Thank you siamsa

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RE: Submissive or slave? - 4/7/2005 5:10:57 PM   
sweetpettjenny


Posts: 654
Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline 		I think there should be no problem from anyone ...concerning slave verse submissive..We are supposed to be a tolerant group of people .In the end we are exactly what we started as human, woman(or man) next, then slave or submissive. Look at the order and tell me if it really matters...

(in reply to cellogrrlMK)
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RE: Submissive or slave? - 4/8/2005 11:43:45 AM   
Destinysskeins


Posts: 267
Joined: 7/1/2004
Status: offline 		Greetings,

Welcome to the site and boards! You are what you are to your Dom/Master and that's all that matters. If He's happy then you're doing your job - no matter what someone else might like to have you believe. It's hard for some to believe but no one holds the crown for most knowledgeable, most revered, most whatever person in the BDSM world (though i'm betting there's quite a few in hard running for 'most asinine' title! ).

So, remember - an ass by any other name is still an ass so shrug off the lamers and enjoy the wonderful dialogue presented by the multitude of very fine folks we have here at collarme!

Well wishes!

(in reply to sweetpettjenny)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Submissive or slave? - 4/8/2005 9:13:58 PM   
MasterzKitten


Posts: 47
Joined: 1/16/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings sellogrllMK

quote:

Is there something wrong with being submissive and not a slave?

As E/everyone else has said, E/everyone views things differently about what they think is better than something else. But all that really matters is what you and your Master think, so take everything else that people say with a grain of salt.

quote:

To me, the use of the word "subbie" is really annoying

Depending on the context its being used it, i totally agree, i rarely see it being used as a term of endearment or in any way nice.

Best of wishes to you and Yours



_____________________________

.*.Brightest of Blessings to Y/you and Y/yours.*.

~kitten~

(in reply to Destinysskeins)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Submissive or slave? - 4/9/2005 3:39:32 AM   
slaveanwyl


Posts: 36
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline 		when i started reading your post i thought oh my god not again, but i read on to see if it was another one of those a slave is better than a sub or the other way round thing..

well i live as a 24/7 TPE slave i am called property by Master and some say that W/we live and extreme life .. its not true well i dont think so anyway ..

as for slaves being doormats in any way i think you will discover if you speak to some they are anything but and yes a slave does have limits to a degree but that is before being collared after this time a slave is suppossed to not have any whilst i do not have any limits with Master that is to say i know Master is not stupid thick or a dam right idiot someone said if he chose to dowse her in petrol and set light to her well to me that is so stupid it does not derserve any credit at all .. a Master values his property he would not harm it like that..

so between Master and i this slave has no limits but when i am put with another Master my Master sets limits on my usage

as to being a sub all slaves are submissive the only difference i can see is that a sub hold onto some aspects of control and has more say in things as well as be able to dictate when, how , if and such things so she will function in a D/s relationship very well some subs submit more than others some would like to be slave but are unable to commit to that level because of outside factors..
when i first came into this lifestlye i would never admit to being a slave i had this thing about it i thought that if you were a slave you were indeed a doormat which is wrong there may be some out there but i have not met any in 2 years and W/we are very active in the llifestyle ...infact most slaves i do meet know exactly what they want from life and how to get it and most of them have very important careers and jobs and are well educated ..

i believe that it does not matter if you are sub or slave it matters that you enjoy what you do and that you choose it and its right for you do not listen to those who say all this shit a slave is better than a sub a sub is better than a slave we are all submissives some like to be slaves some dont its personal choice ..


(in reply to cellogrrlMK)
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RE: Submissive or slave? - 4/9/2005 8:04:52 AM   
cellogrrlMK


Posts: 672
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Destinysskeins

You are what you are to your Dom/Master and that's all that matters.




Destinysskeins, thank you to you and all the others who have said the same thing. I suppose I've been a little surprised by the attitudes of some, but as I've always thought to each his/her own, even if it doesn't float my boat. I used to connect that to certain BDSM practices during play, not living the life.

I could never live having to ask permission to do things from having a ciggie to going to the bathroom, I would never beg someone for their collar (Master gave me mine without my asking for it ). But I would do just about anything for my Master. We both deal with marital stuff such as finances, taking care of the animals (which I brought to the relationship; he's grown to love them too), cleaning the house, etc. So I am trying now to adjust my "to each his/her own" to encompass all aspects of the lifestyle with all of its diversity.


quote:


So, remember - an ass by any other name is still an ass so shrug off the lamers and enjoy the wonderful dialogue presented by the multitude of very fine folks we have here at collarme!




I really like this site; wonderful people here and for some reason the message boards here seem to be less intimidating than those on bondage.com. I appreciate what everyone has contributed to this thread; MasterzKitten and slaveanwyl, thank both of you two for your insights!

cello

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Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Submissive or slave? - 4/13/2005 11:15:41 AM   
littleone35


Posts: 403
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline 		cello i totally agree with eveything you said. I was Gorean trained and we are trained to call all Don'r Masters ans all Dommes Mistress but i can understand that you ony call you own Master master. I had a special Namw for my late Gorens Master int the Goreean lanuage ir was Vana'shashe whis in English is my one true Master thar mad it eaiser to call the others Master. I also have limits that my Master will not push he only pushes my soft limits.

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RE: Submissive or slave? - 4/13/2005 11:32:48 AM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		i have noticed the undercurrent of contemt for those that are submissive to. Often refered to as just submissive. i have a goal in my life, and since tha tis not serving, i am considerd second rate. i do serve but that always comes in second to my goal. But this contemnt is more from the females than the men, at most often from other submissive girls.

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RE: Submissive or slave? - 4/13/2005 6:05:55 PM   
rozynozy


Posts: 21
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline 		I consider myself a "slave", and am very proud of it. But I do have my limitations, and my Master knows this. Just like you, I would do almost anything to please him, but he knows the boundaries and we are very open and honest about them. I think either term is up to the people involved. No one can say you are or aren't a slave, if that is what you consider yourself, then so be it.

Rozy

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Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Submissive or slave? - 4/13/2005 8:13:18 PM   
cellogrrlMK


Posts: 672
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rozynozy

I consider myself a "slave", and am very proud of it. But I do have my limitations, and my Master knows this. Just like you, I would do almost anything to please him, but he knows the boundaries and we are very open and honest about them. I think either term is up to the people involved. No one can say you are or aren't a slave, if that is what you consider yourself, then so be it.

Rozy


Ah, but rozy, because you have limitations (as do I) some would not consider you a slave, and as nella said, some of the women look upon us with a bit of contempt.

But like you said and others have said, the term is up to the people involved. I'm learning to live with that and not be bothered by being "looked down upon" by some of the REAL slaves (sarcasm intended, sorry, can't help myself sometimes!).

Best to you :)

cello

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RE: Submissive or slave? - 4/13/2005 8:37:36 PM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		slave, submissive, bottom, marcosist, passive, servant and more, all theese are labels and there is not a universal right or wrong as to their meaning in BDSM, pick the one that pleese your Master and you and ignore what other pepole say aboute it. Or learn from their opinion and then continue whit what you feel is best yourself.

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RE: Submissive or slave? - 4/13/2005 9:36:35 PM   
cellogrrlMK


Posts: 672
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nella

slave, submissive, bottom, marcosist, passive, servant and more, all theese are labels and there is not a universal right or wrong as to their meaning in BDSM, pick the one that pleese your Master and you and ignore what other pepole say aboute it. Or learn from their opinion and then continue whit what you feel is best yourself.



Wise counsel nella, as has been everyone's, and it is much appreciated! Thank you

(in reply to nella)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Submissive or slave? - 4/14/2005 12:32:48 AM   
MistressJadeMTL


Posts: 91
Joined: 12/18/2004
From: Montreal, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

To me, the use of the word "subbie" is really annoying, I don't see it as a term of affection, especially in the context I see it in so many posts, but rather as a condescending term used by both Dom/mes and slaves.


Dear cello,

Actually, for myself and several other Dominants that I know, "subbie" is often used as a term of endearment, just like "pet" or "little one".

I think it depends greatly on the tone in which is used. Like any other word in the English language, when used with scorn, it can become a condescending term or even an insult. Do not let the use of the word itself bother you, but rather the whole context of the sentence/paragraph.

However, that being said, there are a lot of people in this community who seem to have a strong need to place themselves above others in whatever way they can... be it by deriding other people's kink as being less acceptable, of them being less of a submissive or less of a Dom/Domme then they are, of being more of a pain-slut than someone else, etc. Some people simply seem have a fetish of "one-up-manship" ; they feel a strong need to be above someone else to feel any sense of self-worth -- and this does not apply only to Dom/Dommes but to subs/slaves as well.

Learn to rise above it best you can and try to not let it bother you. Generally, those sorts of people are not the ones worth associating with in the long run. Ignore them and move on; it can only make *you* feel better in the long run.

Having limits within a relationship, whether it be sub or slave, can be perfectly acceptable -- as long as it is something that both you *and* your Master have agreed to. Both of you should be making your own "definition" of what "is" your relationship -- not others. If you are both happy with it and each other - who cares what others think!!

My 2ยข worth, as usual...


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_____________________________

~ Mistress Jade Dragon

Founder, Club Fetish - http://www.ClubFetish.ca
Montreal BDSM/Fetish Calendar of events: http://ClubFetish.ca/calendar

(in reply to cellogrrlMK)
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