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Fragile subs - 3/18/2005 5:58:19 PM   
onceburned


Posts: 2081
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline 		I just read an article about this topic... and its something I had never considered before.

Some subs send mixed messages about what they want, or are erratic in their reponses, or fall apart with hyper-self-criticism. And the good dominant then has to patch them up - putting in time and energy to make sure that their sub stays "healthy".

I have never thought about subs being either fragile or resilient and I wonder what the experiences of people in this forum have been.

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RE: Fragile subs - 3/18/2005 7:00:17 PM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		subs are pepole, some are fragile, some are resiliant, some are in the middel. But then there are many that are not so easy to put in a box, some pepole can be in tears over a sad news report or that the cake they worked on did not turn out well, but are generaly healthy pepole, becouse whatever happen, big or smal, they cry and bounce back. Others seam resiliant, but takes it all in and eventualy just fall apart. Some can be fragile to some sort of things, some other others.

For me, one of the things that atracts me to D/s is that it is more easy to be self asured when the only one you realy have to impress and do good for is your Master and yourself.

(in reply to onceburned)
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RE: Fragile subs - 3/18/2005 7:48:36 PM   
areed30


Posts: 1
Joined: 3/5/2005
Status: offline 		hi my name is april and i was wondering how do be a good sub for my master

(in reply to nella)
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RE: Fragile subs - 3/18/2005 7:56:07 PM   
MsSilvie


Posts: 248
Joined: 2/4/2005
Status: offline 		Subs are all individuals, but to be honest, you don't have to look far to find the fragile variety. A lot of times, unfortunately, this fragile sub tries to make it the dominant responsible for their well being.

You really can't fix someone, or patch them up, no matter how much you wish you could. You can be supportive, and encouraging. But you can't take responsibility for someone else's emotional health. It does a disservice to them if they never learn to be responsible for themselves.

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RE: Fragile subs - 3/19/2005 12:04:00 AM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 2933
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: onceburned
Some subs send mixed messages about what they want, or are erratic in their reponses, or fall apart with hyper-self-criticism. And the good dominant then has to patch them up - putting in time and energy to make sure that their sub stays "healthy".

I don't know how fragile they are, but I know a whole lot of them have serious issues when it comes to reconciling words with deeds...

The subs who want me for force them into a decicion of weather to stay dating the vanilla girfriend, while trying to connect with a Domina, the subs who want me to make the decision of when they should tell wife they want a divorce, etc... I never feed into that BS long enough to find out if they mean to do what they say, but it sure is a pain in my derriere.
Is That off topic? Am Sorry, I think I'm ranting/venting, M

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"touching was and still is and will always be the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

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RE: Fragile subs - 3/19/2005 6:36:48 AM   
painbrat


Posts: 1
Joined: 1/23/2005
Status: offline 		Resiliant or fragile is obviously relative. I once made the mistake of playing with a Domme that was in experienced which led to a very bad experience with a cane. It took me a fairly long time before I would even be in the same room with someone with a cane. Now, because my Mistress and I took the time to learn each other, I LOVE the cane and beg for it. As this lifestyle is 90% mental, fragility and resilience is dependant on where anyones mind is at.

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RE: Fragile subs - 3/19/2005 7:08:42 AM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		i have a phobia against needels, if anyone used that on me i would fall apart. i do agree that a Dom do not have total resposibility for their sub, but often they do have some resposibility. They agree to be the boss, the guide and so on of the sub, then somtimes they also have to be protector and one that can give loving enchrinshment and yes, also one that somtimes have to pick up the pises.

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RE: Fragile subs - 3/19/2005 8:39:37 AM   
onceburned


Posts: 2081
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig
I know a whole lot of them have serious issues when it comes to reconciling words with deeds...

The subs who want me for force them into a decicion of weather to stay dating the vanilla girfriend, while trying to connect with a Domina, the subs who want me to make the decision of when they should tell wife they want a divorce, etc... M


From what you mentioned I would guess that these guys are not willing to take responsibility for their own lives. If they can't own up to their own decisions, how are they going to cope with the pressures of serving?

Are these guys fragile subs? I dunno... like you, I would think they are flawed subs and wouldn't expect a domme to get become involved with them (unless they -really- like trouble).

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RE: Fragile subs - 3/19/2005 9:20:20 AM   
GddssBella


Posts: 143
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline 		G'afternoon all!

This lifestyle seems to attract all the broken toys, lol. Which is ok, there's a place for everyone & their kinks. We just seem to get more than our share.

A good dominant will see to the care of a sub during a scene. Once outside though, their well being is their own affair. Each adult must be accountable for themselves. To place that much responsibility on the dominant's head would be presumptuous. People into bdsm are simply wired differently than the rest, to varying degrees. Some just have frayed cables. Heck, some are completely unplugged. {chuckling}

I've experienced these "fragile" sorts in the past all too often. I give them a wide berth. There's enough on my own plate that I need not involve myself with a hopeless situation. There are plenty more people out there with the fortitude to stand alone & take care of themselves in a productive manner. These are the folks I gravitate towards. These are the friends that I make. We just happen to discuss the pros or cons about how to beat the stuffings out of each other rather than the latest poor loser on American Idol.

quote:

You really can't fix someone, or patch them up, no matter how much you wish you could. You can be supportive, and encouraging. But you can't take responsibility for someone else's emotional health. It does a disservice to them if they never learn to be responsible for themselves.
Amen Silvie.

Stay safe all, play nice, & share your toys w/ others.....





Bella

< Message edited by GddssBella -- 3/19/2005 9:21:52 AM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to onceburned)
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RE: Fragile subs - 3/19/2005 9:44:39 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 3240
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Montréal - Canada
Status: offline
quote:

I have never thought about subs being either fragile or resilient and I wonder what the experiences of people in this forum have been.


I personally tend to stay away from fragile subs. I've met my share, have gotten involved with a few. It isn't a good match with me. I know this is contrary to the way many people regard the D/s lifestyle, but I don't particularly feel that it is my job to make a submissive a better person. I am not attracted to the vulnerable, though I will find a strong person's vulnerabilities endearing.

I realise that we all have vulnerabilities, dominants & submissives alike. We all have issues to work out and sore spots. I do however believe that it is up to each individual to take care of their own issues. Sure we can lean on one another. Sure we can be empathic and helpful. Exploration with a partner is cool. I believe that I have grown as a person from my interactions with them. I know others have grown as a result of being with me. But there is a limit. I'm not a psychologist and I don't pretend to be one. Some stuff I won't touch with a ten-foot pole.

- LA

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RE: Fragile subs - 3/19/2005 5:39:46 PM   
GentleLady


Posts: 356
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline 		I had not thought of it that way either onceburned. I usually think of the submissives as being high or low maintenance but I think that is very different from what what you are describing.

I know some people I would classify as fragile and there is no way I would have a submissive who is fragile emotionally. That is too much work and would leave Me no time to live My own life. As LadyAngelika pointed out, we all have issues of some kind and the support we give can be invaluable. I am ultimately responsible for My own emotional health and the decisions I make affect that. I am not qualified to be responsible for someone else's emotional health. A strict rule that counsellors/social workers/etc learn is that they cannot counsel members of their own family or someone close to them (ie. their submissive). It is counter-productive.

Gentle Lady

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All things are possible to those who have patience, try, and are willing to learn.

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RE: Fragile subs - 3/29/2005 8:47:03 PM   
deronik


Posts: 2
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		Hrm...Im a male sub im not fragile that’s for sure. I'm not very feminine...that's also for sure.

(in reply to GentleLady)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Fragile subs - 3/30/2005 3:19:19 AM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 634
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

hi my name is april and i was wondering how do be a good sub for my master


Hi April and welcome to the boards. There is no "right" answer to your question, I would suggest that if you have specific questions you could consider starting a new thread in the Ask a Master forum, or even in the General BDSM Discussion forum. It's really easy to do, at the top left side of the page you'll see a button that says New Post. Aside from that the only advice I think any of us could give you would to be read some of the threads and talk to your Master. Communication is very important. Never be afraid to ask questions.

Jewel

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ShiftedJewel of PhoenixRisen

(in reply to areed30)
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RE: Fragile subs - 3/30/2005 11:20:22 AM   
sissymaidlola


Posts: 480
Joined: 3/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

You really can't fix someone, or patch them up, no matter how much you wish you could.

No, Ma'am, sissy has to agree ... a mere Domme or Mistress cannot do that. Only a Wizard can fix and patch someone up! So are You ready to come with sissy, Ms Silvie ?

We're off to see the Wizard, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz.
You'll find he is a whiz of a Wiz! If ever a Wiz! there was.
If ever oh ever a Wiz! there was The Wizard of Oz is one because,
Because, because, because, because, because.
Because of the wonderful things he does.
We're off to see the Wizard. The Wonderful Wizard of Oz

Respectfrilly Yours,

sissy maid lola

P.S. The attachment is a photo of lola, age 8. What do You think, Ms Silvie, was sissy cute or what ? Eat your heart out, Dorothy <giggles> ...


Thumbnail Image


Attachment (1)

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If i don't seem submissive to You, it may be because i'm NOT submissive to You.

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RE: Fragile subs - 4/3/2005 10:37:42 PM   
Westernboy2534


Posts: 4
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline 		Yes there are fragile subs out there. But the situation is made worse when they run into Doms and Dommes who think that correction is accomplished by yelling, screaming, berating and making a sub feel like they are stupid. And it has nothing to do with taking responsibility in one's life. They just simply assume that when something is done wrong in a given situation, the sub does not take responsibilty over their entire life. The Dom or Domme needs to look at the entire picture, not just the terrain in which they find themselves deployed at the time. The Doms and Dommes who complain about subs do not take the time to consider what they invest in a submissive. If you invest something good in a sub, you will get a good return. If not, well, you get what you deserve. There are Doms and Dommes who see this and they are good examples of the lifestyle and those who do not give the lifestyle a bad name and are bad representatives. Just one opinion to consider.

(in reply to GddssBella)
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RE: Fragile subs - 4/4/2005 10:24:14 AM   
MistressJude


Posts: 19
Joined: 1/8/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline 		I've come across many that could be termed "fragile." In fact, the two that I'm working with at the moment could be called that. One grew up being completely dependent on people because she had grand mal seizures. So, as an adult (divorced and with two kids) she still finds herself needing others to live her life. She refuses to get second opinions from better doctors even though the ones she's with now mess with her medication so drastically I'm actually afraid for her. She'll never take anyone's advice and finds 'excuses' why she can't do things, even to me. She keeps her home barely above squaller level and is constantly fighting off child services and fighting to get welfare and benefits instead of using that energy to better her life. When I stepped in, I thought I could help but she transferred everything onto me where it got to the point that I was micromanaging her life and if I said something was wrong or why didn't she do something it usually brought on tears and am incredible sob story... It wound up draining so much of me.

The second is far stronger in appearance. She was forced to be self-relient at a very early age and had to fight through life the whole way. But once you get passe the bravado you find someone who is terrified of change or giving over even the tiniest bit of control. And not even "control" per se, but more along the lines of 'sharing the burden.' Even if it is for a better way of life. She'll either burst into tears or get into a huge fight.

Both of them have me at a loss, but I made a committment to both and hope that, against the odds, I may be able to make a difference in their lives. Still, I'd say they're both 'fragile.'

_____________________________

Mistress Jude
While I might not be your Domme I do expect some modicum of respect and I'll return the same.

(in reply to Westernboy2534)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Fragile subs - 4/4/2005 10:37:07 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 960
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: onceburned

I just read an article about this topic... and its something I had never considered before.

Some subs send mixed messages about what they want, or are erratic in their reponses, or fall apart with hyper-self-criticism. And the good dominant then has to patch them up - putting in time and energy to make sure that their sub stays "healthy".

I have never thought about subs being either fragile or resilient and I wonder what the experiences of people in this forum have been.


Everyone has vulnerabilities -- both femdoms and subs. Aftercare and good communication are key for working through any post-scene confusion or wild emotions, and this is to be expected.

What frustrates me are subs that are clearly ambivalent about their desires -- after a scene, they get really into this huge self-loathing and disgust with themselves. These are the types of subs that also throw away all their toys over and over again and say they are not going to do bdsm again, only to go buy everything a few months later.

These subs are impossible to "fix." You spend hours and hours consoling them (and forget about getting any aftercare for the domme, she's on her own) and put them back together, then two weeks later they call and tell you they were wrong, and they DO want to be a sub and need to play again. What a nightmare!

This is a huge headtrip for the femdom because she feels totally guilty for playing with a guy who is now sitting there after the scene saying he is digusted and hates himself. Then you have to give a pyschotherapy session on why bdsm is not dysfunctional. It's a huge black hole of insecurity that is impossible to fill, no matter what.

Then when you say you don't want to play with this person again when they call back a few weeks later, they go into a depression about how unworthy they are, etc.

I think this kind of break down after a scene is not that uncommon for a first-time sub, and I tend to expect some sort of an emotional set of fireworks when it's done, sometimes laced with confusion/ambivalence that can be worked through. But when a sub with some experience and understanding of his desires does this and shows that it is a trend for him, I have to stay away.

It's hard to tell ahead of time if a sub is going to be this way, because he won't confess to you "Oh yeah, I usually throw away all my toys twice a year and tell myself I'm sick..." because he's on his quest to get his BDSM fix and that's his priority.

Akasha

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http://www.akashaweb.com
AUDIO TRAINING Starts Feb. 22!** Relationship Help

(in reply to onceburned)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Fragile subs - 4/6/2005 4:58:43 PM   
MistressJude


Posts: 19
Joined: 1/8/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline 		Most people I've come across call this MMS or Monday Morning Syndrome. It can actually result in some serious issues for both Dom/me and sub alike and can be experienced by both. Some legal troubles have even sprouted up because of it. This is something to take seriously and, unfortunatley, there aren't any easy "outreach" places to go to/call when one starts to experience this. Best we can do is watch our backs and make the best judgment calls we can and try to help each other through tough times.

Then again, you just have your run of the mill folks who just have baggage or other emotional issues that cause them to play games or become so wishy-washy.

_____________________________

Mistress Jude
While I might not be your Domme I do expect some modicum of respect and I'll return the same.

(in reply to AAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 18
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