24/7 power dynamic - how do you define it?

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24/7 power dynamic - how do you define it?

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24/7 power dynamic - how do you define it? - 8/16/2005 8:40:53 AM

AAkasha

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The excellent thread on the "non lifestyler" perspective has generated a lot of interesting thoughts on what constitutes a 24/7 dominant/submissive power dynamic. I'd like to take that even further, to get input on what people think the characteristics are to a dymanic like this -- because it appears the consensus is that there can be a 24/7 power dynamic in a relationship even though they do not actively engage in any BDSM at all, nor do they consciously acknowledge they have a 24/7 dynamic.

The example I used is of the pussywhipped husband, for lack of a better word. The wife really does call the shot and his friends even give him a hard time because they know she wears the pants in the family. She handles the social calendar, she has veto power on sexual intercourse, she basically runs the show -- people can even tell by their body language and how he responds to her.

My question is -- where do you draw the line to define this? What is a non-power exchange then, is it both people being equal (does total equality exist? Every relationship probaby tilts slightly in one direction), or is it when the power dynamic might shift back and forth?

If you think of 10 married couples you know - your parents, your friends, your aunts and uncles, and think about how you perceive their relationships based on what you know and see, can you classify them as M/f or F/m -- who calls the shots? Are any of them 24/7 power exchange, but the couple doesn't even know it?

I think every relationship has a "leader" - but is it a power exchange only if the leader is oppressive (don't mean that in a negative way)? Or is it only a power exchange if the submissive partner actively seeks the affirmation/approval of the dominant partner?

Akasha

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Post #: 1

RE: 24/7 power dynamic - how do you define it? - 8/16/2005 9:15:38 AM

EmeraldSlave2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
My question is -- where do you draw the line to define this? What is a non-power exchange then, is it both people being equal (does total equality exist? Every relationship probaby tilts slightly in one direction), or is it when the power dynamic might shift back and forth?

For me a 24/7 relationship is one in which the dominant has authority in day to day life, with no or few clearly defined "off limits" periods of authority.

I don't think it's Ds just because someone tends to be the dominant role in a relationship. I think there has to be some conscious awareness and agreement for self-fulfillment with everyone involved, though they don't have to CALL it Ds.

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 2

RE: 24/7 power dynamic - how do you define it? - 8/16/2005 9:22:27 AM

Angrylibrarian

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To me it’s about deference to the authority.

90% of my day looks like every body else’s. I can take a girl to meet all my friends and no one has any idea. I can go to company picnics and friendly barbeques and no one has any idea. I have visitors over who don't know the background, all they see is a girlfriend making them and me a magnificent dinner while we talk.

Yet occasionally there still have to be "off times" as emerald is saying or down time or alone time. Why? If there’s almost no visible difference between lifestyles why does there have to be off time? Because both dominant and submissive are in headspace that creates authority with the sanction of discipline and there is deference to it.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 3

RE: 24/7 power dynamic - how do you define it? - 8/16/2005 9:25:15 AM

perverseangelic

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I beileve that it is the CONSENSUAL relationship in which the dominant party is in charge all of the time, sans down time.

I think the key is that the submissive person has -agreed- to this situation. So the "pussywhipped" thing wouldn't apply.

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RE: 24/7 power dynamic - how do you define it? - 8/16/2005 9:33:35 AM

darkangel

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In relationships, I am just myself. So, there is no 'off time'. Is that 24 /7? - Well, personally I dislike that term. But to me, defining 24/7 is people being themself and what they are. Does that mean being submissive 100% of the time? To whom I belong to - yes. But my life doesn't mean I have to be submissive to all 100% of the time.

Being me = 24/7
Peace and Love

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RE: 24/7 power dynamic - how do you define it? - 8/16/2005 9:40:23 AM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

I beileve that it is the CONSENSUAL relationship in which the dominant party is in charge all of the time, sans down time.

I think the key is that the submissive person has -agreed- to this situation. So the "pussywhipped" thing wouldn't apply.

In the "pussywhipped" example I was giving I was envisioning the couple that have that, but are obviously content with it. The guy stays in the relationship for a reason -- he does not leave her, nor does he seek out submissive partners. If the two people don't know what power exchange is, how can they consent to it? By not leaving -- by actively participating -- by allowing the course to continue without roadbumps to throw it off -- that's a form of consent, right? Vanillas don't have a safeword. The sub would say "Stop treating me like this!" if he didn't like it, and then they'd either resolve it or break up. The men in this kind of relationship are drawn to powerful women and get into relationships with them for a reason. It may appear oppressive to the outsider, and the guy may even receive criticism from friends, "Dude, I don't know what you put up with that." The guy doesn't respond, "Yeah, I hate that bitch." He says, "I don't know, I love her."

I'm still mulling over the consent issue. It's a valid point.

Akasha

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RE: 24/7 power dynamic - how do you define it? - 8/16/2005 9:48:24 AM

Angrylibrarian

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One of my friends is in one of those relationships (Maybe even a couple of my friends). I think the concensual part still applies to him except he does seem remarkably embarrassed when he has to check in just in order to go from a bar to a cafe. I think it might be the difference between being dominated (which implies some planning and style in my mind )and his wife just being domineering. She doesnt care why she controls him she just has to. She has no plan for controlling him other then to control him some more. Shes interested in his development only as long as it keeps her in control. I believe that honest brokers in this lifestyle care about the development of themselves and their partners differently.

(in reply to AAkasha)

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RE: 24/7 power dynamic - how do you define it? - 8/16/2005 10:03:36 AM

Faramir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

In the "pussywhipped" example I was giving I was envisioning the couple that have that, but are obviously content with it. The guy stays in the relationship for a reason -- he does not leave her, nor does he seek out submissive partners. If the two people don't know what power exchange is, how can they consent to it? By not leaving -- by actively participating -- by allowing the course to continue without roadbumps to throw it off -- that's a form of consent, right? Akasha

If it was a women who had a domineering husband - say she doesn't leave because of fear, financial reasons, deference to the kid's needs - would you call that Power Exchange?

Is silence consent?

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 8

RE: 24/7 power dynamic - how do you define it? - 8/16/2005 10:21:48 AM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Angrylibrarian

One of my friends is in one of those relationships (Maybe even a couple of my friends). I think the concensual part still applies to him except he does seem remarkably embarrassed when he has to check in just in order to go from a bar to a cafe. I think it might be the difference between being dominated (which implies some planning and style in my mind )and his wife just being domineering. She doesnt care why she controls him she just has to. She has no plan for controlling him other then to control him some more. Shes interested in his development only as long as it keeps her in control. I believe that honest brokers in this lifestyle care about the development of themselves and their partners differently.

So maybe a defining factor is that both partners are at least "aware" that there is a non-traditional dynamic in place and make a choice to keep it. Still, it seems like it can get very complicated, because there may be a lot of "submissive" men who are with "domineering" women and they endure it/deal with it not because they enjoy it, but because it's all they know. Maybe it *is* dysfunctional and unhealthy to some extent, but it's still functional enough that both people stay in it and operate with a reasonable amount of comfort and fulfillment.

And there also might be a lot of couples that have no idea it is going on, but really do actively enjoy it. But if you asked them to define their power dynamic they really would not know exactly what you said -- and even if you presented them the concept of a BDSM type (even minimal) dynamic they'd say that wasn't what they wanted.

Does the dominant partner in a self actualized power exchange relationship "feel" dominant and has a fairly consistent self image that reinforces this? Is that part of it? See, I would never use the word "dominant" or "domineering" as a core personality trait of mine. However, I'd use "assertive," "demanding," and "driven" and "takes initiative". (this is as far as my general personality goes, and has nothing to do with my femdom moments when I am expressing it).

Still, my relationship with my husband would look like a 24/7 power exchange, considering that I make most of the decisions, I'm the one with all the veto power and I will always get my way. Now, when I say that, it sounds almost amusing because I don't actually consider it to be an active choice or something I sought, it just worked out that way because it's how I am. But I am not unreasonable, I don't do things without my partner's consideration and I don't abuse that control. Nor is he submissive by nature or meek as a result. Sometimes I feel as though it's just the natural order of things because I am older and I am the breadwinner. But in thinking more about it by looking at daily examples, I realized he asks me for "permission" to do things, whereas I tell him what I am doing. He generally will make sure I am ok with something (like spending money), while I will just "let him know" I am going to spend it. He may initiate sexual intimacy, and I may deny him if I'm not in the mood. I may inititiate sexual intimacy, and he will never say no (hey, what guy would). He will ask me if it's ok to self pleasure (not because I am controlling his orgasms by default), and I will masturbate at will. He has never told me "No" when I have said I was going to do something or wanted to do something, but he has presented information that swayed me to change my mind. Because I consider him very intelligent, and in many areas completely superior to me (like managing money), it is in my best interest to listen to him. But I still get my way.

But at the same time he has equal say in our relationship (that's why I don't call it a lifestyle TPE, I don't think it is at all), and does not require me to manage him on a daily basis. Neither of us "controls" one another -- I am not going to tell him "No," when he asks to do something unless I don't think it's a good idea and we talk about it and he agrees -- and it goes the same with me.

All things considered, I label our relationship as "equals." But then when I look at it against the criteria of these power exchange scenarios, it almost seems like it's not. Yet, it's not what I sought after or asked for, and it's certainly not something that "gives" me satisfaction -- it's just the way we click.

Akasha

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Post #: 9

RE: 24/7 power dynamic - how do you define it? - 8/16/2005 10:24:28 AM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

In the "pussywhipped" example I was giving I was envisioning the couple that have that, but are obviously content with it. The guy stays in the relationship for a reason -- he does not leave her, nor does he seek out submissive partners. If the two people don't know what power exchange is, how can they consent to it? By not leaving -- by actively participating -- by allowing the course to continue without roadbumps to throw it off -- that's a form of consent, right? Akasha

If it was a women who had a domineering husband - say she doesn't leave because of fear, financial reasons, deference to the kid's needs - would you call that Power Exchange?

Is silence consent?

Right, I made that point just now but used a F/m example. I'm sure there are plenty of non functional relationships that fit right into the 24/7 dynamic, from "a little dysfunctional" all the way to "totally fucked up." Just as a woman might not leave a relationship out of fear or obligation, a man might not leave a domineering woman because he'd feel lost without her and a part of him is too weak to make the move -- he just doesn't know how to have a relationship any other way.

Akasha

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Post #: 10

RE: 24/7 power dynamic - how do you define it? - 8/16/2005 11:38:00 AM

Faramir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
He will ask me if it's ok to self pleasure (not because I am controlling his orgasms by default), and I will masturbate at will. Akasha

If he asks permission to jack off, how can you say you aren't controlling his orgasms?

I just snipped that out as one example - you repeatedly said, "I have X authority, he doesn't, but I'm not really exerting control..."

Sounds like you are in denial!!

Seriously though - maybe you don't have an overt D/s relationship in your marriage - maybe their is no demonstrative symbology, but it sure as shit sounds like D/s.

You are the leader domestically and in intimacy - sounds like Femdom to me.

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 11

RE: 24/7 power dynamic - how do you define it? - 8/16/2005 12:02:27 PM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

Does the dominant partner in a self actualized power exchange relationship "feel" dominant and has a fairly consistent self image that reinforces this? Is that part of it? See, I would never use the word "dominant" or "domineering" as a core personality trait of mine. However, I'd use "assertive," "demanding," and "driven" and "takes initiative". (this is as far as my general personality goes, and has nothing to do with my femdom moments when I am expressing it).

Self-actualization is a big part of it for me. One cannot identify who they are or what they want if they haven't gone through some degree of self-actualisation. So in that perspective, which is quite Cartesian to say the least, if you don't know that you are 24/7 lifestyler power exchange D/s yadda yadda, then you aren't. Others can interpret your dynamic as being, but that doesn't make you that. They can give you the label, but you have not assumed the identity. Identity is a conscious choice.

Now I have an idea what 24/7 power exchange can be.

I have it at work. At no time can I trump my boss. She will listen to my opinion, even often solicit it, she will hear me out and also give me the right to disagree. But once she has made her decision, I have to abide by it. If I don't like it, I'm free to look for other employment. The fact is that I agree with her ways of doing things 95% of the time so I’m quite happy under her authority. She also appreciates my dominant personality and loves that I challenge her (always respectfully of course) because it helps her see other perspectives and make better decisions. She also treats me like a competent adult with a valid opinion and the proper skills to do my job so that helps. Now that is more a 9/5, Mon-Fri power exchange, but nonetheless, I think the comparison applies.

I have had it at home for 18 years when I was living under my parents’ roof. The same rules applied. They validated my opinion and heard me out and took my thoughts and needs into consideration but they had the ultimate authority. They didn’t however appreciate it so much that continuously challenged them. Then again, I wasn’t so diplomatic back then ;-)

In my current power exchange, I am making a conscious choice to stay. In the case where I was in my parents’ care, I didn’t have a choice according to the state. Thankfully for me, it was not an oppressive environment.

Now when I look at my relationships, I do not want the same kind of authority that my boss has or my parents had over me. I want a partnership. I obviously will find a more fulfilling partnership with someone who will let me take the reigns in the majority of instances. But I’m not looking for that boss or parent dynamic.

Now on a more sexual level, within the realms of play, I love being in control. That is an integral part of my sexuality. Whether it’s active control such as tying him up and torturing him or (relatively) passive control such as demanding that he please me, even if that means turning him into a service top, I will get what I want in bed. And for the great majority of my sexual partners, this has been just quite fine by them!

So getting back to the original point, I think the whole concept of 24/7 is kind of misleading. We all ebb and flow and we aren’t always in role. And if we have healthy sleep patterns, we are asleep for 7-9 hours of that 24. So at the very most, 17/7? Ha!

Seriously though, I think the idea of 24/7 brings the challenge of one-upmanship, that is “we keep the act up longer then most”. It isn’t about that.

dark~angel said it beautifully:

quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

In relationships, I am just myself. So, there is no 'off time'. Is that 24 /7? - Well, personally I dislike that term. But to me, defining 24/7 is people being themself and what they are.

- LA

_____________________________

An iron hand in a velvet glove.

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 12

RE: 24/7 power dynamic - how do you define it? - 8/16/2005 12:27:16 PM

Faramir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
So getting back to the original point, I think the whole concept of 24/7 is kind of misleading. We all ebb and flow and we aren’t always in role. And if we have healthy sleep patterns, we are asleep for 7-9 hours of that 24. So at the very most, 17/7? Ha!

Seriously though, I think the idea of 24/7 brings the challenge of one-upmanship, that is “we keep the act up longer then most”. It isn’t about that.

- LA

No - you are merely projecting your experience onto others. You have your own, distinct model of intimacy, and that model doesn't have PE. Your very use of words like "always in role" shows your inability to understand where some of us are at. I'm never in role - I'm just me, and she's just her, and we are as we are, at all times. Asleep I am still me. For you, it would be acting. If you tried to mimic my relationship, you would be in role. For you, there is no such thing as 24/7 PE - because you are someone who has a different form of intimacy. There is nothing wrong about your intimacy or especially virtuous about my form of intimacy - your error here is in thinking because you can't or shouldn't - other's can't.

No my dear, you'll just have to trust that when others say "This is how it is for me" and you just can't conceive it, it is not a matter of them being fools or deceiving themselves. There are people who experience a very different form of intimacy than you do.

Instead of trying to fit other people into your imited box*, accept that there is some diversity in how we experience intimacy.

*My box is limited as well - we can only know what we know. The difference is I'm not extending my specific to the general.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 13

RE: 24/7 power dynamic - how do you define it? - 8/16/2005 12:31:50 PM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

you are merely projecting your experience onto others.

And by the looks of your response to me, you did exactly that yourself. We all do. I am not attempting to do it in a negative way however. I am simply communicating my experience. I am not all up in anyone's face and angry about it. You should try that sometime. It's good for the soul.

quote:

Instead of trying to fit other people into your imited box*, accept that there is some diversity in how we experience intimacy.

Seriously? Have you read any of my posts? Do you really perceive me as someone who puts people in limited boxes? No but really Faramir...

I think it's more a question of you completely misinterpreting the whole point of my post.

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 8/16/2005 12:36:35 PM >

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RE: 24/7 power dynamic - how do you define it? - 8/16/2005 1:24:53 PM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
He will ask me if it's ok to self pleasure (not because I am controlling his orgasms by default), and I will masturbate at will. Akasha

If he asks permission to jack off, how can you say you aren't controlling his orgasms?

I just snipped that out as one example - you repeatedly said, "I have X authority, he doesn't, but I'm not really exerting control..."

Sounds like you are in denial!!

Seriously though - maybe you don't have an overt D/s relationship in your marriage - maybe their is no demonstrative symbology, but it sure as shit sounds like D/s.

You are the leader domestically and in intimacy - sounds like Femdom to me.

No, if he asks for permission to jack off it doesn't mean I am controlling his orgasms 24/7 -- because I'm not going to say "No." It's pretty much that simple. However, when I am *in* my femdom mode, doing my *thing* -- then I AM controlling his orgasms, and he damn well isn't going to have one until I say so -- and I feel the difference in that. That may be over a period of one weekend, or maybe I'm enjoying a longer extended thing over a weekend or several days on vacation.

I think after reading LadyAngelika's post she has helped clarify it for me more. The word she uses -- "partnership" -- is better. It might not seem like that since he generally defers to me on just about everything; the point is, though, we never disagree. That is to say, we don't argue (beyond a simple debate), we never have come to a point on anything where I say "It must be my way, period." I never have had to oppress him, nor has he had to oppress me.

The other thing that is more clear to me now is that what we're really talking about here is devotion. When two people are devoted to each other and are in a relationship that is a partnership, they are constantly taking the other person's needs/wants/feelings into consideration. When he asks me for something, I generally do anything in my power to give it to him, even if requires compromise on my part. That does not make me submissive to him.

The fact that he generally is the one asking me for 'permission' for things is more a symptom of our age, his polite nature, and my slightly more "ambitious" personality. The reason that he asks a lot of questions during the day as needed is because technically I am his employer and he works for me, and he doesn't just think "well, hell, I'm the husband so I can just slack off right now and go cycle for 2 hours" -- he asks me if that's ok.

When I compare this all to my "mindset" when I am actually *dominating* my partner, it's quite different. I am 100% completely selfish, feeding my own needs, not that interested in the idea of compromise, and driven by my own sensual, erotic need for fetish play and nasty games.

Akasha

_____________________________

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(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 15

RE: 24/7 power dynamic - how do you define it? - 8/16/2005 2:00:15 PM

la90066

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How do I define it? That's easy...

"I am Thor the Viking Love God... Supreme Ruler... All tremble in my presence..."

ha ha ha!!! (I'm such a DORK today?!!)

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 16

RE: 24/7 power dynamic - how do you define it? - 8/16/2005 3:35:34 PM

anthrosub

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I think all relationships have a leader and a follower. But in most cases, the roles change depending on the context of the moment. Obviously, each person has strengths and weaknesses that give them an inherent advantage over the other and it would be unwise to ignore this resource simply for the sake of maintaining control. To use an over simplified example...if you're behind the wheel of a car, you're the driver making the important decisions.

When it comes to this lifestyle, things are put more on the table in terms of who's the boss instead of simply assuming roles that change in fluid situations. I think one of the attractions to engaging in the lifestyle is making it work seamlessly as those involved go through their day to day activities. It's much more rewarding than scripting out some "BDSM" time together. Therefore, the line is draw at the point where it starts to break down. If the people spend enough time together, this line gets pushed ahead with experience.

anthrosub

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Post #: 17

RE: 24/7 power dynamic - how do you define it? - 8/16/2005 4:22:50 PM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

When it comes to this lifestyle, things are put more on the table in terms of who's the boss instead of simply assuming roles that change in fluid situations. I think one of the attractions to engaging in the lifestyle is making it work seamlessly as those involved go through their day to day activities. It's much more rewarding than scripting out some "BDSM" time together. Therefore, the line is draw at the point where it starts to break down. If the people spend enough time together, this line gets pushed ahead with experience.

anthrosub

That is an interesting way to put it and in that context, I can see it as being part of a bigger lifestyle.

- LA

_____________________________

An iron hand in a velvet glove.

(in reply to anthrosub)

Post #: 18

RE: 24/7 power dynamic - how do you define it? - 8/16/2005 5:56:42 PM

vishant

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quote:

My question is -- where do you draw the line to define this? What is a non-power exchange then, is it both people being equal (does total equality exist? Every relationship probaby tilts slightly in one direction), or is it when the power dynamic might shift back and forth?

With my look on relationships out there a healthy relationship needs a balance. Personally with my parents(as an example) my mother wears the pants at home. but they work together and my Father is in charge but as soon as they enter the house the power exchange is to my mother again.

With me and my g/f and or sub. Day to day stuff she controls but in play the power exchange is to me. We have found this to be a somewhatly equal balance that feeds both our needs. Where one needs to be strong the other needs to weaken.

vishant

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 19

RE: 24/7 power dynamic - how do you define it? - 8/17/2005 8:23:56 PM

GentleLady

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quote:

The example I used is of the pussywhipped husband, for lack of a better word. The wife really does call the shot and his friends even give him a hard time because they know she wears the pants in the family. She handles the social calendar, she has veto power on sexual intercourse, she basically runs the show -- people can even tell by their body language and how he responds to her.

My question is -- where do you draw the line to define this? What is a non-power exchange then, is it both people being equal (does total equality exist? Every relationship probaby tilts slightly in one direction), or is it when the power dynamic might shift back and forth?

If you think of 10 married couples you know - your parents, your friends, your aunts and uncles, and think about how you perceive their relationships based on what you know and see, can you classify them as M/f or F/m -- who calls the shots? Are any of them 24/7 power exchange, but the couple doesn't even know it?

I think every relationship has a "leader" - but is it a power exchange only if the leader is oppressive (don't mean that in a negative way)? Or is it only a power exchange if the submissive partner actively seeks the affirmation/approval of the dominant partner?

This is the same question as asking what the differences are between My first marriage and My current marriage.

The first one would be more accurately described as My husband being pussy-whipped (and he was indeed called this). I had ultimate control over all aspects of the relationship. The marriage had most of the elements involved in a power exchange and included flogging, cbt, wax, humiliation, pain, nipple torture, caning, and some ass play. In hindsight I would identify My husband as having a submissive personality. However, I would not describe the marriage as a power exchange within wiitwd because neither of us knew anything about BDSM. Although the power dynamic was present, consenuality was missing and so was communication. The fighting over issues was constant. He never consciously and voluntarily handed control over to Me. He preferred to not make decisions in most areas of life but the arguments still went on. For example: he was horrid with managing the finances so I would. I would get things evened out and then he would demand the financial control back and run the finances into the ground. He would then dump them in My lap to fix again. This marriage lasted 13 years btw and then died from a lack of communication.

My current marriage contains the same basic elements as the first one. The difference is that this time My husband knows he is submissive and has made a choice to hand the control over to Me. The finances stay in My hands. I will not micro-manage someone and detest arguments (although I love discussions).

Another difference however is that I am not the same person. This time I know that I can give free rein to My Dominant nature and I have learned how to deal with issues/problems as they arise instead of letting them build to the point of explosion.

Gentle Lady

_____________________________

All things are possible to those who have patience, try, and are willing to learn.

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 20

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> 24/7 power dynamic - how do you define it?

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