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Polyquandary - 9/5/2005 1:28:40 PM

AbstractSavant

Posts: 123
Joined: 6/5/2005
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A friend of mine is in a complicated poly situation, and I don't know what advice to give her...as my poly situation isn't the happiest, either.

She and her primary partner have been monogomous for the past month so they can work out all of their relationship issues, decide what they want for their future and build up a good base of trust and security.

Their "monogomy month" is fast coming to an end, and the problem is...they've each decided that what they want for the future is something different.

She very much wants a monogomous situation, where they can attend play events or bring other people in together. (Is this called swinging?) She doesn't want to date or build individual relationships with other men.

He wants to continue in the style of polyamory where they each date and play with other people at their discretion as individuals. My personal theory about why he wants this is because he did have a secondary on the side and wants to re-kindle his relationship with her.

He won't be happy with the choice for monogomy, and she won't be happy with the choice for polyamory. Each of the other has said they're willing to make the other choice, so the other could be happy...but both realize that it isn't the healthiest option.

Now...is there any way these two can work this out? They are very much in love...but she seems to think the only solution is to split up until they're both at a place in their lives where they want similar things.

Post #: 1

RE: Polyquandary - 9/5/2005 1:56:07 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 823
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AbstractSavant

A friend of mine is in a complicated poly situation, and I don't know what advice to give her...as my poly situation isn't the happiest, either.

She and her primary partner have been monogomous for the past month so they can work out all of their relationship issues, decide what they want for their future and build up a good base of trust and security.

Their "monogomy month" is fast coming to an end, and the problem is...they've each decided that what they want for the future is something different.

She very much wants a monogomous situation, where they can attend play events or bring other people in together. (Is this called swinging?) She doesn't want to date or build individual relationships with other men.

He wants to continue in the style of polyamory where they each date and play with other people at their discretion as individuals. My personal theory about why he wants this is because he did have a secondary on the side and wants to re-kindle his relationship with her.

He won't be happy with the choice for monogomy, and she won't be happy with the choice for polyamory. Each of the other has said they're willing to make the other choice, so the other could be happy...but both realize that it isn't the healthiest option.

Now...is there any way these two can work this out? They are very much in love...but she seems to think the only solution is to split up until they're both at a place in their lives where they want similar things.

I tend to have to agree with your friends own assessement of her own situation. a poly and mono just don't mix as a relationship. One or the other has to give up there desire or need ... short term it might work... it is not a situation that in my opinion has a long term potential.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 9/5/2005 2:00:15 PM >

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RE: Polyquandary - 9/5/2005 2:00:27 PM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3610
Joined: 1/1/2004
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Isn't that what this month has BEEN? WOrking out what they want? They worked out what they wanted, excellent.

Happens to be they don't want the same thing.

From an objective standpoint the solution is easy- end the relationship as nicely as you can now and move on so that each person can have what they want.

Your question isn't "how can they work it out" but "how can they change what they want so they can be together." I think it would be wrong to tell either of them that they need to change what they want- specially after taking a solid mature month to sort it out!

Emotions make it harder, you don't want to "give up" you don't want to "fail." BUt the only reason this is on the poly boards is that the compatibility issue is a poly one. You could insert ANYTHING here- job, living space, kids, money, education, and the issue would be exactly the same.

They've done the best they could, something I wish more relationships would do. I think they need to accept it and move on.

(in reply to AbstractSavant)

Post #: 3

RE: Polyquandary - 9/5/2005 2:02:34 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 823
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

Isn't that what this month has BEEN? WOrking out what they want? They worked out what they wanted, excellent.

Happens to be they don't want the same thing.

From an objective standpoint the solution is easy- end the relationship as nicely as you can now and move on so that each person can have what they want.

Your question isn't "how can they work it out" but "how can they change what they want so they can be together." I think it would be wrong to tell either of them that they need to change what they want- specially after taking a solid mature month to sort it out!

Emotions make it harder, you don't want to "give up" you don't want to "fail." BUt the only reason this is on the poly boards is that the compatibility issue is a poly one. You could insert ANYTHING here- job, living space, kids, money, education, and the issue would be exactly the same.

They've done the best they could, something I wish more relationships would do. I think they need to accept it and move on.

In addtion to what emerald has said... I would add... that you don't need to give her advice.. you just need to be supportive as a friend can be as she acts on what is best for her.

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Knight of Mists

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Post #: 4

RE: Polyquandary - 9/5/2005 2:03:26 PM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3610
Joined: 1/1/2004
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2nd post to react to non-direct post related comments

quote:

ORIGINAL: AbstractSavant

A friend of mine is in a complicated poly situation, and I don't know what advice to give her...as my poly situation isn't the happiest, either.

Sorry yours isn't so hot, feel free to ask advice.

quote:

She very much wants a monogomous situation, where they can attend play events or bring other people in together. (Is this called swinging?)

No, it's sharing hobbies. Swinging is a specific activity involving casual frequent sex, usually as a couple with others, with no desire for more.

Playing with others is just sharing a hobby and forming friendships. You CAN of course both be swingers and into bdsm but they are distinct sub cultures (bdsm tends to look down on swinging for its "low morals" and casualness, and swingers tend to look down on bdsm for its arrogance and lack of flexibility).

(in reply to AbstractSavant)

Post #: 5

RE: Polyquandary - 9/5/2005 2:04:02 PM

chellekitty

Posts: 28
Joined: 3/27/2005
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just for the record, by the definitions i've seen, what she wants is an open relationship...
and i have no idea how to help your friend...but to rephrase what you've said, compromising on something so fundementally basic can lead to nothing but heart aches and frustrations...

wishing ya'll well
chelle

(in reply to AbstractSavant)

Post #: 6

RE: Polyquandary - 9/5/2005 3:31:01 PM

LadiesBladewing

Posts: 518
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline

I can tell you that it is possible to remain in love, and still understand that it is unhealthy to continue to try to live together. This seems to be the point that your friend and her husband have arrived at, and I congratulate them for working together and coming to this realization before spite, anger, frustration, guilt, and misery drove them to it in painful steps.

At least now, they have the opportunity to separate on positive terms, with the understanding that the reason that they are moving on is because the path that they have walked together is now separating, and they each need to take a different branch. My ex and I, and my mate's ex and she, have this kind of amicable separation, where we still acknowledge that we love and care for one another, but that our lives have gone in directions that it would be unhealthy to force the other to travel.

The best thing that you can do is just be there, while they deal with the grieiving process that comes with -any- change of this magnitude--especially where someone we have shared years of our lives with are no longer there.

Lady Zephyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: AbstractSavant

He won't be happy with the choice for monogomy, and she won't be happy with the choice for polyamory. Each of the other has said they're willing to make the other choice, so the other could be happy...but both realize that it isn't the healthiest option.

Now...is there any way these two can work this out? They are very much in love...but she seems to think the only solution is to split up until they're both at a place in their lives where they want similar things.

(in reply to AbstractSavant)

Post #: 7

RE: Polyquandary - 9/5/2005 5:07:41 PM

smilezz

Posts: 489
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline

quote:

She very much wants a monogomous situation, where they can attend play events or bring other people in together. (Is this called swinging?) She doesn't want to date or build individual relationships with other men.

She can still be monogamous with him if that is 'her' want/need/desire. She does not have to date or build anything with other men either. I guess my question would be how much are they willing to communicate with each other and work this out? Are they willing to sit down and discuss boundries? constant reassurance if this is what they choose?
The reason i state this is that i live this...i know!.. i have been through this. I have stated many times in other threads about this too. Thorns and i have been together for close to 5 years now..........He plays with others, i do not. I am monogamous to Him only. We ARE the core to this relationship...that is never going to change.....no one will come between us...and yet, this works great for us. It took some time to get to this peace of knowing and acceptance. It was not always easy........but honestly...what's more important?
I do suggest as others have here........just be there for your friend. There truly is nothing you can do but listen and offer advice if she requests it. I wish them luck...and you too for being a friend.

quote:

a poly and mono just don't mix as a relationship. One or the other has to give up there desire or need ... short term it might work... it is not a situation that in my opinion has a long term potential.

I understand this is your opinion.........i am just here to state that it works and has worked for us. It can work for those that are seriously comitted to keeping that communication out on the table at all times.

~smilezz~

http://www.xeromag.com/fvmonopoly.html

_____________________________

"Please excuse my Sense of Justice...it's the only thing that saves You from the Slaughter"

"What you cannot enforce, do not command - Sophocles"

(in reply to AbstractSavant)

Post #: 8

RE: Polyquandary - 9/5/2005 5:14:05 PM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3610
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: smilezz
She can still be monogamous with him if that is 'her' want/need/desire. She does not have to date or build anything with other men either.

Excellent point. Neither the boyfriend and I are really sure of his poly nature yet. He can easily play with others, male and female, top or bottom, and OCCASIONALLY has some sexual contact with them if I am there and initiate things, but he has not taken opportunities to actually have sex with other women which were freely given to him, nor has he felt any real emotional connection.

So, two people can be of very different poly natures and still be compatible with eachother.

In this particular circumstance, it seemed more like the woman wanted both of them to be sexually monogamous, and any other activities should be done as a couple.

(in reply to smilezz)

Post #: 9

RE: Polyquandary - 9/5/2005 5:37:35 PM

Sylverdawn

Posts: 234
Joined: 1/1/2004
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Im in what they call a closed poly. I can understand your friends wish.. but is it a wish for herself or for the couple.. does she want him to remain monogomous or is that a choice she makes for herself. I am monogomous my primary partner is not he has a permanent secondary partner who provides him with the D/s relationship that I am by nature unable to.. I just dont find a whole lot of fun on the buckle end of a belt.. ah well... We are open to including a male into this at some point if that works out if not then so be it. But I made the choice to be monogomous for me .. she cant make it for him as well.. I think that is where the conflict comes.

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Post #: 10

RE: Polyquandary - 9/5/2005 8:24:46 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 823
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: smilezz

quote:

She very much wants a monogomous situation, where they can attend play events or bring other people in together. (Is this called swinging?) She doesn't want to date or build individual relationships with other men.

She can still be monogamous with him if that is 'her' want/need/desire. She does not have to date or build anything with other men either. I guess my question would be how much are they willing to communicate with each other and work this out? Are they willing to sit down and discuss boundries? constant reassurance if this is what they choose?
The reason i state this is that i live this...i know!.. i have been through this. I have stated many times in other threads about this too. Thorns and i have been together for close to 5 years now..........He plays with others, i do not. I am monogamous to Him only. We ARE the core to this relationship...that is never going to change.....no one will come between us...and yet, this works great for us. It took some time to get to this peace of knowing and acceptance. It was not always easy........but honestly...what's more important?
I do suggest as others have here........just be there for your friend. There truly is nothing you can do but listen and offer advice if she requests it. I wish them luck...and you too for being a friend.

quote:

a poly and mono just don't mix as a relationship. One or the other has to give up there desire or need ... short term it might work... it is not a situation that in my opinion has a long term potential.

I understand this is your opinion.........i am just here to state that it works and has worked for us. It can work for those that are seriously comitted to keeping that communication out on the table at all times.

~smilezz~

http://www.xeromag.com/fvmonopoly.html

when I state poly and mono - don't mix as relationship.. I am talking about a relationship itself, not as individuals. If One wants the relationship to be poly and the other wishes the relationship to be mono, well there is no compromise. It will not work, for they both want completely different things from the other to make that relationship work. However, as an inidividual a person can be monogamist to another and accepting of that person being a poly individual.

I think one has to look at what one wants and desires in both of themselves and their partner. An expectation of monogamy from a poly person is unrealistic and doomed to fail just as the reverse would be so. However, I can and do see where a monogamist individual is very accepting of their partners desire of multi-relationship... whatever the type of realationships are. So look not just at what you want... but what is it that you expect from your partner. I understood from the orginal post that the individaul want and expect a mono relationship with some room for play for of them, but not for poly relationship for herself or him.

so the question to the OP's friend - She wishes to be monogamist... but what does she expect from him... Monogamist as well or can he be poly?

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

(in reply to smilezz)

Post #: 11

RE: Polyquandary - 9/5/2005 9:04:41 PM

smilezz

Posts: 489
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline

quote:

when I state poly and mono - don't mix as relationship.. I am talking about a relationship itself, not as individuals. If One wants the relationship to be poly and the other wishes the relationship to be mono, well there is no compromise. It will not work, for they both want completely different things from the other to make that relationship work.

Thank you for clearing that up. I do understand a bit more now as to what you meant.

~smilezz~

_____________________________

"Please excuse my Sense of Justice...it's the only thing that saves You from the Slaughter"

"What you cannot enforce, do not command - Sophocles"

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 12

RE: Polyquandary - 9/6/2005 5:57:20 AM

ScooterTrash

Posts: 267
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

She very much wants a monogomous situation, where they can attend play events or bring other people in together.

quote:

He wants to continue in the style of polyamory where they each date and play with other people at their discretion as individuals.

This almost sounds like a contradiction in terms to me. She wants mono but doesn't, as she wants them to be able to bring others in on occasion? He wants to be poly but doesn't, as he doesn't want to form a bond as a group? Almost sounds like they want the same thing, to have a core group, but be able to "step out" as their needs arise, either as a couple or as individuals. I suggest their situation is neither mono or poly, but somewhere in the middle. In my opinion, dating or playing as individuals is likely not going to work as that is borderline on cheating, but if they can work out these outside interests as a couple, they may be able to satisfy their needs in one fatal swoop. Being in the middle may work for them if they can get their focus the same and quit trying to put it under one classification or the other. I guess what I'm saying is maybe the compromise isn't as tough as it sounds, perhaps they just need to "step out" as a pair, serious communication may be the ultimate key here. I'd never agree this is poly, by my definitions, but is certainly isn't mono either.

_____________________________

Scooter.....It's not the destination..it's the journey

(in reply to AbstractSavant)

Post #: 13

RE: Polyquandary - 9/6/2005 8:49:12 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 823
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash

quote:

She very much wants a monogomous situation, where they can attend play events or bring other people in together.
quote:

He wants to continue in the style of polyamory where they each date and play with other people at their discretion as individuals.
This almost sounds like a contradiction in terms to me. She wants mono but doesn't, as she wants them to be able to bring others in on occasion? He wants to be poly but doesn't, as he doesn't want to form a bond as a group? Almost sounds like they want the same thing, to have a core group, but be able to "step out" as their needs arise, either as a couple or as individuals. I suggest their situation is neither mono or poly, but somewhere in the middle. In my opinion, dating or playing as individuals is likely not going to work as that is borderline on cheating, but if they can work out these outside interests as a couple, they may be able to satisfy their needs in one fatal swoop. Being in the middle may work for them if they can get their focus the same and quit trying to put it under one classification or the other. I guess what I'm saying is maybe the compromise isn't as tough as it sounds, perhaps they just need to "step out" as a pair, serious communication may be the ultimate key here. I'd never agree this is poly, by my definitions, but is certainly isn't mono either.

Depends on your view of what Mongamist is? Having an Open relationship, does't mean one is Poly, but it also doesn't mean one isn't poly either. One can be monogamist with regards to an intimate relationship and still have play experiences with others. IE open relationship for play. Now one can define that as poly if the wish... but, personally an open relationship is significantly different than having a poly-relationship. My bottom denika has a open relationship with her Husband, but they are not poly. Meaning, they don't seek to incorporate another into their relationship that shares the priority, devotion and intimacy. Now, my two girls (alandra and kyra) and I are a poly relationship. We three are equally share the priority, devotion and intimacy of our relationship. The Three are one is what phrase I use. But, my poly-relationship is also open. In that, I am able to enjoy other play experiences of others and build a relationship of course in the process. But, the priority is obvious and clear to all those involved. Anyone coming into my life that expects to have a devoted and deeply intimate relationship would not only have to earn it from me, but from my two girls as well. labels aside... what is it they want out of the relationship with another involved? what is the connection? what is that persons priority to their life... how does that person compare to themself with regards to importance. My two girls (alandra and kyra) are of intensely equal to me, I could no easier make a distinction of their meaning and importance to me than I could seperate or prioritize my four children. However, as much as a I care and love denika, she is secondary to me. Just as I, alandra and kyra are secondary to her Husband. The relationships significance is understood clearly by all, it is discussed and expressed not just once, but often. We constantly validate this understanding directly and indirectly in what we say and do!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

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Post #: 14

RE: Polyquandary - 9/7/2005 8:54:41 AM

MsPurrmeow

Posts: 254
Joined: 10/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

She very much wants a monogomous situation, where they can attend play events or bring other people in together.

quote:

He wants to continue in the style of polyamory where they each date and play with other people at their discretion as individuals.

I'm wondering if I can clear this a little. I am a polyfidelitous person. I believe that anyone we get involved with is involved (although not necessarily sexually) with everyone in the family. For us, that's three, for them, it may be the two of them. No major steps in the relationship between any two are taken without everyone knowing and agreeing with it. It's about the "us", about the FAMILY and all of us together. If we (all of us) decide to get sexually involved with someone or go to a swing party, we go together. (Haven't done it, but that's the idea.) Our relationship decisions make or break US as a unit.

I have one partner who strongly believes that outside relationships are fun. He likes the "on the side" and "separate" from the family. He likes the excitement idea of having something all his own. I cannot fully understand it. If it's "on the side" or "outside relationship" it contributes nothing to the family as a whole. "On the side" takes away from not only the side-dish, but from us as a unit. It's only a small piece.

That being said, we are both, most definitely, still poly. It just goes to prove that "being poly" isn't enough to have in common. We need to know about each others ideas, goals, and what is at the CORE of the relationship that feeds each person.

What to do about it? Talk, a lot! and not only make choices and commitments to each other, but write them down. Work on wording and rewording the guidelines for relationships until there is a minimum of compromise and a lot of room for reward for both people. The relationship can still work if they are willing to work. If neither can see their way to understand each other's point of view and value their reasons for it, then there's not much left.

I'm not sure if that helped at all, but it's a dilemma that I see a lot, and one that affects my own life. Thank you AbstractSavant, for bringing up a good topic. Poly is very different from one individual to the next, and I think that gets glossed over far too often.

Purr

(in reply to AbstractSavant)

Post #: 15

RE: Polyquandary - 9/7/2005 2:49:50 PM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3610
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsPurrmeow
If it's "on the side" or "outside relationship" it contributes nothing to the family as a whole. "On the side" takes away from not only the side-dish, but from us as a unit. It's only a small piece.

That would be like my sister saying that her husbands love of motorbikes contributes nothing to their lives and takes away from the relationship.

The reality however is that motorbikes are his passion, something that he loves doing on his own, something that brings a lot of joy and happiness to his life, and thus allows him to have a fuller and deeper relationship with his wife.

No one in relationships have to ALWAYS do things together, whether its hobbies or people. A great person in the local community says she refuses to do "closed" poly relationships because to her it feels like just being monogamous with different people and she's not monogamous. I think if everyone is honest and as long as the hobby/person ISN'T taking energy away from the relationship (which it doesn't seem to be) then individual pursuits and passions should be welcomed and encouraged.

< Message edited by EmeraldSlave2 -- 9/7/2005 2:51:03 PM >

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)

Post #: 16

RE: Polyquandary - 9/7/2005 9:24:33 PM

raeanha

Posts: 38
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline

I believe I could easily be happily involved in a poly relationship, but I never have. I think the thing that could be hard for me would be insecurity about MY status, moreso than having issues with my partner playing with or caring about another. I wonder if your friend's wants might be tinged with that kind of insecurity. My conviction has also been that some straighforward reassurance, lots of good communication, and tons of affection would be the key in such a situation to keeping all concerned secure and happy.
In any case, what I wanted most to say is that, believe it or not.. a month is NOT much time at all, whether it be for a period of monogamy, or for decision making. There's nothing wrong with them taking time to continue to talk with each other and evolve within themelves to understand how it might work, or why it won't.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 17

RE: Polyquandary - 9/8/2005 5:57:04 PM

dognkitten9215

Posts: 7
Joined: 9/7/2005
Status: offline

I would have to agree with emeraldslave here. You can not force a Poyl realationship reguardless of how badly One wants to have His 2 or more. If the alpha is not a happy camper, and wants to be mono, and the Dom want's to be poly, and T/they have talked it over for the last month, then it sounds as though all matters and concerns have been addressed and it's time to kiss and say "fare the well in life dear friend".

Lord Darkstorm (a.k.a. Dog)

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 18

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