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Breath Control - 5/14/2004 6:03:21 AM   
atlbonddom


Posts: 1
Joined: 2/17/2004
Status: offline 		What techniques and experiences have subs had with this aspect of BDSM that they would like to share?
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RE: Breath Control - 5/14/2004 11:38:49 AM   
proudsub


Posts: 3896
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

What techniques and experiences have subs had with this aspect of BDSM that they would like to share?


Only what i have seen on tv about the ones who have died from it.

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proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .


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RE: Breath Control - 5/14/2004 1:22:41 PM   
schiava


Posts: 16
Joined: 4/25/2004
Status: offline 		Greetings.... this slave has limited experience in such, but finds it is something she rather enjoys. Not so much perhaps the physical aspect of it, but the control One has... *smiles*... He decides when and if she will be allowed to breath and how much.. mmm .. lol.. she loved it! With the limited experience, she has had plastice around her head, a hold being poked at His will, His hands placed over her mouth while His fingers held her nose and... *grins*.. her favorite.. while she was "servicing Him orally", He held her nose.. god what a turn on that was! Know it's not much to share, but she shared what she had.. hope this helps.
Best Wishes,
~schiava

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RE: Breath Control - 5/14/2004 1:32:56 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 1290
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		I have seen some of this and it appears to be very enjoyable to those involved, but I have no interest in learning/doing it myself. Various Ju Jutsu holds have similar effects, and I suggest that anybody who wishes to engage in breath play get fully CPR certified and learn how to do it right for the safety of one's partner.

_____________________________

"Why am I surrounded by fricking idiots?" Dr. Evil

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle, 44th Vice President of the United States

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RE: Breath Control - 5/18/2004 3:15:21 AM   
original_sin


Posts: 13
Joined: 2/22/2004
Status: offline 		Did I hear the siren song of my 2 favourite words .... 'breath play' echoing through the fora? ..

Now its a little difficult for me to say exactly where the hands go etc as I usually have my eyes rolled back in my head in bliss by that point. 2 methods that I had had used. 1. Is to do a choke hold sort of around the throat and block off the airway by applying gentle pressure. I like this one as its a gradual loss of air and my parter seems to like it as he can feel my breath rattling past his hands and feel me struggling. 2. A hand over the mouth and nose. That is a sudden loss of air and you can generally sometimes get air still.

Never done bag over the head or another item around the throat/face. I would only ever let them do it 'hands on' so they can control the pressure etc.

Blessed be ..

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~ Lori Petty in Tank Girl

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RE: Breath Control - 5/20/2004 5:23:04 PM   
biworship


Posts: 5
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		my Mistress likes to use an egg vibrator, while she tortures my nipples and deprives me of breath. when she lets me breath, she blows into the device herself. i only breath Her used air until She cums.

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RE: Breath Control - 5/20/2004 6:20:49 PM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1416
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I've used cpr masks on people. They have an air inflated pad around the edges that can get a good seal if the bottom doesn't have a lot of facial hair and only require putting your palm across the hole with enough effort to maintain the seal. The bottom can exhale but it only serves to snug the fit and prevent inhalation.

Yes, they fight and it enables them to get the little bit of air here and there, but not enough unless I allow it.

Yummy.

_____________________________

Suz

In honor of the impending ski season: If you're not livin' on the edge you're takin' up too much space!

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RE: Breath Control - 5/20/2004 7:30:37 PM   
ShadeDiva


Posts: 999
Joined: 3/31/2004
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline 		I tend to agree with Jay Wiseman's opinions regarding breath play.

You can't control it, you can't predict when things go wrong, and when they do, you have very little time to do anything, if you even can, and you can do it a hundred times and then pow! bad bad bad mojo.

When it comes to holding a throat - I've learned that very few people actually know how to do so where the concern of crushing things isn't an issue, and I've learned that 99% of folks that say they DO know how ... actually DON'T.

For me actually physically using the throat to control air is dangerous and fool-hardy, no matter how hot it might be - the risk for something going horribly bad isn't worth the hot factor. Sorry but a corpse or trip to the ER would really bring me down. I'm am weird in the fact that yes, just because it might be intense or hot doesn't automatically mean I ought to or will go there if the risk is too great - I view that as being responsible with my charges, again, I'm a weirdo. LOL.

That being said, there are ways to do breath play I will dabble in, and wghen it comes to mind fucks, yeah I'll *say* or lead someone to *think* I'd do something like that - but I ain't going to *really* remotely jeopardize their life or their health or their brain.

For me breath control is far more about having control over someone's air intake, rather than actually doing it - but hey I'm weird in that manner too. I tend to find that my view is unusual in that I believe that because I have the power to do something is enough - I don't actually *have* to do something to get the concept across that I am in control of a function, the mere fact that I *have* control is enough. Seems to work for those I scene with as well.

I tend to view that one is far more powerful when they don't need to *use* their power to substantiate, validate, or make known that something in in their control or power, and that the mere fact it *is* in their complete control makes them far more powerful than if they felt the need to use it just to show someone they *could*.

But again ... I'm weird.

LOL

~ShadeDiva

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RE: Breath Control - 5/20/2004 9:42:35 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 3896
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

I tend to view that one is far more powerful when they don't need to *use* their power to substantiate, validate, or make known that something in in their control or power, and that the mere fact it *is* in their complete control makes them far more powerful than if they felt the need to use it just to show someone they *could*.


Too bad more people don't think like that, for example the prison guards in Iraq.

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proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .


(in reply to ShadeDiva)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Breath Control - 5/20/2004 10:24:59 PM   
ShadeDiva


Posts: 999
Joined: 3/31/2004
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline 		The fact is that the majority of people will abuse power when they get it - and quite often never even see that they are doing so.

They will rationalize it, make excuses, invent reasons.

There *should* have been many folks joining their voices togther saying this is NOT okay!

However, they fell onto excuses ... Im following orders; Everyone else is doing it; Everyone will hate me for being a whistle blower; Its war, this is what happens; They must have a reason; etc etc etc. It;'s just easier to follow the herd than it is to stand against the tide. Humans are naturally lazy. Doing the right thing is most often not the easy thing to do. So they choose the easy way and create and rationalize why it's okay.

In the end, it's about abusing one's power and finding reasons why you can live with it while doing something you KNOW isn't the *right* thing to do.

But enough of politics, lol.

Humans don't tend to look at the big picture, they see what affects them and their immediate people they love. It feels good so it must be okay. Sure it's fun to be sadistic and mean and yes it's even fun to hurt someone at times, but when you choose to do that and who you choose to do it to, and how you choose to do that and who you allow to have power over you s you allow THEM to define what is right and wrong for you - those are OUR choices that we all make everyday.

In regards to the prisoners - you couldn't have made me do any of that. I'd have preferred to be courtmartialed and sent to prison rather than go against MY ethics and morals. Yeah it wouldn't be nice and it wouldn't be easy but it would have been the RIGHT thing to do, so that's what I would have done - more matter how painful it might have been for me.

NO one has the power to make me act against my codes - I ALWAYS have a choice. Just might not be pretty choices.

~ShadeDiva

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RE: Breath Control - 5/21/2004 3:58:56 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 1290
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

For me actually physically using the throat to control air is dangerous and fool-hardy


5 or so pounds pressure per square inch will crush the human larynx causing fairly quick suffocation and death. I believe the only way around this is a tracheotomy.

Additionally, the brain is a greedy organ and when deprived of oxygen for a mere few seconds (pressure on the arteries) the person will black out and the process of anoxia and the attendant brain damage starts to occur. Brain damage really doesnt heal and has unpredictable outcomes and sequelae.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"Why am I surrounded by fricking idiots?" Dr. Evil

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle, 44th Vice President of the United States

(in reply to ShadeDiva)
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RE: Breath Control - 5/21/2004 6:08:29 AM   
stormiKnightBEAR


Posts: 267
Joined: 3/14/2004
Status: offline 		Greetings,

This slave has several Leather Brothers and Sisters into breath play.
However, the person that is controlling or *taking down* down, is always
an experienced med trained person.

This slave experienced it for the first time about 3 yrs ago. Have only
done it one time in a very controlled surround with people that would
be trusted literally with the slave's life. It is a wild sensation, almost like
a ......best way to describe it is this....... while being scared to try it, curiosity
got the best of this slave and she decided to try it. After a momentary almost
passing out, the pressure was released and the deep breath naturally inhaled.
As this slave opened her eyes it was like............the sun coming up in such an
erray of colors it just washed over you with brightness.

This slave no longer does breath play because it is a source of concern for
Master, and the promise of never allowing anything or anyone to give her
those feelings except for HIM.

The thing to remember is that while it's about controlling, it's first and foremost
about SAFETY.

The thread about crushing one's larnyx is right. However, the proper way
to do it is to never allow the pressure to be there. All of it comes from using
the arteries to the left and right of the throat under the jaw line. NEVER is
any type of rope or scarf used around the throat!!!!

While this slave enjoyed the experience, again remember she would allow
only one person to do it. He's very experienced and teaches at many BDSM
functions on the safety of playing and most importantly the preparation for
the UNEXPECTED to happen.

Anyone considering this needs to know about their play partner....
are they on meds? prescriptions or otherwise.....are they epileptic?
do they have asthma? ........and the list goes on.

If anyone would like more info, please feel free to contact this slave
at [email protected]. It would be the slaves pleasure to
forward your letter to the slave's leather brother who teaches this.

You can also attend seminars on it at NLA-Dallas BEYOND VANILLA
as well as SOUTHPLAINS LEATHERFEST in Dallas.

BEYOND VANILLA XIV is October 22-24, 2004 in Dallas.
Info maybe found at www.nla-dallas.org/beyondvanilla

SOUTHPLAINS LEATHERFEST is in FEB 2005 in Dallas.

be well,
stormi
property of Master Bear

_____________________________

The proudly owned white silk slave of Master KnightStorm Bear ([email protected])

(in reply to atlbonddom)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Breath Control - 5/21/2004 5:22:23 PM   
topcat


Posts: 1013
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Long Island
Status: offline 		I do it quite a bit of breathplay, to varying degrees.

On of my particular variations is not actually 'breath paly' at all. It is the Vagus/Carotid compression, Which if held long enough will reder a subject unconcios, but if allpied only for a second or two, will result in a rather pleasant rush with a bit of spacyness in most subjects, and will almost instantly calm an agitated indivual. Oddly enough, it also cures hiccups, which makes for a great bar trick (funny the reations you get- some people immediatly find it sexy, some ask if you sre a doctor or chiropractor [no, actully, I am a Sadist....]).

While breath control can result in respotroy arrest, It's a bit safer than it's rep in the new PC scene.

Stay warm,
Lawrence

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-there is no remission without blood-

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RE: Breath Control - 5/21/2004 11:18:54 PM   
GoddessMarissa


Posts: 240
Joined: 4/10/2004
From: Las Vegas NV
Status: offline 		I personally love breath play, but I dont think someone should practice this unless they have had education on anatomy and physiology. Before this is done to anyone there should be an interview on how well there health is.

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RE: Breath Control - 5/22/2004 7:46:11 AM   
ShadeDiva


Posts: 999
Joined: 3/31/2004
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline 		All I'll say in regard to breath play being done by medical folks is that every single medical person I know of in the scene, and there are hundreds (them kinky fuckers, LOL), each and every single one of them has backed this article written by Jay.

http://members.aol.com/Oldrope/breath.htm

An excerpt:
Some people teach that choking can be safely done if pressure on the windpipe is avoided. Their belief is that pressing on the arteries leading to the brain while avoiding pressure on the windpipe can safely cause unconsciousness. The reality, unfortunately, is that pressing on the carotid arteries, _exactly_ as they recommend, presses on baroreceptors known as the carotid sinus bodies. These bodies then cause vasodilation in the brain, thus there is not enough blood to perfuse the brain and the recipient loses consciousness. However, that's not the whole story.

Unfortunately, a message is also sent to the main pacemaker of the heart, via the vagus nerve, to decrease the rate and force of the heartbeat. Most of the time, under strong vagal influence, the rate and force of the heartbeat decreases by one third. However, every now and then, the rate and force decreases to zero and the bottom "flatlines" into asystole -- another, and more difficult to treat, form of cardiac arrest. There is no way to tell whether or not this will happen in any particular instance, or how quickly. There are many documented cases of as little as five seconds of choking causing a vagal-outflow-induced cardiac arrest.

For the reason cited above, many police departments have now either entirely banned the use of choke holds or have reclassified them as a form of deadly force. Indeed, a local CHP officer recently had a $250,000 judgment brought against him after a nonviolent suspect died while being choked by him.

As for carotid play that's another limit of mine. I buried one healthy friend in the prime of his life at 29 years of age, when I was 27. He'd been doing carotid play for years, his partner of was a medically trained man, was a surgeon for 31 years, and they'd been doing carotid play without a hitch or ANY indictation anything would ever go wrong. His partner had been doing carotid play for close to 36 years, never had a problem.

*Just a second* .. *gonna give you yummies*. That's ALL it took. Matt never came back - and his life partner was devastated that HE KILLED HIM. Because in fact - he did. It didn't matter that he didin't WANT to or didn't MEAN to, what mattered was Matt wound up in a body bag doing something they'd done for years, and there was never a single sign anything was going wrong - *not a single sign*.

In my book - it's NOT WORTH IT. I sat with his partner for days, rocking him as he whispered over and over in disbelief - it was just yummies ... he just wanted yummies ...

Freaking heart wrenching to watch, and I'd do just about ANYTHING to NOT have to experience that heart wrenching moment from where Matt's partner was experiencing it from.

I've also buried two friends that died from breath play that *went wrong* and consoled THEIR partners (and yes they were *experienced* - as experienced as one *can* be at any rate). I can say from that vantage point - it's not worth the risk for a momentary thrill, not for me, no way in hell.

So yanno you make your own choices.

Me?

I ain't gonna mess with taking a chance I have to put my partner in a bodybag. I care about the people I play with too much to ever remotely risk being the cause of their death, period.

That I have found is quite depressing, and NOT a good way to end a scene.

And yanno, I have NO issue with the "new" scene becoming more PC, if it means less kids get buried and less chance for anguish by the partners that accidentally kill someone they love or care for deeply, I'm all for it.

~ShadeDiva

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RE: Breath Control - 5/22/2004 7:56:01 AM   
proudsub


Posts: 3896
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

I've also buried two friends that died from breath play that *went wrong* and consoled THEIR partners (and yes they were *experienced* - as experienced as one *can* be at any rate). I can say from that vantage point - it's not worth the risk for a momentary thrill, not for me, no way in hell.


IMO that says it all, will never mess with that. Just curious, were the partners ever indicted for manslaughter?

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .


(in reply to ShadeDiva)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Breath Control - 5/22/2004 10:24:51 PM   
Thanatosian


Posts: 688
Joined: 5/10/2004
From: New Castle, PA
Status: offline 		dittos Shade

color me greedy, but I want to keep my sub/slave around for continued play in the future - so I, personally, am not gonna mess with anything that has the potential to cause premature stoppage of my playtime with her.

I have already buried 2 subs (one from epileptic seizure, one from massive stroke) - neither one was in any way shape or form lifestyle and/or scene related and it STILL tore my heart out - I think it might have been worse because they were back to back subs - one right after the other (although 3 years apart) - so I am very chary of any form of play that might deprive me of another.

<stepping off soapbox>

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Apply Usual Caveats Here

An expert is somone who has made all the mistakes there are to be made

(in reply to ShadeDiva)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Breath Control - 5/23/2004 12:26:03 AM   
ShadeDiva


Posts: 999
Joined: 3/31/2004
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub
IMO that says it all, will never mess with that. Just curious, were the partners ever indicted for manslaughter?


One was - in the beginning as I recall, the other was not, but we were concerned about it, he got VERY lucky. Actually they BOTH were. Good lawyers rule. They could have EASILY been facing first degree murder - since the sessions had been premeditated and planned out and there would have been supporting evidence as to that to some degree. Just imagining accidentally killing your partner that you loved deeply, and then having to juggle grief while trying to clear your brain to defend yourself only to fail and wind up in jail - not a good way to end a scene at all in my book.

That's what makes it even more hellish - add in an indictment on top of the grief of losing someone and knowing it was at your hands <shudder>

Just horrible.

Granted these things DID color my perception and I am VERY biased as a result - how could I *not* be? - I know they don't happen all the time, and I know people do it without mishap their entire lives but the risk is real ... the risk is there, and I just cannot and will not take up that risk myself.

What folks choose to do in their lives and with the folks they deal with is their and the people they directly interact with CHOICES - and yanno more power to them and god I hope only the absolute BEST outcome for them!

I'm not gonna judge those that DO take that risk - not my place - but I will say that *I* will not, and give the reasons I have come to that decision.

I do not view folks that do carotid play or strangulation (breath play by means of compression of the throat) play as being dangerous to play with really just that they take a risk that I would not, and that perhaps had they seem some things I'd had seen they might decide differently, but then again, maybe not. I prolly would NOT play with them myself in regard to those particular types of play, but that doesn't mean they won't give a KILLER flogging LOL.

It doesn't make them bad people, or stupid, just different. This is why compatiblity is so damn important, especially in regard as to what risks each person is willing to take and play with and gamble with. As LONG as both partners are fully informed and aware of exactly what those risks ARE and are FINE with taking them - I see no issue with it at all.

It's when they aren't informed or ONE isn't or one is being MISinformed (i.e. a dominant telling a submissive carotid play or strangulation play is completely safe and not to worry they are experts and nothing will happen to them , etc) that I get all pissy and shit. Because it ISN'T completely safe, they can NOT guarantee their safety, health or anything, they can NOT be an expert because there is no such thing as an expert - anyone that could possibly qualify as an expert could accidentally have a "bad scene" after all (hmmm would that then somehow make them *no* an expert?). That is MISinformation, and basing a decision to do such play would not be an informed decision therefore logically they aren't (because they *can't* if they don't really know exactly what they are about to do) really fully consenting with full disclosure.

The only way IMO, one can really and honestly consent to something is when they are making that decision being fully and completely informed as to ANY possible risks, consequences or outcomes that could arise from deciding to take on that path. After all, knowing what could happen and has happened and will happen to folks that have done the same things will NOT deter those that are genuinely into exploring that path - so there is no reason to *pretty it up* or *make it nice* - tell it as it is, and chances are they'll do it anyway of they are into it.

Not ONE of the folks on this site that have expressed interest in dying by strangulation as a fantasy or that actively do strangulation play would ever STOP as a result of this information, but at least when they KNOW it - they are actually fully and completely CONSENTING to it.

So to reiterate ...

I'm not judging those that do that form of play or saying they that do are bad, stupid, uninformed, or dangerous, or even telling folks to NOT do it, just saying, inform yourself and try to actively be as informed as you can be. What you decide to do then is YOUR choice. I'm not a *better* person for deciding I can't personally take that gamble, and those that *do* aren't a *worse* person because they do.

To each their own, and all that.

~ShadeDiva

_____________________________

My projects of love:
theFetishForums
HumanFauna
Kinked
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(in reply to proudsub)
Profile   Post #: 18
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