Intolerance and judgementalism in the Lifestyle

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Intolerance and judgementalism in the Lifestyle - 2/15/2004 1:24:28 PM

dizzylizzy

Posts: 6
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline

Hi All

I am relatively new to the lifestyle and brand spanking new to collarme.

I have questions concerning what I perceive to be a level of intolerance that permeates the lifestyle. Maybe I am just reading it wrong but there seems to be a pervasice tendancy (in which I am probably now fully engaging with this post) to be really harsh and judgemental about just about everything. I don't think this applies to everyone as I have read lots of posts that are generally positive and constructive but there seems to be a much larger percentage of negative or judgemental or nasty posts in BDSM forums than on other places.

Some examples I have seen just in the last couple of weeks:

A group discussing ad nauseum whether to have another munch. Things got ugly really quickly and when someone said she was tired of reading posts about this, she was berated and accused of having deep psychological issues and "something to hide". (I have trouble picturing a second much a month as being the issue that puts one over the edge but what do I know?)

On here, a new Domme described a situation and was basically told she was a sub and not truly dominant. Maybe the poster was correct but it just felt like a snap judgement that was not well-grounded.

I have been told when I responded negatively or ignored emails asking me to sign a no-limits contract and fill out a questionnaire that I am not a true sub. I have been told that true subs don't have limits, blah blah blah. What the fuck, I don't remember ever holding myself up as a "true sub" whatever the hell that is, but I don't need someone who has never met me calling me a fake.

There is the ubiquitous presence of messages telling someone that they are not a true dom or true sub or true whatever simply because they behave differently than the poster doing the name calling. I am not talking about reprehensible behavior just different. There also seems to be some snobbery about total lifestyle immersion vs. dabbling or bedroom behavior. And while I can see that these are very different, I don't understand how one can make a value judgement on the other.

So finally my questions:

Am I just completely wrong in my perceptions here? Am I just too sensitive for this? I am not running off crying but some of the negativity does get noisome after a while.

Is it more common in online interactions? I have been to munches but conversations tend to stay pretty casual and I think it is harder to tell someone that they have issue or are not a true whatever to their face than via an email or post. Is it the anonymity that is causing it?

How do others handle it? Does it bother you?

Thanks,

liz

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RE: Intolerance and judgementalism in the Lifestyle - 2/15/2004 2:23:39 PM

Estring

Posts: 1266
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

dizzy, I think you are missing the point of the message board. The whole point is to discuss, agree, disagree or offer advice. In my opinion, the vast majority of posts are just that. There are some personal attacks, but I think those are rare. We who post just have strong opinions usually. Lol.
I recall the posting you mentioned where the writer suggested the Domme was actually submissive. I didn't feel the writer was being insulting. They were just stating their opinion. Which I disagreed with btw. And I have already posted in another section my thoughts on judging.
Anyway, I welcome you to Collarme, and I look forward to reading any future posts from you.

(in reply to dizzylizzy)

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RE: Intolerance and judgementalism in the Lifestyle - 2/15/2004 4:41:30 PM

EStrict

Posts: 730
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline

Hi Liz,

I agree with EString. One problem I have noticed though is that people don't say things like *in my opionion*, *by my definitions*, *by the standards in my life*, or anything that shows it's just in their opinion.... and of course, as we all know, opinions are like assholes. All have them, and some smell worse than others :)

EString had mentioned in another post that people as humans make judgements (don't recall where offhand), which is also true. So, when you see someone being judgemental with comments like *you are not a domme*, *you are not a sub*, *you're kink is just bedroom and that makes you a player* or anything else that fits, remember,,, no matter if the person posting considers themselves a god or goddess, dominant, submissive, slave or anything else, add a grain of salt, throw it in the opinion pot, and finish seasoning to taste.

Sandy

< Message edited by EStrict -- 2/16/2004 9:48:03 AM >

(in reply to Estring)

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RE: Intolerance and judgementalism in the Lifestyle - 2/15/2004 8:53:13 PM

belongtoyou

Posts: 170
Joined: 1/21/2004
Status: offline

Dizzy,

I think Sandy got this right!

ORIGINAL: EStrict

and of course, as we all know, opinions are like assholes. All have them, and some smeel worse than others :)

add a grain of salt, throw it in the opinion pot, and finish seasoning to taste.

The other thing to remember is not to take things too personally; others opinions, (especially from those you don't know) should not have that profound an affect on you.

it takes all kinds....

best wishes,

Rain

(in reply to EStrict)

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RE: Intolerance and judgementalism in the Lifestyle - 2/26/2004 11:12:06 AM

sweetieboop

Posts: 92
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Liz,
I'm new and learning also. I've found that everyones opinions and definitions vary so much. Also, IMO, the people that are judgemental and nasty, are the ones that really don't have an understanding or respect of what the lifestyle truly is. I find that some people think that because they call themselves a Dom/Domme, it gives them the right to just be mean. In any case, I think that you can't take to heart what people you don't even know are saying otherwise you'll be a mess. As far as I'm concerned, as long as I am comfortable with what I'm doing or saying and MY Dom is happy, that's all that really matters. Yes, I ask for advise and information from different people, but if I get a negative response or read a negative post, I just disregard it and move on. Actually, I feel sorry for people that can't express themselves in a constructive and helpful way because there is a reason why they are so bitter. As for telling someone that they are not what they claim to be, you can't do that because of the fact that there are so many definitions and interpretations. What I think a sub is might not be what you think it is. So again, as long as you are comfortable with it and the person you are with is satisfied, I think that's all that you should pay attention to (as far as negativity goes). Good luck in your search and I wish you fun and happiness. :)

(in reply to dizzylizzy)

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RE: Intolerance and judgementalism in the Lifestyle - 3/2/2004 7:52:23 PM

philurdesires

Posts: 15
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

dizzylizzy - your perceptions are right on, but the fact remains that there intelligent people and those not so intelligent, good people and bad people, as well as the traditional and the weird freaky types in this lifestyle, just as there are in any vanilla setting, or other alternative lifestyle. Those of us that have been in the lifestyle a while get as aggravated at people acting like assholes as you do, and although we are suppose to be the tolerant ones, granted, sometimes we aren't so tolerate. However, if you find that you genuinely belong in this lfestyle, your skin and feelings will eventually toughen, and you will realize that you have no other choice but to learn to tolerate and accept others as best as you can, which is really no different than any other group; is it?

(in reply to dizzylizzy)

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RE: Intolerance and judgementalism in the Lifestyle - 3/3/2004 3:20:20 AM

Voltare

Posts: 467
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline

I'm going to play the unpopular (go figure) post, and say that the phenomanon you're experiencing has more to do with 'where' you are, then the actual people. I love friendly conversation and debate, in public or private. I also find people tend to be less polite behind a computer or chat nick, then they would ever be in real time. Most munches I've attended have had very little in the way of intolerance, but they are also rather lacking in 'deeper' conversation. By contrast, the more animated (but always respectful) conversations I've enjoyed real time, took place at a private residence, amongst people who knew each other rather well.

In the end, please try not to judge all who enjoy BDSM or D/s based on the antics of Horny Net Geeks and cyber-Dom/me/sub/slaves. It's a whole other world out there.

Stephan

_____________________________

[GEEK] Me [/GEEK]
"There is always some madness in love, but there is also always some reason in madness" - Nietzsche
[image]http://img2.exs.cx/img2/7251/voltare-death.gif[/image]

(in reply to philurdesires)

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RE: Intolerance and judgementalism in the Lifestyle - 3/22/2004 3:46:13 PM

CoolScentDomme

Posts: 10
Joined: 3/18/2004
Status: offline

Gosh here I go again....
I find the we are all judging someone in the world.But W/we have chosen to live the life we do.I get all sorts of coments good and bad, simply because I do not hide who and what I am.Yes My sexlife is private, but those that know Me know how I live with My sub.So Im judged by everyone all the time.So what!
Look at the life we chose, who are W/we to judge one another? If you don't wanna sign a contract thats your choice.They are not legal anyway.

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a good sub ...is a bound and gagged sub

(in reply to Voltare)

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RE: Intolerance and judgementalism in the Lifestyle - 3/22/2004 5:41:30 PM

ShadowHwk

Posts: 156
Joined: 1/5/2004
From: Huntsville, Alabama
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dizzylizzy

Hi All

I am relatively new to the lifestyle and brand spanking new to collarme.

I have questions concerning what I perceive to be a level of intolerance that permeates the lifestyle. Maybe I am just reading it wrong but there seems to be a pervasice tendancy (in which I am probably now fully engaging with this post) to be really harsh and judgemental about just about everything. I don't think this applies to everyone as I have read lots of posts that are generally positive and constructive but there seems to be a much larger percentage of negative or judgemental or nasty posts in BDSM forums than on other places.
-snippage-

I have been told when I responded negatively or ignored emails asking me to sign a no-limits contract and fill out a questionnaire that I am not a true sub. I have been told that true subs don't have limits, blah blah blah. What the fuck, I don't remember ever holding myself up as a "true sub" whatever the hell that is, but I don't need someone who has never met me calling me a fake.
-snippage-

liz

liz,

I am going to address the two points above in reverse order. The one where you have been told your "Not a true sub" because you did/didn't "do x y or z"; I've seen this as a common reaction of someone who is feeling rejected. Rather than think that they are "not your perfect match" they choose to put it on you. In my opinion, the best thing you can do with these kinds of judgements is simply ignore them, block the user from emailing you if they persist.

Point two; Folks have strong opinions. They voice those opinions here. Some of those folks have a bit of tunnel vision and are positive that their way is the ONLY way - and for them it probably is. But there are as many variations as there are people in this lifestyle. Find what works for you, and don't worry about the judgements of others. Sometimes reading those posts leads me to realize that my vision of things is a bit too narrow - and when I realize that I think I grow a bit. But like everyone else - I too can be a bit judgemental. Working on that one... every day.

Peace and Light
ShadowHwk

(in reply to dizzylizzy)

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RE: Intolerance and judgementalism in the Lifestyle - 3/23/2004 2:31:13 PM

iwillserveu

Posts: 1641
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

As one who has been told he is not really a sub, and not really a "real" man, you have to consider the source. A message board will have some judgmental posts because (surprise!) people are judgmental.

I've been to vanilla message boards, and the assholes = opinions thing holds true everywhere, I'm afraid. (Yes it is funny that people who claim to be looking for acceptance would be just as judgmental. Like the Pilgrims flight from religious persecution then defining heresy as a crime. [The first permanent building in Plymouth was a jail.

])

Oh, welcome and may you not be stoned except by those that have not sinned.

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When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to dizzylizzy)

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RE: Intolerance and judgementalism in the Lifestyle - 3/23/2004 6:36:13 PM

MizSuz

Posts: 1416
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: iwillserveu

Oh, welcome and may you not be stoned except by those that have not sinned.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!

Too funny

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Suz

In honor of the impending ski season: If you're not livin' on the edge you're takin' up too much space!

(in reply to iwillserveu)

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RE: Intolerance and judgementalism in the Lifestyle - 4/20/2004 1:29:23 PM

MistressDREAD

Posts: 2326
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

The reality be it Alternate Living or Vanilla living
online a person is free to be what and who and
the way they always wanted to be but in real life
could not, would not, should not be because society
as well as peers hold ALL of US down in sum kind of
restraint. Here We are all able to be free with out
recorse! Well except for Mistress Perverse whom had
her rights revoked by the Hierarcy present....looks up
to the God and Goddess Mod and ModII and ~smiles~
REALLY big. holding up My imaginary wrists showing
both My rules here restraints are still in place ~giggles~

_____________________________

♥I only need 4 kinds of Animals in My life♥
♥A Jaguar in My garage♥ ♥A Mink on My back♥
♥A few Lions in My bed♥ ♥A Jackass to pay for it all♥

♥~smiles evily~♥

(in reply to MizSuz)

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Post #: 12