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ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures

i have wanted to make this post for quite awhile, and solicited some stories from girls here (without any responses *sigh*) so what follows is a combination of my experience and friendships with Sadists, etc.

1st: is He a Sadist? First and foremost, a Sadist is a Dom or Master (generally a Master). He has the qualities you'd look for in any Master: confidence, consideration, good manners, integrity, and so forth. A Sadist wil reveal His desires upfront and will actively be seeking a masochist girl. He will take a woman...any woman..to an erotic response to pain...with safe words..and not beyond that erotic place...but each time He will take her "higher" and T/their relationship will grow more and more s/m over time. In BDSM, no one is more honest with potential submissives and slaves than the true Sadist Master.

2nd: is He an abusive Man? Compared to the Sadistic Master, the abusive man hides his true intentions from women. His profile has very little information on it, so that he is free to "mold" himself into what he thinks any particular woman wants to hear. Once he has engaged a woman in conversation, he will be trying to guage the best time to begin the process of culling her from the herd and making her his personal punching bag. The 1st thing the abusive man wants is control/isolation of the woman. For example, having her make a new Yahoo nick and YIM that only he can access and requiring her to leave it on at all times; so she cannot IM with her friends. There are many, many "tricks". Forcing her to give him the password to her cell phone account online so he can monitor with whom she speaks. Etc. Once he feels control/isolation has been established, he will want her physically present (usually at her expense). From what i heard in TheLobby, the girl usually traveled to meet the man; a violation of an important safety rule; women should meet men on their home turf the 1st time. In any event, it may be a one-time event in which he savages her; or the beginning of a long-term relationship in which she becomes a battered woman but thinks she is a submissive.

Some other "cues" to look for:

He will not agree to a background check.

He will not give personal information that is verifiable, such as his employer's name and address.

He will not send a copy of his driver's license.

He wants you to sneak away to see him; he wants no one to know where you are while you are with him.

He will not tell you where you'll be staying while you are visiting him.

He asks you to end an important relationship, especially one with a man, such as a Mentor.

Most importantly, you feel a sense of unease about him.

3rd: Is he a married man?

First, a caveat. i am NOT referring to married men who reveal their married state and who form relationships with submissives or slaves alongside their marriages. i am well-aware of this phenomeon and do not pass judgment on it.

i am referring to married men who lie and claim to be single. These guys are a nuisiance. They are generally vanilla and are liars. They are not real Doms or Masters and they waste our time and in some cases, hurt our feelings. They usually are no threat to our well-being; quite the opposite; they rarely want to meet in r/l.

They are first and foremost liars, so if you start by asking "are you married?" some will be startled into being honest. Following that; if he only calls you on his cell; if he cannot call nights or weekends; if He cannot makes plans to meet you "at this time"; if he cannot give you his home address; etc., especially if you wonder "is he married?"; chances are very good -- he is married.

The information on this post is not intended as gospel; nor should anyone substitute my judgment for their own. In all events, A/anyone should consider a background check before entering a situation that puts them at risk; the check can be requested by the subject and handed over with the social security number redacted (blacked out).

My hope in writing this post is that someone -- or Someone -- will pause and say "that seems fishy to me" and act accordingly. My best wishes to E/everyone searching.

i also hope P/pl will add to the thread, posting T/their "cues" and W/we can pool O/our resources.

pinkpleasures

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ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures
1st: is He a Sadist? First and foremost, a Sadist is a Dom or Master (generally a Master). He has the qualities you'd look for in any Master: confidence, consideration, good manners, integrity, and so forth. A Sadist wil reveal His desires upfront and will actively be seeking a masochist girl. He will take a woman...any woman..to an erotic response to pain...with safe words..and not beyond that erotic place...but each time He will take her "higher" and T/their relationship will grow more and more s/m over time. In BDSM, no one is more honest with potential submissives and slaves than the true Sadist Master.

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2nd: is He an abusive Man? Compared to the Sadistic Master, the abusive man hides his true intentions from women. His profile has very little information on it, so that he is free to "mold" himself into what he thinks any particular woman wants to hear. Once he has engaged a woman in conversation, he will be trying to guage the best time to begin the process of culling her from the herd and making her his personal punching bag. The 1st thing the abusive man wants is control/isolation of the woman. For example, having her make a new Yahoo nick and YIM that only he can access and requiring her to leave it on at all times; so she cannot IM with her friends. There are many, many "tricks". Forcing her to give him the password to her cell phone account online so he can monitor with whom she speaks. Etc. Once he feels control/isolation has been established, he will want her physically present (usually at her expense). From what i heard in TheLobby, the girl usually traveled to meet the man; a violation of an important safety rule; women should meet men on their home turf the 1st time. In any event, it may be a one-time event in which he savages her; or the beginning of a long-term relationship in which she becomes a battered woman but thinks she is a submissive.

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He will not give personal information that is verifiable, such as his employer's name and address.

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He will not send a copy of his driver's license.

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He wants you to sneak away to see him; he wants no one to know where you are while you are with him.

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He asks you to end an important relationship, especially one with a man, such as a Mentor.

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i also hope P/pl will add to the thread, posting T/their "cues" and W/we can pool O/our resources.

pinkpleasures

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undefined

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thank you Faramir...I was going to make that same point...a Sadist doesn't need to even come close to being in the lifestyle...they just need that pleasure derived from the inflection of pain, in whatever degrees, to another....

MstrHellsFury

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(to the op) Everyone needs to be considered on a case by case basis.

This is why blanket statements, generalizations, and assumptions are a nasty trap.

Decide things from a broader point of view than a simple steorotype you have created,and you will do fine.

Gemeni

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As well, it's not necessarily taking someone to an erotic place. Many sadists enjoy knowing the person is in actual pain, NOT getting turned on, NOT getting into subspace, just there, taking their pain.

Emeraldslave2

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Use good sense, remember there's no need to rush, act like you think an independent adult person should act.

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Does he own it to her to explain himself? that he means in ways

they have not spoke of......Or is it the new subs responsiblity to ask those questions

and not take anything for granted........What would You think of a Master

that demanded that submission because she offered it not knowing what it entailed

she only thought she did? Would You consider this abuse?

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The problem with this advice is it's vague. It does not say; look in the living room; it says "LOOK". i find women are able to speak after the fact about "cues" that they deliberately ignored, partially because they seemed innocous or because the man held them in some sort of thrall or isolation. This was my purpose in beginning the thread. All of us would like to believe that it is sufficient to tell women (especially young ones) to behave responsibily and that would keep them safe.

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The problem is that it is impossible to give advice of this sort that is NOT vague. There are those who will get something out of submitting to pain, even if they hate ever freaking second of it. Abuse means different things to different people. I'm pretty sure there are things in my relationship that some of you would cover your eyes in horror over, but I don't find anything about it abusive. Those same things, others would laugh about and say "oh that....pfffft...nothin' to it".

Let's take an example that I've heard over and over is supposedly abusive. Isolation. For me, being isolated would not be abusive and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who feels that way.

I think you made some good points, but I feel it is impossible to make general and blanket statements that someone can use to identify an abuser. One person's abuser is another person's perfect owner, imo. Based on the things you have stated you look for in a dominant, there are many folks here that would be "abusive" in your eyes if you had to submit to them. Its just a matter of fit sometimes, although I realize this is a simplistic way of saying what I'm trying to say.


best regards,
fate

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If there's a better way, fate, i am surely open to it

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Generally, an abusive man very carefully calculates the first time he hits a woman..and it is not a savage beating, probably just a closed fist to her belly. She is shocked and begins making plans to leave. He shows up, contrite, making promises that nothing like that will ever happen again, treats her like a princess, begs for a second chance, etc., etc. And she's confused...and most women stay.

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The bottom line there though is consent. If someone is doing something to you, whether it be physically or mentally, that makes you feel like a victim, against your will...you need to take a long, hard look at your situation and take appropriate action. Abuse is not acceptable, in this lifestyle or out.

mistoferin

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But i take mistoferin's criticism to heart, and do not know exactly what we should be doing now to try to PREVENT abusive men from capturing submissives and slaves in the first place.

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ORIGINAL: mistoferin
I have seen (on these boards and in RL) those who are young making statements about how they have done such and such (such as meeting or playing with strangers for example) and it all turned out ok. These are dangerous statements and those of us who have been there and had it turn out "not so ok" know all too well how very much their perspective would change after such an event. I was young once too and I was not immune from that mentality. I viewed anyone trying to tell me different as being preachy or clueless. Some things only come with time.